Any hints for directing composers?
- Thread starter devhaven
- Start date
I'm both a producer / director and a musician so here's my 2 cents....
What kind of movie is it?
It takes YEARS of practice to be able to know what "fits", when to lay off with the music, when to use "noises" rather than music, when to let the ambience be the music, when to do something "percussive", when to do something "textural", etc. Cite a few examples of music in other movies for this composer. Sometimes very little music is effective, and sometimes noises are better than music. I love the way "Duel" is so quiet the whole movie.
How many keyboards does this composer have? How many software synths? A composer needs an arsenal in his disposal to effectively create. Does he have an Access Virus? That is my "go to" synth on 75% of my stuff that I write.
What kind of movie is it?
It takes YEARS of practice to be able to know what "fits", when to lay off with the music, when to use "noises" rather than music, when to let the ambience be the music, when to do something "percussive", when to do something "textural", etc. Cite a few examples of music in other movies for this composer. Sometimes very little music is effective, and sometimes noises are better than music. I love the way "Duel" is so quiet the whole movie.
How many keyboards does this composer have? How many software synths? A composer needs an arsenal in his disposal to effectively create. Does he have an Access Virus? That is my "go to" synth on 75% of my stuff that I write.
I, to find working with composers different than working with actors.
Both are very collaborative, but in my case I know much less about
music than I do about acting. So I don't "direct" at all. I work with the
composer, knowing they are the expert and I am but the student. I
don't tell them what the music should sound like, I ask them what they
think the music should sound like.
I love working with creative people who know far more than I do. To me
that is the joy and excitement of being a director.
Sometimes just a few ideas are very helpful. You don't have to have a vision for the whole movie, but maybe you have a vision for a few scenes, as far as when to keep it simple, when to do something percussive, orchestral, tribal, or whatever it may be.
I like to watch through with the composer on the first viewing and verbally "Dum, Dum, DUH!!!!" key points of the film... not just the hit you over the head with music moments, but the subtle moments as well. It gives them a feel for what is in my head. I've also been a musician for 25 years, so I have some musical background, which makes it easier to be taken seriously when I'm doing it 
I work the exact opposite as you, knightly.
I like to hand the composer the finished movie and let
what I put on the screen inspire them without any input
from me at all. Then I do a spotting session with the
composer. I really love to hear what a talented composer
comes up with by only seeing my movie and not hearing
my thoughts.
But I tend to do that with everyone working on my movies.
I like hearing what the DP and actors get from just reading
the script - with no input from me until after.
I know that's really rare because I've most composers tell me
they have never worked that way before - some don't like it.
Each team is really different. That's what makes the entire
process so amazing.
I like to hand the composer the finished movie and let
what I put on the screen inspire them without any input
from me at all. Then I do a spotting session with the
composer. I really love to hear what a talented composer
comes up with by only seeing my movie and not hearing
my thoughts.
But I tend to do that with everyone working on my movies.
I like hearing what the DP and actors get from just reading
the script - with no input from me until after.
I know that's really rare because I've most composers tell me
they have never worked that way before - some don't like it.
Each team is really different. That's what makes the entire
process so amazing.
Rik, I'm like you, I always like to hear input from artists and creators first, even if I have ideas in my head, because they are artists, and I feel if I suggest something before they do I will disrupt their creative flow and possibly miss out on something cool. However, if their idea is not what I wanted, then, I will tell them what I had in mind. You have to let the artist work.
directing composers
friends,
what I feel has helped me most is to convey the feeling of the music; since I am not a musician I can only describe what scenario the music fits - what should the music say? - and rely upon the talent and intuition of the composer...on the grizzly man dvd herzog is shown working with the musicians, he obviously doesn't play an instrument, but still has the understanding of how his music should sound, even if it isn't what he imagined...it's exactly what collaboration is about, but you must be able to articulate what you want precisely. that's where things can get triccky
~Hakim
friends,
what I feel has helped me most is to convey the feeling of the music; since I am not a musician I can only describe what scenario the music fits - what should the music say? - and rely upon the talent and intuition of the composer...on the grizzly man dvd herzog is shown working with the musicians, he obviously doesn't play an instrument, but still has the understanding of how his music should sound, even if it isn't what he imagined...it's exactly what collaboration is about, but you must be able to articulate what you want precisely. that's where things can get triccky
~Hakim
Last edited:
Tricky is right. However; these are some excellent comments. Thank you very much.
Our musical story: This is certainly a low-budget feature, therefore we don't have much money at all for an original score. We had one person do some stuff on a synth and we didn't like it so we told him it wasn't working out. I have a long time family friend who is very talented in music and had him do some stuff. All that said, the experience was awful because he was volunteer and wasnt getting paid, therefore his effort was very lacking, and he is not punctual, to say the least.
However, what we did tell him was what we wanted each individual piece to accomplish. What we wanted the music to feel like. I'm not sure if what he composed was totally off base because he started 3 months after we talked to him, or because he just didn't understand what we were trying communicate. My best guess is because he procrastinated with it.
My film is what you might call a modern films noir. It revolves around one mans journey to find out the truth. He wakes up with no memory and belives hes being framed for a major crime. He meets many untrustworthy characters along the way. The trailer and website are at the bottom if that helps you understand the feeling of the movie.
Does anyone have any ideas, suggestions, hints, or questions on how to communicate the message or even ideas for the score?
Thanks
Devon
(website: www.shadowswithin.net trailer: http://youtube.com/watch?v=rNRuMD6GfhU )
Our musical story: This is certainly a low-budget feature, therefore we don't have much money at all for an original score. We had one person do some stuff on a synth and we didn't like it so we told him it wasn't working out. I have a long time family friend who is very talented in music and had him do some stuff. All that said, the experience was awful because he was volunteer and wasnt getting paid, therefore his effort was very lacking, and he is not punctual, to say the least.
However, what we did tell him was what we wanted each individual piece to accomplish. What we wanted the music to feel like. I'm not sure if what he composed was totally off base because he started 3 months after we talked to him, or because he just didn't understand what we were trying communicate. My best guess is because he procrastinated with it.
My film is what you might call a modern films noir. It revolves around one mans journey to find out the truth. He wakes up with no memory and belives hes being framed for a major crime. He meets many untrustworthy characters along the way. The trailer and website are at the bottom if that helps you understand the feeling of the movie.
Does anyone have any ideas, suggestions, hints, or questions on how to communicate the message or even ideas for the score?
Thanks
Devon
(website: www.shadowswithin.net trailer: http://youtube.com/watch?v=rNRuMD6GfhU )
There's a HUGE difference between musicians and composers...believe it or not. Just because you know someone that has a keyboard doesn't mean that they can write.
Interview your potential composer with the instrument that they will be using. Ask them to play something "tense" or play some "walking music". They should be able to come up with something in a few minutes right on the spot.
Giving them a copy of the script is a big help as well.
Interview your potential composer with the instrument that they will be using. Ask them to play something "tense" or play some "walking music". They should be able to come up with something in a few minutes right on the spot.
Giving them a copy of the script is a big help as well.
Look, this is both very simple and very complex...
At the simple end of the scale: you hired the composer based on her/his showreel... so beyond giving them a marked copy of the script showing where you think music should go... then the trick is to step back and see what they offer up.
However (now let's get complicated)... music in a scene carries the emotional subtext of the film, and it's your film so you should have a clear idea of the emotional journey and how you want the audience to feel at any given point.
Most composers will require some briefing as to the emotional journey... but some won't.
On my last major project I gave the composer free reign... and then realised that he was going in a direction that didn't work for me... so I put together a CD of styles of music that were close to what I was looking for...
In most cases this would be a bad thing to do... and it's always the last resort, but in this case I knew exactly what I wanted... and once I showed him the direction I was going he created some incredible stuff.
Like all relationships, it's unique to the people involved... you have to take your cues from what feels right, the most important thing is to be straight forward in your dealing and always to put the film first.
At the simple end of the scale: you hired the composer based on her/his showreel... so beyond giving them a marked copy of the script showing where you think music should go... then the trick is to step back and see what they offer up.
However (now let's get complicated)... music in a scene carries the emotional subtext of the film, and it's your film so you should have a clear idea of the emotional journey and how you want the audience to feel at any given point.
Most composers will require some briefing as to the emotional journey... but some won't.
On my last major project I gave the composer free reign... and then realised that he was going in a direction that didn't work for me... so I put together a CD of styles of music that were close to what I was looking for...
In most cases this would be a bad thing to do... and it's always the last resort, but in this case I knew exactly what I wanted... and once I showed him the direction I was going he created some incredible stuff.
Like all relationships, it's unique to the people involved... you have to take your cues from what feels right, the most important thing is to be straight forward in your dealing and always to put the film first.