RED Raven vs URSA Mini 4.6K vs Kinefinity Terra 6K

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IronFilm

NAB 2016 has not even started yet and competition is getting fierce! As Kinefinity announced two new cameras, the Terra 6K and Terra 5K.

Wrote my views up on the top three low budget cameras with higher than 4K raw options (RED Raven vs URSA Mini 4.6K vs Kinefinity Terra 6K):

http://ironfilm.co.nz/speculation-red-raven-vs-ursa-mini-4-6k-vs-kinefinity-terra-6k/
If you don’t factor in the price / support / brand name cred, then I’d go for a Kinefinity Terra 6K over URSA Mini 4.6K or RED Raven any day of the week.
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(.....and then I go into much more detail.... read the article!)
 
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Is by any chance KineMount an open mount like say Micro Four Thirds is? I am guessing it is not.

There is a thread over on BMCuser about possible interchangeable mounts for BMD cameras.

Got me thinking that the absolute best result would be if BMD adopted the FZ mount in future cameras. FZ mount is what is used in the Sony F3/F5/F55, which I've used and is an absolutely wonderful mount! You can adapt it to anything else, for instance I've got a rock solid Nikon F mount on my Sony PMW-F3. So it works, and FZ is an already popular mount used by many.

But Sony will never let BMD use FZ mount. Thus the very nearly almost as good option is to talk with Kinefinity and see if they'd open up KineMount for everybody to use (in many ways KineMount is like Sony FZ mount, and kinda better... as Kinefinity have a focal reducer option! Yay). As if that happened it would be tremendously good news for both companies, and a massive result to help the indy / hobbyist / low / medium budget film industry.

Be great if Kinefinity and BMD could talk together with each other to create a universal mount system which can go onto dominate the film industry in the future.

http://www.bmcuser.com/showthread.php?16668-Possible-interchangeable-mounts-for-4-6K
 
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I wish people would move away from funding essentially 'beta' cams for companies, and putting money down on those cameras sight unseen.

I wish we could get away from buying based on a spec sheet. I have seen a very small amount of footage from the URSA mini, but neither the Raven or Kine are out yet, let alone having some hands-on time with them.

I was convinced I was going to buy a Blackmagic Pocket until I rented it for a small shoot just after it came out and was just as quickly convinced that there's no way I was going to buy that camera.

I attended the launch of the F5/55 and watched on a 4k projection three or so short films, plus other footage shot with both cameras. I thought I would never shoot on them given the choice. Not long after, I was forced into shooting on the F5 due to budget, and was quickly convinced that it was an awesome camera that I would be happy owning. Not long after, I used the F55 and was amazed at what I could get out of it.

I sat and watched 4k projected footage from the new VaricamLT a week or so ago, and I thought 'man this looks super digital.. it's an impressive camera spec-wise.. but would I really buy one? Would I use one as my day-to-day? Would I rent this over an Alexa? Amira? F55/5?'

The reality is, maybe. I was reminded of my Sony experience. Until I spent some time using the camera in the real world, shooting some footage and taking it through the post-process, I really wouldn't know.

I bought my F3 because I had used the camera a lot, and was very happy with the images I got from it, and thought at the price I could get it for it was a bargain. Had I never used the camera, I probably wouldn't have bought it. Because how do I know it's the camera for me until I use it?

On paper, almost every camera that is released is at least 'good'.

And realistically, every camera that is released could be someone's perfect camera.

Is it the perfect camera for you? How do you know until you've spent some real time with it?
 
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jax_rox said:
I wish people would move away from funding essentially 'beta' cams for companies, and putting money down on those cameras sight unseen.
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Funding beta cameras??? Not at all. Kinefinity is part of a much larger camera company, and Kinefinity has been making cinema cameras for a number of years now (they're now up to releasing what is at least their 6th cinema camera?? If I'm remembering correctly).

jax_rox said:
I wish we could get away from buying based on a spec sheet.
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Of course I wouldn't buy it purely based upon the spec sheet. And a significant part of my original article was looking over a few of those other factors.

jax_rox said:
I have seen a very small amount of footage from the URSA mini, but neither the Raven or Kine are out yet, let alone having some hands-on time with them.
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Well at least the Raven and Kinefinity Terra 6K are both based on sensors which we've seen before as they've been around for quite a while now, and know how it performs. Unlike the UM46 which is a sensor nobody at all at independently seen at all, up until a handful of days ago.

jax_rox said:
I bought my F3 because I had used the camera a lot, and was very happy with the images I got from it, and thought at the price I could get it for it was a bargain.
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Good choice, i too own a Sony F3 :)

These Kinefinity cameras are also a bargain too for what you can get it for, just like the F3 is now.
 
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IronFilm said:
Funding beta cameras??? Not at all. Kinefinity is part of a much larger camera company, and Kinefinity has been making cinema cameras for a number of years now (they're now up to releasing what is at least their 6th cinema camera?? If I'm remembering correctly).
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Hmm.. I dunno, I'm still iffy about Kinefinity. I'm sure the cameras are... more than acceptable, but without proper support, even (potentially) for SDK, and who knows what about the colour science...

Then again, Kine could end up being a huge player.

Remains to be seen.

Anyway, I'm overall speaking generally - the initial Blackmagic cameras were essentially beta cameras when they came out, particularly early firmware versions, the RED One was essentially a beta camera..
So many people buying based on price & spec, rather than what the actual image is like. Plenty of people who prefer the image of an F3 to a Blackmagic, but there's plenty more who will buy a Blackmagic because it's '4k raw'.

IronFilm said:
Well at least the Raven and Kinefinity Terra 6K are both based on sensors which we've seen before as they've been around for quite a while now, and know how it performs. Unlike the UM46 which is a sensor nobody at all at independently seen at all, up until a handful of days ago.
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Still - 'based on' doesn't mean 'the exact same'. The FS5 supposedly has the 'same' sensor as an FS7, which supposedly has the 'same' sensor as an F5...

Even if you say the FS5 has a sensor 'based on' that of an FS7 or F5, you're getting a significantly better image out of an FS7 or an F5 than an FS5...
The FS5 is still a good camera, don't get me wrong, but it's not quite an F5, despite being 'the same' or at least 'based on the same' sensor.

I doubt these cameras will be bad. In fact, I'm sure they'll be more than capable.

I just think sometimes people get too bogged down in specs rather than seeing what the image itself looks like. And even then, worrying too much about how 'perfect' the image is rather than simply going out and shooting something.

Not saying you, in particular, but in general it's a phenomenon I've noticed that seems to be getting worse as the market for low and low-mid range priced cameras grows.


IronFilm said:
These Kinefinity cameras are also a bargain too for what you can get it for, just like the F3 is now.
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I'll say could be a bargain ;). I'll hold off judgement until I see some footage and get to have some hands on time with one.

Anyway, what does one need 6k for, at least right at this moment in time? ;) :bag:
 
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I wish people would move away from funding essentially 'beta' cams for companies, and putting money down on those cameras sight unseen.
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I preorder cameras all the time. My neighbor is sick and tired of me complaining that their credit card is empty again ;)
 
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Sweetie said:
I preorder cameras all the time. My neighbor is sick and tired of me complaining that their credit card is empty again ;)
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:lol:

Look, if you've got money to burn, sure...

If you don't though, buy the camera that's right for you, not the camera that's got the specs you think are cool on paper....
 
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jax rox, of course we could all simply wait to talk about a camera until only AFTER it has came out and been extensively tested and used for a whole year first..... but where is the fun in that!!! :-o ;)

Ha, nope, not for me! I'll enjoy chit chatting with other folks who like this stuff even based only on pure rumors before the announcements come out! lol

Heck, one of my favourite sites to visit each day is 43rumors, and the other is sonyalpharumors!

Of course your points are valid too, and I'm unlikely to rush to place my money down for a pre order of ANY THING! Except in exceptional circumstances (the UM46K was *almost* that case... then I woke up, and was sensible again :P ).

As for sensors being "the same", the FS5 is *MASSIVELY CRIPPLED* (even the FS7 is) compared to the F5. And that is where the majority of the difference in image quality from an FS5 vs F5 comes from.

While both of the Kinefinity cameras do raw, so that particular aspect won't be such a big factor.
 
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IronFilm said:
While both of the Kinefinity cameras do raw, so that particular aspect won't be such a big factor.
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The F5, FS7 and FS5 do raw...

FS5 raw is yet to be released, but from all reports, the FS7 raw is pretty awful... whereas the F5 raw is great.

I'm not saying that will be the same case for Kine - I'm just saying ;) Don't count your chickens before they hatch :D

Too many people these days rush to buy something because 'on paper' it's the perfect cam, but the reality of the situation is often far different.

Jus' saying ;)
 
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