Figuring out a budget

Without knowing any other story particulars, it'd be pretty hard to say. But features have been made for less than a quarter mil.

Does that figure include your post production costs, and advertising budget as well?

Based solely on the information provided (which is not much), given a budget of $250k, I really don't see any reason you couldn't hire one or two 'name' actors and pay them scale rate. That would give you a more realistic shot of being able to at least break even on the production. I find it rather unlikely that a cast full of unknowns will get enough traction to break even or profit, there are always exceptions... But why shoot yourself in the foot from the get-go if other options are/might be available to you?

Especially considering how much you're planning to do yourself, there's no reason the budget would need to be anywhere near that. If, instead, you want to actually make a film, like most people make films, and you know.. get a crew, etc. That budget is almost certainly still doable, even with a name actor or two involved. $250k is a lot of money.

But, again... without a proper script breakdown, etc.. impossible to answer this accurately. I'd suggest finding yourself a solid producer. Crunching the numbers is their job.. one of their jobs anyway.

Thanks for the quick response, Will. No, that does not include advertising. Please feel free to ask me anything you want to know about the story.

EDIT:
Sorry, I guess that a bit obtuse. I really just don't know what else you would need to know that I didn't post. Please don't let that come across as being rude, I do't mean it that way. I just kind of think I covered everything already. What do you see as some things that would drastically change the cost?

The kids will probably be the toughest part. You need to find some with the talent & experience to give you the performance you're looking for, & parents willing to let them go that dark. You'll probably do best with young-looking kids who are actually a bit older.

This is one more "how long is a piece of string" type of question.

Biographies can be tough. Is it a period piece? Even something 10 or 20 years ago - and biopics tend to cover a lot of ground - can call for very specific wardrobe, H/MU, vehicles, interior decor, technology, etc. You may have to spend lots of money or huge amounts of time on this.

Action - anything from moving vehicles to riots and anything and everything in-between - will take more preproduction, more set time and more audio post. Fine, you mentioned it's mostly interiors, but even a "simple" fist fight will call for stunts, extra rehearsal, stunt people and various safety concerns.

Have you really completely thought through your audio post needs? It's A LOT more involved than most people think; it can easily eat up 10% to 20% of your projected budget.

I'm trying to go low budget production here. There won't be any special effects/cgi, no gunplay, no extravagant exterior locations. One thing that will be complicated however is I need to work with children. There are important elements in the story that take place when the lead is about 5 years old.

The lead goes through a lot of abuse, sexual, physical, and verbal. I'm going to try and make it as brutal and "real" as possible.

I imagine I will need insurance for the kids at least

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Nope. It's odd to insure for the kid and not the entire production.

and possibly a child psychologist to be on set during these scenes? I surely don't want to traumatize any young kids, but I have seen this type of thing done before, so there must be some way of making it work.

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Nope. Actors are actors. You shouldn't do anything that would require a kid to go to therapy. That's reckless and hostile working environment.

Perhaps someone here has seen it done and could shed some light?

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Do clean shots with the kids as much as possible. Use a Stand for dirty shots of the kid vs adult shots. Unless you're shooting all kids, then you're screwed.

I'm hoping I can do the whole thing for $250,000 or less. Is that close at all?

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It's impossible to say without A). looking at the script and B). Spending a lot of time breaking it down, talking with the director (and possibly the DOP) as to shot choices. The problem with kids is the limited work day length. The younger they are, the less they can work each day.

As Alcove said, there's also post production costs, but those don't alter too much with the age issues.

Yes, you can make a movie for $250k. Can you make your movie? It's impossible to tell without knowing a lot more. I suggest you hire a line producer or read a book on budgeting and determine it yourself.

inkexit said:

I'm hoping I can do the whole thing for $250,000 or less. Is that close at all?

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Yes. You can make a movie for $250,000.

You need to do a complete breakdown of your script; exactly how
many actors, exactly how many days they are needed and exactly
how much you will be paying them. Put together a shoot schedule
first - exactly how many days you will be shooting. Look up the
child labor laws in ILL to see how many hours you can work the
child actors. This will impact your schedule.

Put together a list of each location you need and how many days
you will be at each location.

You're trying to figure out a ballpark number and you have a reasonable
one in $250,000. Now you need to get specific. Do your research and
put together a shooting schedule. Then we can help you with crew
costs.

I'm going to suggest that on a $250,000 budget you should have more
than three people making it. You want to dress a warehouse to look like
an art supply store and then a night club. Who is going to do that. You?
Alone? You are going to rent all set dressing and props and transport
these items to the warehouse and set them up? You and the DP and the
audio guy? How many days to you think it will take to dress those sets?
You won't be shooting as you do that work so that will impact your
shooting schedule.

Who will move the equipment from location to location? Even if you are
using only five lights and c-stands you will severely impact your shooting
schedule if you and the DP and audio guy are moving equipment.

Just something to consider.

with $250,000 you can afford an actual crew and you will save your self headache and stress.

Good feature films can be made nowadays for $10,000 - $30,000. I did it this way with the skeleton crew you described, and it was too much work for me.

inkexit said:

I'm hoping I can do the whole thing for $250,000 or less. Is that close at all?

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That could be a perfectly fine budget but actually isn't the important question! The important question is; do you want/need to get that $250k investment back or are you OK with loosing the vast majority of it? If the answer is "yes", you do need to earn back the investment, then the question is; how do you plan to earn back that investment? The answer to this question will indicate whether $250k is an appropriate ballpark budget or way off the mark.

G

Thank you all for the replies, they have been very helpful!

I guess it would be easier and perhaps cheaper to find an arts supply store and a music club that would let me shoot during hours they are closed. Of course there is the problem of what if no stores/clubs want to give me permission?

I still think I want to go with unknown actors. Surely Chicago must be filled with talent undiscovered actors. The only name actor I can think of is Forrest Whitaker, and I'm sure he makes at least $1M per picture. I understand how a name will create box office draw, but that's more money I have to pay the actor, and I'll probably have to pay a casting company to help me find one. I just planning on holding open auditions for a few days, is that a bad idea? How much would you pay unknown actors for a 6 week shoot? I really have no idea -- $1,000? $10,000?

Also, how much would a good DP cost? Again I know it's impossible to give an exact figure.

I like the idea of having a decent sized crew (not too big though, Kubrick worked with small crews and we all know how great his films turned out) but if I go after a name actor, a great DP, pay for insurance, film permits, fees to location owners, camera/lens rentals, catering, etc, I'm just not sure how much I would have left over. I mean nowadays they consider $5M to be lowbudget, there must be reasons for that.

And finally, how would I go about finding a good producer? I imagine I can't just find one whose work I like and email them. I'm sure they get hundreds of emails a day. Would I have to go through their agent? (Do producers usually have agents?) Would I have to fly out to wherever they are and try to talk to them in person?

Thanks again for all the help. I know I'm asking a lot of questions and not giving much info. I will try to work on that. I guess I just don't know what I don't know.

inkexit said:

I guess it would be easier and perhaps cheaper to find an arts supply store and a music club that would let me shoot during hours they are closed. Of course there is the problem of what if no stores/clubs want to give me permission?

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You have a lot of work to do. Set your shoot dates then go around asking
art supply stores and music clubs if they will allow you to shoot and how
much they will charge. Give yourself three to five months – just make
sure you know the exact number of days and the number of hours you
need to be in there. If no one will give you permission then you will need
to get creative.

inkexit said:

I just planning on holding open auditions for a few days, is that a bad idea? How much would you pay unknown actors for a 6 week shoot? I really have no idea -- $1,000? $10,000?

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Holding auditions is a great idea! Unknown actors will work for anywhere
from a few hundred per week to a few thousand. So figure $1,000 per
week for the leads and then $500 down to $300 for smaller parts that
require less commitment.

inkexit said:

Also, how much would a good DP cost? Again I know it's impossible to give an exact figure.

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A good DP with equipment will cost anywhere from $1,200 per week to
$5,000 per week. Consider bumping up an experienced gaffer to their
first DP credit and YOU pay for the equipment rentals. You may find one
for $600/800 per week.

inkexit said:

but if I go after a name actor, a great DP, pay for insurance, film permits, fees to location owners, camera/lens rentals, catering, etc, I'm just not sure how much I would have left over.

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That's why I suggested you start the budgeting process now. It takes nothing
but research and time. That way you will know how much you have left over.

inkexit said:

And finally, how would I go about finding a good producer?

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Are you asking how to find someone who will find the money for you to make
your movie?

directorik said:

Are you asking how to find someone who will find the money for you to make
your movie?

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No, I plan on using Kickstarter to raise all the funds. But a number of people here said I should get a good producer, so maybe I should?

Yes, you need one.

The chances of a project raising $250k with crowd funding, off the top of my head is in the less than 1% range. It could be as high as 2%.

Good luck.

inkexit said:

No, I plan on using Kickstarter to raise all the funds. But a number of people here said I should get a good producer, so maybe I should?

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The advice is to find someone to produce – to do the job of a producer.
It's good advice. But that doesn't mean you will be able to attract an
established producer so I do not think that finding one whose work
you admire and emailing is going to help much. Can't hurt to try.

You have a catch-22 situation; you need money to hire a producer
but you can't get the money until you put up your Kickstarter campaign.
My advice is to start the work yourself. Break down your script, put
together a shooting schedule and an initial budget as you look for someone
willing to partner up with you to take over those duties.

Good luck!

inkexit said:

I guess it would be easier and perhaps cheaper to find an arts supply store and a music club that would let me shoot during hours they are closed. Of course there is the problem of what if no stores/clubs want to give me permission?

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Again, you are planning on shooting a biopic, which means that you must - repeat MUST - have era appropriate everything; sets, clothing, hairstyles, vehicles, signage, technology... the list goes on and on. This is going to seriously eat into your budget, or you are going to have to spend huge amounts of time acquiring what you need. People are going to notice if the sound and visuals do not agree with the era of your subject.

Based on the kind of questions you are asking (which is understandable since its your first film) you definitely need a good producer. He/she will already know the answers to these questions and will have the resources and contacts to help you get it made.

By the way, not to be too discouraging, but I don;t think you're going to get 250K from kickstarter as a first time filmmaker. That's a difficult goal even for someone with an established fan base.

Once again, get that producer, and he/she will help you find funds privately.