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Old 11-27-2017, 12:17 AM   #1
buscando
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Crowdfunding - Seed & Spark v. Kickstarter, Indiegogo

I saw this discussion on Reddit. I'd never heard of Seed & Spark but it seems to be a very good alternative to Kickstarter & Indiegogo. Someone that seems to be an entertainment attorney gives the reasons he prefers it.
This might be useful for people here.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Filmmakers/...ng_discussion/
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Old 11-27-2017, 06:24 AM   #2
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S&S has a higher success rate, because they have a threshold* and because they actively support projects.

*) This means they don't just publish every campaign, but the campaigns that have done the groundwork to make it a succes. This results in less 'pie in the sky-campaigns' than we often see on Kickstarter or IGG.

Last edited by WalterB; 11-27-2017 at 06:50 AM.
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Old 11-27-2017, 08:06 AM   #3
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I have never tried any of the fund raising sites. Does anyone know anyone who actually found the money they were looking for to make their movie? The only success story I know of was for a sci/fi horror film being made by a top notch Hollywood FX company. They had the effects, access to a good cinematographer, miniature fx artist, actors, etc... They raised their money (I contributed to them too!).. But does anyone know of anyone who is just looking for 40 or 50 grand to make their film; a film with not much to boast about except the story and maybe a B list actor or two?
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Old 11-27-2017, 09:15 AM   #4
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There are 1 pages of success and failure on IT:
http://www.indietalk.com/showthread.php?t=39742
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Old 11-27-2017, 09:26 AM   #5
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I have a friend who succeeded in basically that situation, yes. They worked continuously for 30 days to do it.
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Old 11-27-2017, 11:47 PM   #6
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S&S seems to be a bit different from the usual % grabbers in that it supports the artists. Rumor has it that it is curated which would lead one to believe that they might bring a certain audience to the table.
They also have competition type stuff, like the Hometown Heroes they pulled a few weeks ago.
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Old 11-28-2017, 10:16 AM   #7
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S&S seems intriguing Krios. They have their own streaming site that features the funded films. They have their own distribution which they say is the most transparent. It does seem geared toward fostering an independent film community where you make, support, & watch these films.

I'm going through their Crowdfunding for Independence 2015 Handbook. It's 50 pgs! Interesting info here on building your fanbase one movie at a time. They have other handbooks on how to use social media, etc.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/seedandspar...handbook_0.pdf
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Old 11-28-2017, 10:39 AM   #8
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We definitely need more S&S style communities for filmmakers, where the finished project can be featured instead of forgotten. Far too often, when creators are supported on Kickstarter, they "kinda" vanish after the funds have been raised.
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Old 11-29-2017, 04:39 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Velusion View Post
does anyone know of anyone who is just looking for 40 or 50 grand to make their film
Yeah, I know this guy, Rob McCallum, who claims he raised $350,000, for his projects. He used Kickstarter quite a bit. 40-50K was for one of his movies. He came over and made a presentation about it, a couple of years ago, then showed his movie. Here's his IMDB page:

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2253613/?ref_=nv_sr_3
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Old 11-29-2017, 12:51 PM   #10
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It might be worth mentioning Patreon as well, because there is something fundamentally
wrong with paying artists, or plumbers up front for a job they might or might not do.
Quality of the product, with respect to the honest artists, goes right out the window if a
job is payed for in advance. Who gets payed that way? It is only a matter of time before
a few rotten apples spoil the fun for the rest of them with the up-front crowdfunding scheme.

Patreon on the other hand, is more in line with traditional get-payed-for-work-done
scenarios. It is on-going support where the supporters might pull out if the work is
slacking.

Last edited by Krios; 11-29-2017 at 12:53 PM.
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Old 11-29-2017, 01:23 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krios View Post
It might be worth mentioning Patreon as well, because there is something fundamentally
wrong with paying artists, or plumbers up front for a job they might or might not do.
Quality of the product, with respect to the honest artists, goes right out the window if a
job is payed for in advance. Who gets payed that way? It is only a matter of time before
a few rotten apples spoil the fun for the rest of them with the up-front crowdfunding scheme.

Patreon on the other hand, is more in line with traditional get-payed-for-work-done
scenarios. It is on-going support where the supporters might pull out if the work is
slacking.
I disagree, since artists do not provide a service to solve something like a plumber.
Often crowdfunding is done to cover production costs, just like any sound carpeter charges for the wood needed before starting the job. Without covering those costs, the production would never start. So this is a way to create things that are not interesting for investors that want double digit returns on investment, but for fans/niche groups that would love to contribute to make sure something they love gets made.

And Patreon is often used in the same way as pay in advance crowdfunding: you pay and then the artists gives you something made that month. Patreon is not Etsy: that is a webshop where you buy stuff that is in stock (and you still pay in advance).
The big difference is: no big target, often no big project, but more like support so the artist can be an artist.

There will always be rotten apples, just like there are rotten apples that don't pay the plumber after he fixed the piping. Or pay less than half of what was agreed.


However, I am curious why you are so angry about crowdfunding?

Last edited by WalterB; 11-29-2017 at 01:28 PM.
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Old 11-29-2017, 01:52 PM   #12
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When you lay it down that way Walter, it makes good sense, and each funding
platform has it's pros & cons.

My somewhat jaded perspective stems from being... let's just say, unintentionally
swindled, where two creators who were backed on Kickstarter failed to create their
project. Maybe I bet on the wrong horse(s). Or maybe this is just Eastern-European
paranoia. But as an artist, I'm concerned that there are people out there who might
take advantage of crowdfunding and spoil it for the rest of us.

And let's not get started with the "fill-in-the-blank" tactic, where an artist will wait to
see how close to the goal a campaign gets, and then "fluff" the rest to make it pass.
Maybe this is standard procedure, and if it's only 10-20% I'd do it too... but it does
tend to feel a bit hoodwink-ish if 40% of the funds "magically" appear in the last day
of the campaign.
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Old 11-29-2017, 02:02 PM   #13
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I understand your perspective much better now.
These things happen unfortunately. Even some big Kickstarters have bombed and that is bad for trust.
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Old 11-29-2017, 02:58 PM   #14
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I invested in a kickstarter project a while ago. A movie called Harbinger down starring Lance Henriksen. Sure, I only donated 5 bucks but I was suppose to get a digital download for free when the movie was complete. I never got my copy . Actually, I never thought I would considering that putting the movie out there would ruin their chances at a distribution deal... I figured I'd get my link to a digital copy in an email after the distribution deal came through. Well, I don't know all the details but the movie made it to Netflix... It sucked,,, and I never got my copy.. Oh well.... I wonder why they promised copies of the movie to contributors if they knew they could not do that. They must have known.. The film was made by Hollywood FX people and they had a lot of key people volunteering time and experience. .. They knew they could not hand out copies if they hoped to make a profit.

Last edited by Velusion; 11-29-2017 at 02:58 PM. Reason: typo repair
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Old 11-29-2017, 04:23 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Velusion View Post
I invested in a kickstarter project a while ago. A movie called Harbinger down starring Lance Henriksen. Sure, I only donated 5 bucks but I was suppose to get a digital download for free when the movie was complete. I never got my copy . Actually, I never thought I would considering that putting the movie out there would ruin their chances at a distribution deal... I figured I'd get my link to a digital copy in an email after the distribution deal came through. Well, I don't know all the details but the movie made it to Netflix... It sucked,,, and I never got my copy.. Oh well.... I wonder why they promised copies of the movie to contributors if they knew they could not do that. They must have known.. The film was made by Hollywood FX people and they had a lot of key people volunteering time and experience. .. They knew they could not hand out copies if they hoped to make a profit.
That is conning people.
Can't you call the director out on facebook/Twitter?
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