WORKING WITH SAG!!!!!!!!!!!!

Joe Citizen said:

I see no reason government employees should have it better than the private sector when they're on our dime.

Click to expand...

Um, how exactly do we have it better? Private sector has unions, too, only they're not being lambasted and vilified in the media.

The problem with SAG is that they are unrealistic with regard to indie low budget films. What are they trying to do? Squeeze blood out of a rock? These days indie film producers who are losing tons on money making their movies.

On a side note, SAG never punishes it's members for working on indie films unless they are famous or later become famous. Then they make an example of them. Very rare though.

By the way I only read part of this article and I would NEVER go SAG!!!! Just plain laughable.
http://politicalfilm.wordpress.com/2009/06/14/the-truth-about-the-sag-ultra-low-budget-agreement/

We went SAG BECAUSE!!!

We went Sag, because the actors we wanted to use and knew well went SAG on us. In our State they were giving a 40% tax incentive and a ton of films came here to be shot -- so the actors we worked with went SAG so they could get small roles in those films, and most of them got small roles. We were using them for our leads, and they were all afraid of getting in trouble with SAG, so they didn't want to work with us unless we went SAG. We knew these actors for years, and the screenplay was written around their talents -- this is the only reason we went SAG.

Here's a few things I'm reflecting on after we finally got our film in the can.

We were told to budget 40% of the actors salaries or the first two weeks of the salary for our deposit as per the INDIEWORKSHOP. But that's not what they charged-- it just sounds good at the INDIEWORKSHOP, and they are just salesman as my REP was so very un-nice to point out!!!

They charged the whole amount we paid the actors plus another 25%, and when we complained, and asked if this could be lowered our SAG REP became really rude, and wouldnt work with us at all--She laughed in our faces-- By the way -- our REP never answered any questions, never helped us in any way, only Demanded that we do what they wanted or else.

At this point WE almost dropped SAG!!!!

I'm sure your asking -- "Why didn't we drop SAG?"

The actors -- we worked with them before and wanted to work with again, and like I said we wrote the screenplay with the actors we knew in mind, so after thinking long and hard -- lementing for a few days -- thinking we should dump SAG -- that meant finding new actors that would be as perfect for the roles as the SAG actors. We felt the film would suffer and not be as good -- we did consider scratching the whole idea, and writing a new screenplay. But in the end the one we wrote for the SAG actors was just too good to just PITCH!!!!

So we decided to bite the bullet, and we rasied the money we needed to pay the very high SAG Deposit, and went into shooting.

We had to mail all our paper work to SAG for each week of shooting including our payroll checks, and SAG mailed them out to the actors.

The payroll was due on Thursday of the following week of each shooting week. We mailed them out on Monday, so they would get to SAG by Thursday, and we were not going to overnight it because that would cost $20 a pop.

On Thursday morning when our first payroll was due we were called by the REP at 830am, and said your payroll isnt here, and I said it should be there today or tomorrow -- HER REPLY --- "YEAH RIGHT!!!! I don't believe you." I said to the REp Why are you treating us this way -- She said, because you indpedent films are destroying our business!!!! I said your wrong and the payroll will be there today--- she hung-up on me. I called back at 4pm our payroll arrived at 3pm by USPS, and our REP wouldnt talk us anymore...I've called 10 times to ask questions she will not answer our calls...

When we get our Deposit back I will send up a post with her name..

Dleo

Thanks for sharing that, Dleo. I can see why the experienced SAG actors I've worked with basically said, "Don't even go there."

Dleo said:

you indpedent films are destroying our business!!!!

Click to expand...

Didn't know that. Learn something new every day on IndieTalk.

This person sounds like a real piece of work.

I can understand that SAG wants their actors to be paid pronto because there's TOO MANY producers out there who are con-artists. But for SAG to say that indie films are "destroying the business" is absolute complete ignorance. If anything SAG is destroying their own chances of working on indie movies. It's simple supply and demand: There's TOO MANY actors and a small handful of indie films being shot with shoe string budgets and little chance of earning a profit. SAG is WAY out of touch with reality. The end result is that their actors DON'T get work on indie films. Non-union actors do.

UPDATE

Well we have done everything SAG has asked of us. We sent every paycheck on time -- we paid a higher than expected deposit, we have done everything they asked of us on time, and correctly. Now we are looking to get our deposit back -- SAG has not returned any of our E-mails or calls in weeks -- we have left messages and sent E-mails, but nothing. I'm sorry, but I dont care how busy they are -- they could communicate to us.

Our actors are more than disappointed in SAG as well -- we turned in every payroll check on time, but it took SAG almost a month to get those checks to our actors -- we didn't tell our actors the problems we were having with SAG until they complained about getting paid -- The actors were very frustrated that we tried to do our film correclty with SAG, and we were treated so poorly -- We have stated to the actors we will never be SAG again. Some will still act for us, other won't, but SAG was terrible to deal with our AGENT was very difficult to work with, and if we had it to do all over again we would have never gone with SAG. DO NOT TRUST ANYTHING YOU HERE FROM SAG'S INDIE WORKSHOP -- They are at worst liars, and at best wrong about what they are saying.

Don't get me started on the "Distribution Assumption Agreement"

Dleo

Dleo said:

Don't get me started on the "Distribution Assumption Agreement"

Dleo

Click to expand...

Come on... you know you want to.

Get it over & done with.

Our film Demon Equation is done and we are premiering it 11-11-11 in Farmington Michigan.

Here's a link to the Website:http://demonequation.com/

Let us know what you think of the poster and TEASER.

Dleo

Excellent news! Best of luck with your premiere!

AMEN! to what Gonzo Entertainment said!
Looking at your movie as a business venture, does it really make sense to invest a big sum of money on a bunch of SAG unknown actors that film distributors will not know or even care about. From a business prospective there's really two types of actors
1. unknowns 2. names. You either recognize them on the credits or not.
I considered the SAG ultralow budget agreement for my production. If I would have gone that route, I think I would have run out of money and have half a film shot. Just my experience. SAG has it's purpose though. 8-)

2001 Prod,
Thank you!!!



finderskeepers,

You're absolutely 100% right! I won't go SAG again unless I have KNOWN actors--FOR SURE

Going Fi-Core for actors has NOTHING to do with if the actor is insecure or very secure. It has to do with the rights we lose as actors. The union protects us as far as safety on sets, insurance, pay, yada yada...Going ficore, although a right of the members, directly goes against the principles of any union. I'm not saying that an actor shouldn't go FiCore, but those are the cruxes.

Going FiCore for a $100 a day for an indie is not exactly very worthwhile for us. It doesn't put food on our table. If you're working below the line you have the opportunity to work most weeks of the year but as an actor (and you can work non union for most of your unions I believe), unless you're starring on a show or insanely famous, you're not working daily. Our income comes in chunks. Big chunks for commercials, big chunks for studio films, and much smaller chunks for tv (unless you're a regular). So giving up our time that we could possibly be auditioning for bigger projects that can actually help us pay rent is what we are giving up. It sucks because there is a ton of great indie film out there but most theatrical agents would tell their clients to pass on the $100 a day leads because it takes weeks or months of our time for very small financial gain.

All of that said indie films are great to work on and there is usually a lot more heart involved in the projects. So I love doing them when I can fit them in. But I wouldn't go FiCore to do one because if it isn't union its likely not paying a ton and I have to give up my rights as a union member...no voting, no attending our events...we essentially lose our card but still get to work in union projects.

Well, I'm proud to say my next production will be Ultra Low Budget SAG because I'm looking forward to a much higher level of experience and professionalism SAG and other union actors bring to a production.

The lower the budget, the more reasonable SAG is with Indie producers.

So, let's disspell the false rumors and all go SAG!

I've heard nothing but good things from people in my crew who have produced ultra low budget productions with SAG actors.

And, I know PLENTY of SAG actors. And, they really have their acts together. Even Equity and Eastern European union actors are more committed to the art than disillusioned non-union actors.

With all the migrane headaches non-union aactors bring, as well as additional expenses, I will never producer another non-union propduction ever again.

Here's my blog on that just a few days old: http://mikecervello.wordpress.com/2011/10/25/i-creator-2-goddess-of-the-hunt-is-in-postproduction/

Modern Day Myth Prod. LLC said:

Well, I'm proud to say my next production will be Ultra Low Budget SAG because I'm looking forward to a much higher level of experience and professionalism SAG and other union actors bring to a production.

The lower the budget, the more reasonable SAG is with Indie producers.

So, let's disspell the false rumors and all go SAG!

I've heard nothing but good things from people in my crew who have produced ultra low budget productions with SAG actors.

And, I know PLENTY of SAG actors. And, they really have their acts together. Even Equity and Eastern European union actors are more committed to the art than disillusioned non-union actors.

With all the migrane headaches non-union aactors bring, as well as additional expenses, I will never producer another non-union propduction ever again.

Here's my blog on that just a few days old: http://mikecervello.wordpress.com/2011/10/25/i-creator-2-goddess-of-the-hunt-is-in-postproduction/

Click to expand...

I think it's very dependent on the regional SAG office as to how willing to work with indies they are. For every good experience I've heard about, I've heard about a horrible experience. Personally, for me, unless I can get name talent, it's not worth the hassle. It has nothing to do with not wanting to pay my actors (personally, I'd like to pay them well above SAG ultra low budget, and will plan my budget accordingly for the feature I'm doing next year), but more to do with the hoops SAG makes some indie producers jump through.

Again, though, it seems to be largely dependent on the individual SAG reps that people deal with. Some seem to be wonderful and others are nightmares (as with most things in business).

I always pay the actors I work with, but this is the first film I used SAG. Our acters felt like SAG treated us badly aswell. It was mostly our agent. It was an aweful expereince, and they treated our production like they really didn't care about us. They laughed in our faces -- they treated us like we didn't belong--and our representive actually came out and said low budget independant films are destroying the industry. It was the New York SAG. I've heard much better things about California SAG.

If you look back and read this thread you wil see what happened.

Michigan SAG is useless, and that's where we are from.

If your going to go SAG--Make sure you account in your budget for the deposit it will be your whole salary, plus 35%, if your actors salaries is say $5,000 then you will need a deposit of $6150 plus the actors salaries
so you will need 11,150, for your actors-- you will get the deposit back however, but it will be months after the photography is done.

Dleo said:

They laughed in our faces -- they treated us like we didn't belong--and our representive actually came out and said low budget independant films are destroying the industry.

Click to expand...

Which is why this pro-union writer is anti-SAG. Most of the people in SAG are not making a living acting, which is why SAG isn't much of a union.

We are only required to pay SAG actors $100 a day with the Ultra Low Budget Agreements. We are looking to get a letter of Intent from a cable TV Network to get a bank loan to cover our budget.

Remember, the rules and contracts change according to the size of the budget.

As one of my crew people said, a SAG rep may only show up one day for the whole shoot and the rest of the time, we are on our own.

So, there is no need to scare people here.

I'd rather work with responsible actors, which most SAG actors are instead of non-union actors who show up for their first day of rehearsal 30 to 40 pounds heavier than on their auditioning day when we took their costume measurements. And now, they can't fit into their costumes and feel to sick to rehearse their stunts. Others have their schedules all mixed up and try to get me to change the production days because of their screw-ups. Then there are divas who can't find shooting locations in a city they were born in.

And, the list goes on and on. SAG? ALL THE WAY!!!

Modern Day Myth Prod. LLC said:

So, there is no need to scare people here.

Click to expand...

I'm not scaring anyone here. I'm giving them facts not previously brought up in the thread (as far as I know). Filmmakers can decide on their own what to do re: SAG

Besides, enough people taking SAG to task for their lack of parity and for their other nutty activities might prompt them to knock it off with bullying tactics and get into the digital age.

SAG offers an affordable way to bring a high caliber of better actors to small independent filmmakers to improve their overall production with more responsible, more experienced, and more professional actors than what small producer are used to working with that can save BIG bucks when roles don't have to be cut out or recast. And, the production isn't being held back with people who mix up their schedules by the day and can find local shooting locations. They don't keep calling the director every 5 seconds with no regards to everyone else on time and ready to shoot when something is being filmed. They find their own way to the shooting location.

You won't see a SAG actor asking the director to put on their makeup so it looks the way the director wants. But ,you will with non-union actors.

Maybe this thread will wake up non-union actors to clean up their act, because SAG is making an option for better actors affordable to small filmmakers.

As I said, I can go on and on about all the issues I've have to put up with with non-union actors. But, no more.

There's plenty of talented non-union actors out there and plenty of SAG actors who will work non-union. I've never had any major problems with non-union actors (makeup or otherwise). Explain how shit works ahead of time and you won't have problems. Having said that, any producer knows that you always have backup choices for actors in case someone backs out. Have your main irreplaceable actors sign deal memos. Simple. The unrealistic demands of SAG make them unworkable for me. This is not 2000 any more. Profits have eroded severely and budgets have been slashed. Beggars can't be choosers. That's what actors are on low budget films. It's simple supply and demand. There's a zillion actors and very few films. Complain and cry "unfair" all you want but it's true. This isn't the oil industry.