Audio Gear Purchasing Help

pakman · Nov 24, 2014

Hello Everyone,
I am new to this forum and will first introduce myself, and situation. I currently am in Highschool getting ready to work on a short film for both my school's film festival as well as hopefully a few other festivals. This is my first short film that I am making at this scale (nothing crazy, but a decent quality film) I have done some basic shorts for my family and friends, as well as helping one of my friends who is a professional (take that with a grain of salt, He works for both several schools and a church as well does weddings) event videographer with shooting.

For my project though I am working with one of my friends who wrote a short story that we are turning into a film. We are currently in Pre-Production working out budgeting, location scouting, casting, etc. I have been pulling all of the strings and favors that I can to get equipment and gear for this shoot. I am borrowing everything that I can and asking for favor from everyone, yet I can't find anyone with any audio gear that I can use for filming. I do have access to 1 Shure SM-58 that I can use but nothing else. So I am trying to raise money and purchase my own sound gear. I can't rent anything as the length that I would need it for would make it so that I would be paying way over my budget for equipment.

I would prefer to get a shotgun mic because I will be shooting outdoors for part of the shoot and need something versatile. This is what I am looking at right now. Either:

An
Alesis MultiMix 4 USB Four-Channel USB Mixer
and a
Vidpro XM-55

Or an
Alesis MultiMix 4 USB Four-Channel USB Mixer
with a
Vidpro XM-88

My budget is around $150 but I could probably squeeze to $200. I would prefer not to have to record audio straight into camera, and I don't know exactly what model camera I am going to have access to yet so I don't know if there is a mic in port.
I have a few questions about the gear that I have thought about right now:
1. Will I be able to tell a significant difference between the xm-55 and the xm-88.
2. I want to be able to use this for sound effects and foley as well will this be possible with these microphones?

I do have a laptop that I will be able to use for the mixer, as well as access to power at all of my locations for this project. Also for clarification this project has several voice overs that I need to do as well as on-set production sound that I need to capture. I also have friends who I can teach to run the sound gear on my project. I do have experience with sound as I help run sound a church and school for many of our events and activities.

Does anyone have any better recommendations that would fit my budget and needs? I am open to suggestions.
Thanks everyone in advance!

Alcove Audio · Nov 24, 2014

Okay...

First, I am not usually one to trash brands of gear, but VidPro stuff = over-priced consumer toys.

Second, the MultiMix 4 is not meant for production sound - not to mention relatively noisy (hiss).

My usual answer to this question is my $1,200 production sound buying guide. With $200 you are fairly limited as to quality* gear that is aimed specifically at production sound. I would recommend the Rode VideoMic:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/937192-REG/rode_videomic_booming_kit_windbuster.html

The $190 kit has a short boom-pole (six feet) and a Windbuster. It will plug directly into the camera; you may need an additional extension cable. It will also be more forgiving than a true shotgun mic. If you have any budget left you could get the $99 Tascam DR-05, the $200 Tascam DR-40 or the $200 Tascam DR-100mkII. You may be able to find decent used items on eBay or elsewhere.

The real "secret" to quality production sound is skill, knowledge and experience. Booming a mic is probably one of the toughest jobs on a film/video set and takes lots & LOTS of practice. The best boom-ops know lenses almost as well as a DP; they don't give a damn about how it looks, but which lens is being used gives the boom-op a heads-up as to the framing.

You should get and read - and then reread - The Location Sound Bible by Ric Viers; audio basics and how to apply them to production sound plus a few real tips and tricks.

http://www.ricviers.com/#!location-sound-bible/c1zb6
http://www.amazon.com/The-Location-Sound-Bible-Professional/dp/1615931201

Do your absolute best to find someone whose entire job on your project is the production sound, even if s/he has no experience. Have them read The Location Sound Bible and practice booming before you shoot.

++++++++++++++++++++++

* Quality is relative. Compared to the VidPro mics the Rode mic is a vast improvement, compared to real pro gear the VideoMic a well-built, useful toy. Just to give you a little perspective, the two current favorite shotgun mics with working professionals are the Schoeps CMIT5U ($2,200) and the Sennheiser MKH-416 ($1,600); a professional sound cart plus bag can easily run well over $50,000.

PHOTO-BY-CHUCK-HODES-Alex-Riordon-and-the-Crew-of-Boss-300x200.jpg

pakman · Nov 24, 2014

Thanks for the advice. I will definitely pick up a copy of that book. Also thanks for the recommendation, I will definitely look at getting the Rode Videomic. I have a couple other questions though.

1. Would the Videomic be able to have high enough quality to capture voice overs and sound effects? Or would it be better to use the Vidmic or the Shure SM-58's that I have access to?
2. Is there a good way to record audio from the Rode Videomic other than into the camera for voice overs and sound effects other than into a camera without spending a lot of other money for a recorder? or is there a good quality recorder for cheap?
3. If I was able to scratch up some more money (in the range of a 100 to 200 more) what would you recommend?
4. With a usb mixer like the MultiMix 4 or even a Behringer Q502USB give me better audio recorded into a computer than into the camera? especially with the poor preamps in most DSLR cameras that I would most likely be using?

Thanks for the response as well.

Alcove Audio · Nov 25, 2014

pakman said:
1. Would the Videomic be able to have high enough quality to capture voice overs and sound effects? Or would it be better to use the Vidmic or the Shure SM-58's that I have access to?
2. Is there a good way to record audio from the Rode Videomic other than into the camera for voice overs and sound effects other than into a camera without spending a lot of other money for a recorder? or is there a good quality recorder for cheap?

Every job requires a specific tool. Production sound requires one set of tools, audio post requires a somewhat different set of tools. Skill level and experience also have a lot to do with the selection of "tools" for the specific "tool kit."

At your skill and budget level the Rode VM is a solid choice for production sound. It's built pretty well, so will last you a while. It has a wider polar pattern (width of the "good" pick-up range) than a true shotgun mic, so the VM does not require the precise aiming of a shotgun mic. At this time capturing good production sound is job number one sonically. As they say in the programming world - "Garbage in, garbage out."

When it comes to voice overs and sound effects... The VM won't be great at it, but will do okay for hobbyist purposes. Plug it right into the mic in of your computer; it will get by for now.

If you were just asking about needing a mic for audio post (ADR, VO, SFX, Foley) on your $200 budget I would probably recommend a USB mic; there's a decent selection in the $60 to $200 range (i.e. the Blue Snowball and the Audio-Technica AT2020USB). That's unless, of course, you already had a decent shotgun mic or hypercardioid mic (NTG-1 or AT875, or the Avantone CK-1, for example), then I would recommend a USB converter or an audio interface, depending upon the budget.

Don't get gear crazy. You're just starting out, so KISS - Keep It Simple, Stupid! - something I have to remind myself quite frequently. The big "problem" here is that the next step up in audio gear is fairly steep; remember my $1,200 buying guide? That gets you a reliable, entry level, prosumer production sound kit that will last for while if treated and maintained properly. But that's six times your budget.

pakman said:
3. If I was able to scratch up some more money (in the range of a 100 to 200 more) what would you recommend?

A good pair of headphones; the Sony MDR-7506 are quite popular - $100. If you don't want to be tethered to the camera, the $100 Tascam DR-05 audio recorder is a possibility, but then you absolutely MUST have the good headphones, so it's going to be $200 - plus shipping or taxes or whatever.

pakman said:
4. With a usb mixer like the MultiMix 4 or even a Behringer Q502USB give me better audio recorded into a computer than into the camera?

Are you going to lug a computer and a mixer around when you run and gun? KISS! Plug into the camera, no syncing in post.

pakman said:
especially with the poor preamps in most DSLR cameras that I would most likely be using?

At your skill level the noise from the DSLR preamps are the least of your worries. Getting the mic aimed properly is the first skill that needs to be mastered. As I mentioned before, skill counts for a lot more than the quality of the gear at this point. When you're doing audio post and go "what's that hiss" when listening to the production tracks, then maybe you're ready to trade up.

pakman said:
Thanks for the response as well.

pakman · Nov 25, 2014

Thanks a lot for the response, and the suggestion. I will be going with the Rode Videomic for now (unless in the next month or so I happen to come across an extra $1000 dollars) . I really appreciate the perspective on the the audio gear. I am the type of person who often tries to do too much too fast, so it is great to have a reminder on where I am and what I really need/can do at my budget and skill level.

Audio Gear Purchasing Help

pakman

Alcove Audio

pakman

Alcove Audio

pakman