(typing on iPhone please bare with me). As some f you may know I am an atheist. I would really like to film a documentary on religion. I know I run a few risks by making such a controversal film but it's something I feel strongly about. Any opinions on how you feel about a documentary with such a contravercial topic. Is it a bad idea? Any objections? Suggestions? How interested are you on the subject.
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Atheist viewpoint documentary
- Thread starter DRthunderMD
- Start date
I think the documentary based on this Thread is going in the wrong direction, just my personal belief. As an Atheist, I am afforded the ability to be open minded about all religions. I have studied most of the main religions before I came to the conclusion that, if there was a Truth and only one God, we would all know it and wouldn't have wars over religion. But, this isn't the point, my point is, instead of making a docuemntary based on the producer's point of view, take note of how the History channel does it, they usually have interviews with multiple sides of religion, a preist, an atheist, a biblical scholar, and maybe even a geologist to support the theory of the atheist or something. I think if you produced a well balanced docuemntarty where points and counterpoints are provided, you still allow the audience to make their own decision, but you have made a doc based on facts, opinions, and educated estimations in an unbiased way. I have not seen Bill Maher's video yet, even though I completely agree with his viewpoint, it was done in a biased way, so I can't really consider that to be a documentary, his productions are the equivalent to Michael Moore's productions, they are documentaries only if you believe along the same exact lines as the producer. Keep it fair but interesting. "In the Footsteps of Jesus" produced by the History channel completely supports my own theories of the stories in the Bible, but it's because even the biblican scholars agree that some of the stories in the Bible did not happen the way most Christians are led to believe. But it's not done in a biased way, they simply produce facts. Which personally, I believe we are finding more and more facts that dispute the stories in the bible. I mean come on, how can we possibly believe a book put together by a group of men at the Council of Nicea who arbitrarly selected which books went into the bible? how can you have a fair belieif system if you repress information and stories that may shed some bad light on the "heroes" of a faith? you can't. So that;s the reason I'm an athiest. I simply can not put any credit into a faith based on lies, deception, opression of documents and metaphors. So, with that, your documentary needs to be fair across the board and take into consideration ALL viewpoints, even if they go against your own belief. Make your own documentary the fair a balanced way, not the way the bible was put together. But, like Directorik said, you need to pick a theme of your documentary. Exactly what Athiest viewpoint are you looking for? Maybe you want to make a documentary on the Athiest's viewpoint on religion based on facts already uncovered, I don't know, it's up to you.
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Directorik, if you knew me you would know I don't take things personal, a trait I am rather lucky to have. I have a friend who is muslim so I really hope he is not to sensitive on the subject, because I know that some people are much more offended than others. I know I don't have a lot of knowledge about the religious viewpoint, as I have only been on this earth for barely under 18 years. I have a lot to learn in life and I am very excited. I don't feel like I have anything to prove to anybody, and I know that the majority of religious folk will not even take my film seriously, but I do feel that religion is harmful and should be treated as such. Homosexuals are people just like everybody else and do not deserve to be treated like animals. (I am not gay by any means, because I know when this subject comes up people will always say, well are you gay, is that why you are defending them) The fact that religion discriminates against gays I believe is completely immature and a waste of effort. I don't plan on making a documentary that just explains why I believe that god is not real. I want to make a documentary that focuses on why people want to think god exists, and why you don't need god to have morals or to succeed. I would like to get to the psycological part of it.
Oh now that would be a great topic. "Why do people feel they need religion?" I have had this very discussion with a Chaplain, I don't need a God to tell me what are good morals and how to succeed, if this were true, than all Buddhists must be sinners right along with us Atheists. This was a very indepth conversation between us. I am normally very reluctant to discuss religion with Christians because it usually ends up with the Christian acting in an unChristian way, however, he kept insisting that he wanted to know why I was an Atheist. We knew we would not be able to convince each other to change our views, but we listened to each other's viewpoints and in the end agreed to disagree. The only difference in views was mine was based on reality, facts and tangible evidence. His was based on simply his Faith. Faith in itself is a very powerful force. Faith is the belief in something that you can't see nor has been proven. To me, that's called Hope, but Christians do not see the synonymous relationship between the two. To Christians, Faith is the truth even though God has never been proven to exist, but yet, they have such a strong belief in that he does exist. Again, to me, that's called Hope, but try telling a Christian that. I have respect for Christians because they have such a strong belief in something that hasn't been proven, they base their entire lives on the faith/hope that they are correct. Although I'm a realist and only believe in something that has been proven (as an Atheist, I don't have to prove that God does not exist; if you claim that you know that I murdered someone, it's up to you to provide the proof, not me) I totally respect the power of Faith and how people (for the most part) conform their lives in accordance with their Faith. Anyway In the end a few months later, I got promoted based on my work performance, he got fired for unethical practices and lying to his boss, so, I did not need a god to know the difference between right or wrong, and I am very successful without religion. So, yes, I agree that would be an interesting documentary. Any production that questions religion will suffer bad press, ridicule, and will only be seen by a small number of people. I doubt many Christians will be open minded enough to watch a counterpoint documentary. Hell, the far right ones weren't even happy with the Mel Gibson movie. So, my point is, I think only a small amount of people will watch your documentary; like minded individuals, and open minded people. But I do feel that that would be an interesting topic to cover, why do people put so much stock into Faith?
So, I'll end my opinions there because I don't want to get sidetracked from discussing the aspects of your documentary with religious viewpoints, that's for other Forums.
So, I'll end my opinions there because I don't want to get sidetracked from discussing the aspects of your documentary with religious viewpoints, that's for other Forums.
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Can you please elaborate.
Define: Reality
Define: Fact
Current theories in quantum physics speculate that reality is "holographic" in nature. At the quantum level, we stop calling things "things" and refer to them as "information". The closer science gets to defining the properties of the universe the more abstract it becomes. Science is empirical observation that defines the properties of matter, energy and information. Religion seeks to understand the part BEYOND the observable spectrum.
You are simply putting faith in observation. Since you cannot "see" evidence of God you surmise it does not exist. We cannot "see" UV Rays and yet they exist according to observations by machines that we have made to do so.
Keep in mind that the universe is essentially comprised of information. Your eyes are three dimensional objects that translate waves of light into images within the spectrum of light we can process. Your ears translate vibrational waves into sound. We have invented machines that can see and hear a much wider array of frequencies that we cannot- evidence that our senses cannot be trusted.
And no, we don't need religion to be reasonable people with laws and morals. Look at Solon the Greek. People can simply come to a moral place by one philosophy that religion SHOULD espouse more than any other- treat others as you would have them treat you.
Why do you respect this?
It is fairly clear to me that religion has been used as a tool by those in power to keep control of the population through fear. Fear the devil, fear hell, fear God- and fear God's institutions on Earth- obey your King, love your Pope, bow before your leader. A population being moral simply because they want to avoid eternal damnation doesn't sound very selfless to me.
I'd have more respect for those who come to the determination that the way we live our lives should be determined not by what we hope for death, but by what conscious impact we wish to have in our lives and the lives of people we know.
ok, I would really like to end all discussions about religion in this forum. The thread was created to help me with my documentary, not get tempers flaring. Thanks to all who helped me.
I’m with you Doctor. A religious discussion arises the passion in
people - as Spatula demonstrates. I promise to keep MY discussion
to your documentary.
This seems quite shallow to me.
I’m a religous person and I don’t know a single religous person
who believes you need God to have morals or to succeed. There is
plenty of proof that you don’t. Is a documentary really needed
about that? Have you met a lot of religious people who believe
athiests have no morals and cannot succeed?
You have made a very interesting progression here. You started by
saying you want to make a documentary on the viewpoint of an
atheist from a fair an scientific perspective. That you feel many
religious people think atheists are “god haters” and evil so you
want to show that they are not.
Now you say that religion is harmful and should be treated that
way. That’s quite a change.
To me something that is harmful and should be treated that way
is child abuse. And I believe people who do harm to children should
be severely punished. I’m not suggesting no religious person has
never caused harm - of course they have - but is religion
harmful? Atheists have caused harm, but I don’t believe atheism
is harmful. Which brings up the question: since you believe
religion is harmful and should be treated that way, how should
religion be treated?
Your friend is a Muslim. So you know that vast majority of the 1.5
billion people who follow Islam are peaceful, respectful people
who want the best for their children, families and for all
people. It’s the tiny percent (statically less than 1%) who
cause harm.
Does that make the religion of Islam harmful?
I suspect most Christians you know don’t use their religion to cause
harm.
How many Hindus or Buddhists use their religion to cause harm?
I look forward to seeing you make the point that religion is
harmful and should be treated as such in your documentary.
people - as Spatula demonstrates. I promise to keep MY discussion
to your documentary.
This seems quite shallow to me.
I’m a religous person and I don’t know a single religous person
who believes you need God to have morals or to succeed. There is
plenty of proof that you don’t. Is a documentary really needed
about that? Have you met a lot of religious people who believe
athiests have no morals and cannot succeed?
You have made a very interesting progression here. You started by
saying you want to make a documentary on the viewpoint of an
atheist from a fair an scientific perspective. That you feel many
religious people think atheists are “god haters” and evil so you
want to show that they are not.
Now you say that religion is harmful and should be treated that
way. That’s quite a change.
To me something that is harmful and should be treated that way
is child abuse. And I believe people who do harm to children should
be severely punished. I’m not suggesting no religious person has
never caused harm - of course they have - but is religion
harmful? Atheists have caused harm, but I don’t believe atheism
is harmful. Which brings up the question: since you believe
religion is harmful and should be treated that way, how should
religion be treated?
Your friend is a Muslim. So you know that vast majority of the 1.5
billion people who follow Islam are peaceful, respectful people
who want the best for their children, families and for all
people. It’s the tiny percent (statically less than 1%) who
cause harm.
Does that make the religion of Islam harmful?
I suspect most Christians you know don’t use their religion to cause
harm.
How many Hindus or Buddhists use their religion to cause harm?
I look forward to seeing you make the point that religion is
harmful and should be treated as such in your documentary.
Yeah, I apologize if my comments invoked rebuttals and all, I only was trying to make a point regarding your documentary and how to bring up different themes or topics. The passion and tempers are the very reason I don't normally discuss religion. I did not want it to go in a direction discussing different personal viewpoints. I think between the comments and questions brought up by directorik, which are very valid points, and the questions and topics brought up by my fellow atheists here, you should have some material to work with. I think if it's done well and balanced, it will be a challenging but good production. Be respectful of all viewpoints in your documentary and try not to cover more topics in favor of your own opinions. I for one would be very interested in seeing the psychological side of what makes poeple feel the need to believe in a God and those who do not feel the need. Is there a difference in lifestyle? Do people who believe in a Faith tend to gather together more than non-believers? Do believers tend to feel the need to be part of a group more than non-believers? Do believers tend to give more to chairty than non-beleivers? What is the opinion differences on social programs? Why is it more non-believers tend to study science more? There's a lot of questions that can be brought up to compare the two paradigms (Faith and nonFaith based).
My apologies for bringing passion to the table. I'll recalibrate and answer your original questions as objectively as possible.
It's not a bad idea if it's what you want to do. It probably won't be profitable or popular unless you bring something new to the table though. The existing religions have pretty much tapped out source material in both video and written material. Do you have anything new to say on the topic?
No objections. My suggestion is still the same- make a documentary about the nature of reality from your own perspective. When you say "as some of you may know, I'm an athiest", therein lies the problem- you've classified yourself as a god-hating nihilist. Just like Rik has classified himself as a "man of God"- someone who can be completely reasonable and logical in all aspects of life with one exception. By applying those labels to yourselves you join with the impressions of the larger picture- you put yourself in with the rest of the flock. Unfortunately since most of the sheep are the same and thus unexceptional, only the black sheep (Extremists) get any attention, and thus, the sterotypes are created.
I'd rather see a documentary that examines the effect that religious labels creates. By proclaiming yourself a "________" you are now an extension of an institution or a philosophy... not an individual free-thinking human being. If I identified myself as a "Blackberry user", there would be associations with that.
You could still make your point - that not all atheists are blood-sucking cretins - by attacking the root of the problem- the labels and stereotypes that result from identifying yourself with a faith. The extension of that would be "Do we really need ORGANIZED religion to have our faiths?"
Very. I'd imagine everyone is, considering no one actually knows the true nature of reality (despite respective faiths) and everyone is affected by the billion-dollar religious industries. It affects politics, laws, the economy, our daily lives and decisions. If you can show something in a documentary that changes the way we see these forces, then I'm sure interest in the movie will go far.
It's not a bad idea if it's what you want to do. It probably won't be profitable or popular unless you bring something new to the table though. The existing religions have pretty much tapped out source material in both video and written material. Do you have anything new to say on the topic?
No objections. My suggestion is still the same- make a documentary about the nature of reality from your own perspective. When you say "as some of you may know, I'm an athiest", therein lies the problem- you've classified yourself as a god-hating nihilist. Just like Rik has classified himself as a "man of God"- someone who can be completely reasonable and logical in all aspects of life with one exception. By applying those labels to yourselves you join with the impressions of the larger picture- you put yourself in with the rest of the flock. Unfortunately since most of the sheep are the same and thus unexceptional, only the black sheep (Extremists) get any attention, and thus, the sterotypes are created.
I'd rather see a documentary that examines the effect that religious labels creates. By proclaiming yourself a "________" you are now an extension of an institution or a philosophy... not an individual free-thinking human being. If I identified myself as a "Blackberry user", there would be associations with that.
You could still make your point - that not all atheists are blood-sucking cretins - by attacking the root of the problem- the labels and stereotypes that result from identifying yourself with a faith. The extension of that would be "Do we really need ORGANIZED religion to have our faiths?"
Very. I'd imagine everyone is, considering no one actually knows the true nature of reality (despite respective faiths) and everyone is affected by the billion-dollar religious industries. It affects politics, laws, the economy, our daily lives and decisions. If you can show something in a documentary that changes the way we see these forces, then I'm sure interest in the movie will go far.
Directorik, I you point out that people today don't cause harm for their religion, or something along those lines. Well you would be correct if only those people actually weren't sinners. The majority of people today sin every single day. Many of them also do not attend church, that is why they do not cause harm. They are not following the word of god. I garuantee the majority of homophobics are religious. But this is off topic, I apolgize. But I plan on making my documentary on why we don't need god to have morals. This is my topic and I will be sticking to it and making it my own.
I find it interesting that you avoid each question I ask. And in
this case you completely twist my words to fit your own agenda.
Like you, I don’t take anything here personally so I still look
forward to seeing your documentary.
this case you completely twist my words to fit your own agenda.
Like you, I don’t take anything here personally so I still look
forward to seeing your documentary.
Hey Spatula, I sent you a PM - got this:
"Spatula has exceeded their stored private messages quota and cannot accept further messages until they clear some space."
"Spatula has exceeded their stored private messages quota and cannot accept further messages until they clear some space."
Yeah, I had like 500 messages and then my premiere thingy expired and the space went down to 10 or something. I just deleted them... noticed they added the "select all" button which wasn't there before when I tried. Anyway, u can try again, or email me at godofwine007@gmail.com if you like!
The problem I have with this topic is that is that you are setting out to prove your point of "why we don't need god to have morals". Although I may agree with you personally, this isn't really a documentary then because you are trying to convince your audience of only your viewpoint. Unless of course you consider Bill Maher and Michael Moore to also be documentary producers. Now, if you posed the topic as "Do we need to have a God to have morals?" then that's different because it's an open question that can be answered by two sides, atheists and believers with no sides being able to prove with overwhelming proof that their belief is correct, this leaves the viewer to decide on their own accord, not based on the producer's point of view. That's supposed to be the intent of a documentary, to provide a fair and balanced show that either provides solid and indisputable proof, or presents information that allows the audience to draw their own opinions based on the different viewpoints shown. I don't think making a documentary with your approach will be a successful production because you are already shutting down any chance for opposing views to welcome the topic.
The points of who harms who the most, or quantum physics and holograms of nature, or who has the most homophobes are irrelevant to your production unless you are willing to back up the claims with evidence and statistics and multiple sides of the arguments. If you want to present your views, that's fine, just don't call it a documentary. This of course is just my opinion.
Sorry, directorik, whenever I am responding in this forum I am usually at work so I really don't have time to read through everything and respond accordingly, what exactly have your questions been?
Evsfx, I worded that wrong. I am going to have it an open discussion and allow the audience to draw their own conclusions through the questions I pose. I was just telling you what my side is, and what I feel. The film will have interviews from both sides, I will offer my opinion, but I won't try and disregard the opposing side.
I would like to see the atheist shopping movie.
Docs are a subject I know nothing about, except as a viewer... and as with anything I plan to spend a couple of hours of my life on, I would like to be entertained in some way. That may mean transported to a different world - please not one with penguins - or seeing someone's life that is interesting or a closer look at an event (the Spike Lee New Orleans movies for HBO were great - they put faces on news events). Though movies with an agenda aren't usually on my list, if they are *funny* that spoonful of medicine helps the rest go down.
So my question about the audience is - why would I pay $11.50 and give up 2 hours of my life to see this film?
- Bill
Docs are a subject I know nothing about, except as a viewer... and as with anything I plan to spend a couple of hours of my life on, I would like to be entertained in some way. That may mean transported to a different world - please not one with penguins - or seeing someone's life that is interesting or a closer look at an event (the Spike Lee New Orleans movies for HBO were great - they put faces on news events). Though movies with an agenda aren't usually on my list, if they are *funny* that spoonful of medicine helps the rest go down.
So my question about the audience is - why would I pay $11.50 and give up 2 hours of my life to see this film?
- Bill