Just to get some sort of discussion going here..

Beats McCain who makes no attempt to hide at town hall meetings and such that he's reading directly from a paper of talking points he probably didn't write. Haha
 
True, but do you honestly think Obama writes his own material?

My opinion, but Obama is a paper tiger.


Well i'm almost one hundred percent sure he wrote that convention speech and his other major speeches.

But yeah i don't know, i think he's the real deal. Or as much of the real deal as a man whose job requires him to lie can be.
 
Well i'm almost one hundred percent sure he wrote that convention speech and his other major speeches.

But yeah i don't know, i think he's the real deal. Or as much of the real deal as a man whose job requires him to lie can be.

I am 100% certain that both McCain and Obama have speechwriters. They'd be foolish not to.

But, regardless of who wins, unprecedented history is being made this year, and that's exciting to watch. I just hope that whatever change happens that it's for the better. I am not too thrilled about Obama's energy policies. And I am not too impressed with McCain's charisma and speaking skills. If we were voting for the best orator, Obama would win hands down. But we're not. There are too many other factors to consider.

I don't think the focus this election is going to hover too much longer around McCain and Obama. The hall chatter is now shifting to Biden versus Palin. I believe Obama hurt his campaign with Biden and McCain helped his with Palin.

Tough decision. But I do agree that Obama gave a great speech.
 
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I believe Obama hurt his campain with Biden and McCain helped his with Palin.

I'm not too thrilled with Biden either but i don't think there was a right pick, every person on his short list had pros and cons.

As for Palin though, in my opinion; it's a terrible decision.

Sure, it gave his campaign more coverage than it's ever really gotten, but being 72 years old and battling skin cancer throughout his life, it's a terrible decision to pick someone so inexperienced to be next in line for the presidency.

And besides, if Obama had picked Hilary to be his vice president, McCain would never have picked Palin because in my opinion, it's just an attempt to attract women to his campaign and make it out as if his campaign is the one who understands their struggles.
 
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Sure, it gave his campaign more coverage than it's ever really gotten, but being 72 years old and battling skin cancer throughout his life, it's a terrible decision to pick someone so inexperienced to be next in line for the presidency.

...

That's very interesting. If you say that about Palin, then you must say that about Obama himself, huh? ;)

Honestly, I am not happy about either pair, but it is what it is and this is not going to be an easy decision. I am still leaning on McCain/Palin, though, because I strongly believe the only way out of this energy crisis is additional oil production at home and not sending billions of dollars out of the country to continually empower our enemies. It's silly because drilling at the intercontinental shelf is going to happen regardless (China/Cuba), so the environmentalists have no tenable position. And if Clinton hadn't vetoed it before during his presidency, we'd already be reaping the benefits.

And those who think all we need to do is inflate our tires and blanket the land with windmills and solar panels simply do not understand that every, and I mean EVERY thing we take for granted in this day and age exists as a result of petroleum products. And that even goes for what it would take to construct the windmills and solar panels. And no one is talking about the cost to build and deploy and maintain enough solar and wind equipment to power the nation. And they surely won't fly you or drive you and your groceries anywhere, either.

Electricity, hydrogen, fusion, fission, photovoltaic - all of these are viable alternatives to gasoline, and we do need to continue research and development of these alternative fuels. This is a long-term goal (50+ years). Short term, we need more oil production. No way around it. And California is the worst offender yet the loudest opponent. Go figure.

More of everything is the answer. And the best way for this country to get out of this economic slump is to become independent when it comes to energy. This is the primary reason I am leaning towards the McCain camp. That, and I am already paying enough taxes. I'm in a high enough bracket where I would be hurt by some of Obama's tax plans. Not too excited about that, either. Take away that which empowers the rich to hire the poor, and there will be less jobs and less incentive to create jobs.
 
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Well as far as experience goes, Obama has gotten a lot done in a short time as a senator and has shown judgment that a lot of much longer tenured senators do not have; such as opposing the Iraq war since the beginning.

Also, although i'm not all that excited about Biden, he does have a lot of experience especially in foreign policy and i think he nicely fills alot of the gaps Obama might have experience-wise.

What is evident though, is that we come from different age groups, so while the economy is one of your primary concerns in selecting a candidate; it is an issue that i cannot easily relate to because it does not directly affect me.

And i'm not going to act as if i know alot about the economy, because i don't. And it is something that i'm trying learn more about.

One of the issues that is very important to me when comparing the two candidates, however, is the War and world security.

In my opinion, McCain has a record of being very supportive of military action that was proven to be misguided and harmful to not only world safety but our reputation in the international community. And if he is elected i think he will continue to carry out a failed foreign policy that bombs first and asks questions later.


All that being said, doesn't anyone else on indietalk have anything to add, this is becoming a two person conversation rather than a community discussion.
 
Yes, we are clearly on different sides, so there's no point in continuing the discussion because you will not like what I have to say. ;)

And I doubt many will pipe in because right now the Obama/McCain/War debate is hot and there are many on both sides of the fence, even within my own family. Fact of life.

Two things that folks will never agree on: religion and politics.

Just remember, every man and woman in the military is there voluntarily. There was no draft. Freedom is not free.
 
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Beats McCain who makes no attempt to hide at town hall meetings and such that he's reading directly from a paper of talking points he probably didn't write. Haha

Should a public speaker, any public speaker, make an attempt to hide the
fact that they have not memorized their entire speech? Should a public
speaker, any public speaker, at a meeting never use notes of any kind?

Should a candidate for president never have speech writers. Even for talking
points?

I don't understand what your point is here. Have you ever seen film or
tape any of the great public addresses Kennedy gave? He is constantly
looking at notes and his primary speech writer, Ted Sorensen, put most
of the eloquent words in Kennedy's mouth.
 
I don't think the focus this election is going to hover too much longer around McCain and Obama. The hall chatter is now shifting to Biden versus Palin. I believe Obama hurt his campaign with Biden and McCain helped his with Palin.

I think McCain's selection of Palin is the smoking gun of the bigoted neo-conservative mindset bubbling to the surface. Obama didn't pick Hillary, so McCain is trying to capitalize on the female voter's desire for women in high-power politics by appointing a lady he's barely met and we've barely heard of until now. It shows that the "old boys" think about women as easily swayed and sexist- that they would swap from a democratic Hillary to her based solely on her sex to.... what kind of person is this Palin anyway?

From Wikipedia:

Palin is pro-life, pro-contraception, and a prominent member of Feminists for Life.[80][24] In 2002, while running for lieutenant governor, Palin called herself as "pro-life as any candidate can be."[24] She opposes abortion even for rape and incest victims.[81] Palin opposes same-sex marriage.[24] She supported a non-binding referendum for a constitutional amendment to deny benefits to gay couples.[82] Palin has stated that she supported the 1998 constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage.[24] Alone among the candidates in the 2006 gubernatorial election, Palin said in a televised debate that she supported teaching creationism alongside evolution in public schools, but the next day modified her position to one of allowing the debate of alternative views.[83] She has admitted that she tried marijuana, but she does not support legalization, stating concerns about the message it would send to her children.[24]

Palin has strongly promoted oil and natural gas resource development in Alaska, including opening the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge to drilling.[31] She does not believe that global warming is man-made.[33] She opposed listing of the polar bear as an endangered species,[84] and supported a controversial predator-control program involving aereal hunting of wolves.[85]

Palin is a life member of the National Rifle Association, and is popular among gun rights activists. She is a strong proponent of the Second Amendment, and supports gun safety education for youth.[86]

According to Time, Palin's foreign policy positions were not clear at the time she was picked, but she has been critical of the lack of a long-term strategy on the war in Iraq.[87]

Hmmm... so she opposes abortion for rape/incest victims, same-sex marriage, wants to teach creationism in schools, has smoked weed but doesn't want to legalize it (hypocrite), she wants to put big oil companies into a wildlife reserve, isn't worried about the environment in regards to global warming and HATES polar bears and wolves enough to hunt them down with gas-powered helicopters. Wow- sounds like a balanced person. I'm sure her and McCain would probably agree on a lot of things.

And upon the nomination:

Palin's selection came as something of a surprise. Indeed, McCain had only met Palin six months earlier at a meeting of the National Governors Association. He'd only spoken with her about the position once, on the Sunday before he formally offered it to her.

Does that sound like someone experienced enough for the job of VP? Or does it sound like McCain's party playing a new level of cheap politics?

Personally, I think Obama made a good move taking someone like Biden to balance himself. McCain just found a girl who could tow the party line to take advantage of Hillary's absence. I'm not an American, but I'd be FURIOUS at how stupid your politicians seem to think you people are. They do the same thing in Canadian politics, but at least it's witty and subtle jabs under the surface.... American politics is like hitting people over the heads with blunt objects.
 
Should a public speaker, any public speaker, make an attempt to hide the
fact that they have not memorized their entire speech? Should a public
speaker, any public speaker, at a meeting never use notes of any kind?

Should a candidate for president never have speech writers. Even for talking
points?

I don't understand what your point is here. Have you ever seen film or
tape any of the great public addresses Kennedy gave? He is constantly
looking at notes and his primary speech writer, Ted Sorensen, put most
of the eloquent words in Kennedy's mouth.

I wasn't trying to make any point. I just think it is a stark contrast, a humorous one, when you watch an Obama speech and then watch a McCain speech. I was in no way trying to say that this says anything about a candidates credentials or any thing like that. I was just responding to VP stating that Obama would be nothing without a teleprompter. I was saying John McCain has no speaking skills.

But for the record, John McCain is in no way saying anything close to eloquent in any of his speeches.;)
 
I think McCain's selection of Palin is the smoking gun of the bigoted neo-conservative mindset bubbling to the surface. Obama didn't pick Hillary, so McCain is trying to capitalize on the female voter's desire for women in high-power politics by appointing a lady he's barely met and we've barely heard of until now. It shows that the "old boys" think about women as easily swayed and sexist- that they would swap from a democratic Hillary to her based solely on her sex to.... what kind of person is this Palin anyway?

No doubt this is political posturing. How successful it will be remains to be seen. I hadn't heard much about her, either, and was confused when I heard the announcement. That pick wasn't even on my radar.

Hmmm... so she opposes abortion for rape/incest victims, same-sex marriage, wants to teach creationism in schools, has smoked weed but doesn't want to legalize it (hypocrite), she wants to put big oil companies into a wildlife reserve, isn't worried about the environment in regards to global warming and HATES polar bears and wolves enough to hunt them down with gas-powered helicopters. Wow- sounds like a balanced person. I'm sure her and McCain would probably agree on a lot of things.

Clinton didn't want to legalize it either, and he didn't inhale. Nothing new here.

Nothing wrong with her being pro-life. I'm pro-choice. I disagree with the no abortion for rape/incest. But the availability of abortion will not change in our lifetime and, thus, is not going to make much difference this election.

As far as Global Warming, one must first buy into the simple fact that what we are dealing with is man-made and not cyclical. Nature does more damage to itself and repairs itself faster than we possibly could. But this is a whole different argument. The Arctic ice sheet is growing and ice between Canada and Greenland has also been expanding.

And have you seen the pictures of the proposed drilling spot in ANWAR? It's wasteland. Go look at it on Google Earth. The pictures they show on the news are nowhere near the proposed sites.

I don't drink Al Gore's Kool-Aid. ;)

Does that sound like someone experienced enough for the job of VP? Or does it sound like McCain's party playing a new level of cheap politics?

I've already commented about "experienced" versus not. Clinton wasn't experienced as he himself argued. But I do not believe it is cheap politics. Questionable, yes. Welcome to American Politics 101.

Personally, I think Obama made a good move taking someone like Biden to balance himself. McCain just found a girl who could tow the party line to take advantage of Hillary's absence. I'm not an American, but I'd be FURIOUS at how stupid your politicians seem to think you people are. They do the same thing in Canadian politics, but at least it's witty and subtle jabs under the surface.... American politics is like hitting people over the heads with blunt objects.

You'd be surprised at how many people flock to candidates just because they are smooth talkers. You can't believe 90% of what they promise, anyway. The president is not all-powerful. The U.S. is not a dictatorship.

The next few months are going to be very interesting. For the next few days, though, my eyes are locked on Gustav.
 
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I was just responding to VP stating that Obama would be nothing without a teleprompter. I was saying John McCain has no speaking skills.

But for the record, John McCain is in no way saying anything close to eloquent in any of his speeches.;)

I did not say he was nothing. You take away his teleprompter, and he's often a deer in the headlights. He is just as dependent on those written words as McCain is, perhaps even more so.
 
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