Shot list, what shots to write down?

Krenzathal said:

Say I have a medium shot of two characters talking and then it cuts to a close up for a bit and then back to the wide shot.

Should that be written own as three separate shots even though I'll just be cutting back to the same shot after the close up and it won't really be new?

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I make my shotlist the way I picture the edited movie. It depends on the chronology and detail:

1. M.S. of Zak and Lily on park bench.
Zak takes out the ring.

2. C.U. of Lily
"Damn that's a huge diamond!"

3. C.U. of Zak (intercut)
"It's not for you, but I wanted your opinion."

4. L.S. of car skidding to a stop.
Zak's other girlfriend, Karen, gets out and approaches.

5. Same as Shot #1.
Zak and Lily watch Karen.

6. C.U. of the ring.
Zak puts the ring in his pocket.


That's me. Honestly, 2 and 3 can intercut repeatedly, as they are the same setup. Same with #5; it is the same setup as shot #1, but I like to note the action.

Thanks for the reply.

I was considering some sort of code for the shots so I could just slot them in as needed as there's only about 3 camera angles in my scene but they are cut to multiple times.

If it's just done as it plays out then that's fine, I just wanted to know how it's usually done.

Thanks for the advice!

I've just finished the script for my short film and I'm now in the process of doing a shot list

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Is this your first film?

I have a question about what exactly I should be writing down

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There are multiple ways to do most jobs. Shot listing is no different. For the cast and crew to know what you're shooting, there's often a combination of multiple documentation. A shot list, storyboards, technical storyboards (top down diagrams of the scene) and so on. Not everyone uses all of the tools.

The way that I do it is I list the shots.

For instance:

Scene 4:
WS
MS Actor 1
CU Actor 1
MS Actor 2
CU Actor 2
Insert Taking wallet out of pocket
MS Reaction shot from bar patrons
MS Reaction Bartender
CU Bartener making a drink

etc. etc.

You'll see there's two types of shots. One that lasts the entire scene (unspecified) and those that mark out a certain action or a specific line.

There's no need to decide right now the order of the cuts in the shot list, the editor will often decide that (with you, assuming you're the director). If you're going to attempt to do that, do it elsewhere. Here, you're creating a list of shots that give you the most efficient options in post production for the least amount of effort for the cast and crew.

there's only about 3 camera angles in my scene but they are cut to multiple times

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The shot list is to help you decide whether there is only 3 shots or not. About 3 shots is often very different to 3 shots. Shot lists are used to be one way communicate to the crew what you'll be shooting.

I just wanted to know how it's usually done.

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Last suggestion. Don't worry too much how it's done. Work out what will best work for you and your team.

Krenzathal said:

I was considering some sort of code for the shots so I could just slot them in as needed as there's only about 3 camera angles in my scene but they are cut to multiple times.

If it's just done as it plays out then that's fine, I just wanted to know how it's usually done.

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The "sort of code" that is usually used is scene number, camera angle
and number of takes. This is different from the pre-production shot list.

For
example: Scene 22 is Bob and Mary sitting at a table - it’s three
pages long. You will set up the “Master Shot” - both people at the
table, camera getting a head to foot shot of both of them. On your
slate you will write “Scene 22 - Take 1”

Scene 22 - This will be the entire scene from one angle.

Adjust the lights, move the camera and shoot Bob’s side of the
table.

Scene 22A - Close up of Bob.
Scene 22B - Over Mary’s shoulder on Bob.
Scene 22C - A slow dolly push in on Bob - from a full shot into a
close up.
Scene 22D - an insert shot of Bob lighting a cigarette.
Scene 22E - a close up on Bob’s hand putting the cigarette in the
ash tray.
Scene 22F - a close up of Bob taking the contract, looking at it
and signing it (from Mary’s point of view)

Now move the lights, move the camera and shoot Mary’s side of the
table.

Scene 22G - Close up of Mary.
Scene 22H - Over Bob’s shoulder on Mary.
Scene 22J - A slow dolly push in on Mary - from a full shot into a
close up.
Scene 22K - an insert shot of Mary putting the contract on the
table.
Scene 22L - a close up on Mary’s hand snuffing out the cigarette
in the ash tray.
Scene 22M - a close up shot of Mary putting the contract on the
table, putting a pen on the contract and pushing it to the middle
of the table.
Scene 22P - a close up of Bob taking the contract, looking at it
and signing it (from Bob’s point of view)

And this goes on and on until the entire scene is covered. You can
shoot as few as three angles:
22 - master
22A - CU
22B - CU
Then cut as you want. The more coverage you have the more choices
you have in editing.

Thanks for all the replies folks!

Yes this is my first short. I wrote it, am producing it and planning to direct as well. Of course at this stage it's all just a bit of fun for me but I do have quite a 'get it right first time' attitude and as long as I know what the standard is I'm happy to bend things to suit myself.

What I've gone with is made up a shot list where the camera angles are given numbers and the numbers are allocated letters when run through the chronological shots.

So if a wide shot is used to start with it will be 1.a and if it cuts to a close up of a particular actor will be 2.a but if it cuts back to the wide shot I used to start with but is later on in the script it will be 1.b and so on.

This might be over complicating things but it seems to work for my brain and I tore through a whole spreadsheet in about 10 minutes making my shot list with it.

I'm now on to previz using Frameforge as I can't draw which is fun so hopefully trying to find actors and actresses will be just as enjoyable!

You should definitely think about the editing before hand.. but I think of a shot list this way..

a piece of paper you can hand to someone else, and they can make a little check mark next to each shot as you get it. this way you can make sure you don't miss anything.

Having a bunch of edits on that piece of paper is going to make it a lot more confusing.

don't forget to shoot some impromptu shots whenever you need to.

If you get a good idea on the spot, go with it

Sweetie said:

There's no need to decide right now the order of the cuts in the shot list, the editor will often decide that (with you, assuming you're the director).

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By and large, that is the way it's done. But, if you are going to make the movie on the page, you visualize the sequence. Many of the best filmmakers do. Hitchcock drew every angle. He said the actual filmmaking part was tedious, because he already saw the movie on the page and had it in his head. Same with Spielberg, RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK being a prime example.

I'm just writing down what I'm visualizing from the script. It helps me figure out elements, including FX, moves, and angles that I might otherwise forget, particularly cutaways - dog licking, clock ticking, toes on carpet - props, and backgrounds that I didn't even know I needed, until in the editing room, wishing I had extra shots.

The shotlist also helps plan scene transitions - getting IN and OUT of scenes, as well as connecting them. For example: In HIGHLANDER, there are several transitions between time periods. One shot shows a modern aquarium. The camera booms up, but it comes out of a lake, in the past. Two different shots with a seamless transition.

In EVIL DEAD 2, Ash swings his shovel and decapitates his girlfriend. Her head rolls right at the camera, blacking out the frame. Cut to shovel (which is also blacking out the frame), and gets pulled back.

I think animated movies are consistently strong, because of they are heavily storyboarded and pre-visualized.

sfoster said:

I think of a shot list this way...

a piece of paper you can hand to someone else, and they can make a little check mark next to each shot as you get it. this way you can make sure you don't miss anything.
a bunch of edits on that piece of paper is going to make it a lot more confusing.

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Yes, it is a checklist. Usually a set full of people, with all the actors in your face, asking questions, takes you out of the mindset of the shots and sequence. Despite all the distractions, you are able to just check the shots off.

Regarding a bunch of edits, I don't give a new number to shots that are the same setup. I either label them "SAME AS" or in a situation where there are several of the same angle, I may just write "M.C. of actors - intercut." The idea of "pre-edited" is visualization and is no different from storyboards. Put a bunch of frames on a paper and you have an edited sequence, even if it is rough.


And, finally, this can be just as important....

mussonman said:

don't forget to shoot some impromptu shots whenever you need to.

If you get a good idea on the spot, go with it

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This is the best of both worlds! This is where STAGECOACH wins the Oscar for cinematography, because John Ford decided to shoot during the thunderstorm.

The page is the guideline, but the location on the page is often different than the set or location I actually walk on to. If there is a bug or animal doing something interesting, I try to incorporate it.

My actors often stop and look at me, because I don't always say, "Cut!" I tell them, "Don't look at me. Stay in charactrer." That's because there are often scenes (especially basic sexual tension) where an actor an actress are "acting," but when they think the scene is over, they stop acting and sometimes say and do something totally natural, like a nervous laugh. I want the camera to stay rolling, when that happens.