Home Your Ad Here

Go Back   IndieTalk - Indie Film Forum > The Biz > Hollywood

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-05-2017, 10:24 PM   #46
jax_rox
IndieTalk Moderator
 
jax_rox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 2,825
Quote:
Originally Posted by Velusion View Post
Harvey is a sick man who had the power that allowed him to do the things he did.
[...]
Ask yourself, why did he do these things? It probably has something to do with his upbringing.
[...]
Well adjusted people don't suddenly turn into sociopaths.
It has everything to do with his upbringing. He's not a 'sick man' any more than the plethora of men in positions of absolute or relative power across the world are 'sick' - and there are hundreds of thousands, if not millions. Probably tens of millions men who have unacceptable attitudes towards women. People who you and I would call friends. People who are otherwise normal.

It has nothing to do with being well-adjusted or being a sociopath. It has everything to do with a society that has and continues to treat women as nothing but sexual objects. That implies that women have no worth other than in the way they relate to a man.

The reason this is so prevalent isn't because a huge number of men across the world 'just happen' to be sick sociopaths. It stems out of an upbringing in a society that suggests the male gender is the only one of real worth as a person.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Velusion View Post
Can you say for certain that it would not corrupt you in any way?? Cause I'll tell ya, I'm honest enough to say that if I had that power and I was surrounded by beautiful women I might be tempted to use it. No, not rape or coercion but maybe a little "I scratch your back - you scratch mine".... if they were willing. Now, if you say that you absolutely know that you would not even be tempted I will say that you are in denial.
This is purely a hypothetical, but further serves to re-enforce my point. You feel that way because that's how you view women. Because of your upbringing, and because of society, not because of a sickness. We should be aiming for a society where all men are capable of seeing women as people first. And unless we call out unacceptable attitudes and behaviour we will get nowhere.
jax_rox is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Today   #1A
film guy
Basic Member
 
Posts: 17

 
Old 12-05-2017, 10:37 PM   #47
Velusion
Basic Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Utah
Posts: 102
Quote:
It has nothing to do with being well-adjusted or being a sociopath. It has everything to do with a society that has and continues to treat women as nothing but sexual objects.
I know.. I know you're right. I agree with you 100%. I didn't want to say it for fear of shocking those with delicate sensibilities.

Quote:
You feel that way because that's how you view women.
ok. now I've got to call you on this one. .. As much as a lot of men try to the contrary, we are still just animals with basic instincts. The sex drive is probably the second most powerful instinct we have, right behind our instinct to live - to survive. I can't remember the exact statistic but it is said that men think of sex on an average of once every 10 seconds (or something close to that). We see a woman and we instantly assess her beauty and judge her physical endowments. Don't tell me you don't do this 'cause if you do, I'll say you probably suffer from low testosterone. .. I've read that the number one reason most men do not cheat on their wives is simply fear of being caught. Face it man; it's in our blood to have women. We can't help it.
Velusion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2017, 10:58 PM   #48
jax_rox
IndieTalk Moderator
 
jax_rox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 2,825
Quote:
Originally Posted by Velusion View Post
As much as a lot of men try to the contrary, we are still just animals with basic instincts. [...] We see a woman and we instantly assess her beauty and judge her physical endowments. Don't tell me you don't do this 'cause if you do, I'll say you probably suffer from low testosterone. .. I've read that the number one reason most men do not cheat on their wives is simply fear of being caught. Face it man; it's in our blood to have women. We can't help it.
I can't agree with you on that. I still assert that it's the society we live in. Don't take for granted the way in which hundreds of years of history treating women a certain way has an effect on everyone.

I think the 'animal instincts' retort is a good excuse, but is no more than that - an excuse.

There's a difference between finding someone attractive and feeling you have a right to them or their body.
jax_rox is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2017, 11:03 PM   #49
Velusion
Basic Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Utah
Posts: 102
Quote:
There's a difference between finding someone attractive and feeling you have a right to them or their body.
I could not agree more and I hope I didn't say anything that suggests otherwise.
Velusion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2017, 11:27 PM   #50
sfoster
IndieTalk Moderator
 
sfoster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 5,042
Quote:
Originally Posted by Velusion View Post
Come on...... this "shockwave" is only a forced - politically correct response to something that I'm sure EVERYONE knows happens in Hollywood and everywhere else on a daily basis.
The condemnation of sexual assault does not fall into the category of political correctness.
That's basic morality.
sfoster is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2017, 01:05 AM   #51
buscando
Basic Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: L.A.
Posts: 464
Quote:
Originally Posted by Velusion View Post
what sense of satisfaction to you get condemning Harvey? He is the one who has to live with what he had done. He has pretty much lost everything he worked his entire life building (just like Bill Cosby).
I don't get satisfaction from condemning him. I'm just doing it because it seems he irreparably harmed a lot of people.
Quote:
Do you think Harvey is the devil? because if he is the devil I say let's call an exorcist to get him out of here.
I'm not religious anyway, but let's wait on the exorcist until Harvey has peed on the rug or had sex with a crucifix.
Quote:
why did he do these things? It probably has something to do with his upbringing. ...unless you believe he is a product of pure evil, he did these things as a response to something that probably happened to him when he was young. Well adjusted people don't suddenly turn into sociopaths.
His upbringing, his being conditioned by an environment that promotes mistreatment of women, his having a powerful position, so he has a lot of reasons for doing it. It's still wrong.
Quote:
Guys like you and I will never know what that much power can do to a person. ...what if you were a big time movie producer with more power than most of Hollywood. Can you say for certain that it would not corrupt you in any way?? ...I'm honest enough to say that if I had that power and I was surrounded by beautiful women I might be tempted to use it. No, not rape or coercion but maybe a little "I scratch your back - you scratch mine".... if they were willing.
We do know that having that much power can lead to an abuse of that power. If I was a powerful producer I might be tempted, & if I made a proposition like that to someone trying to get a job, it's completely wrong, whether the person was willing or not. And if they report me, I deserve to be condemned. Scratching each other's back is okay I guess if we couldn't reach the itch ourselves & if it was consensual & if it was so super itchy it kept us from doing our jobs.
Quote:
this "shockwave" is only a forced - politically correct response to something that I'm sure EVERYONE knows happens in Hollywood and everywhere else on a daily basis. Do you think Harvey invented the casting couch,,,, and how come a guy like me who has never worked in Hollywood knows about the casting couch? Answer: because EVERYONE knows about it.
Politically correct or not, even if Everyone knows it happens everywhere, even if Harvey didn't invent the couch, even if you've never worked in Hollywood but know about it, we still have to stop sexual harassment. How would you feel if it happened to your mother, sister, daughter, wife?

Last edited by buscando; 12-06-2017 at 02:24 AM.
buscando is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2017, 06:40 AM   #52
WalterB
Basic Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Rotterdam Area, The Netherlands
Posts: 3,408
It is true: it is a world dominated by men.
Even sexual education (if offered at schools) divides the world like that: first menstruation vs first ejaculation.
Whole societies teach their children that girls should dress and behave 'properly' and that those who don't are sluts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Velusion View Post
...............

Come on...... this "shockwave" is only a forced - politically correct response to something that I'm sure EVERYONE knows happens in Hollywood and everywhere else on a daily basis.............
Politically correct.
And socially, mentally, humanly, emotionally correct.

For too long it was 'politically' or 'financially correct' to uphold an omerta around predators in power.
It was about time that the people who really know act.

'Politically correct' has too often become a phrase to try to deflect* from the content of what is being said, because many claim that 'PC' is bad. It has become a newspeak word to attack unwelcome messages and changes or to suggest it hides a truth.
'Hypocracy' hides truths and sometimes when people say 'PC' they mean the hypocarcy to give a socially acceptable answer. Like politician promising to help you and then only help themselves and their friends. (I understand where it comes from.:p )
But sometimes 'PC' has just become a 'weapon' in debates, too often used so people can judge the message without talking about the message. (Just like the phrases 'fake news' or 'socialist' have become closing arguments instead of opening arguments followed by the thoughts/facts/reasoning behind it.)

*) I'm not saying you are deflecting. Just realise how the meaning of the word shifts more and more towards 'discrediting'. At this rate the law of Godwin needs to be amended with or 'PC'. ;-)
WalterB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2017, 07:41 AM   #53
sfoster
IndieTalk Moderator
 
sfoster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 5,042
Harvey allegedly told aspiring actresses that he received sexual favors from Renee Zellweger, Gwyneth Paltrow and Charlize Theron in exchange for their career advancement.
Renee's representative spoke to People and denied the claim. Seems better not to even give a response.. once you give a response it becomes news and they write articles.

sfoster is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2017, 08:49 AM   #54
Velusion
Basic Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Utah
Posts: 102
Quote:
Harvey allegedly told aspiring actresses that he received sexual favors from Renee Zellweger, Gwyneth Paltrow and Charlize Theron in exchange for their career advancement.
and if that is true, look what happened to them. They all became wealthy and famous actresses.

They willingly gave Harvey what he wanted and he in turn, gave them what they wanted.... and now some of them are complaining. Whatever they did, they did voluntarily as far as we know. We were not in the room....and it really is none of our business anyway.

Point your finger all you want, the world DOES work this way sometimes. I'm not passing judgment on anyone... Two adults can do whatever they want to each other as long as both are willing. Harvey is not Bill Cosby. He did not drug woman then rape them. He may have said "let me do you and I'll make you a star" or something to that affect. Big difference. The women can say NO! but they choose not to. They weigh their options; let the fat sweaty pig touch me and have the movie career I've been dreaming of my whole life or say no, in which case I may or may not get in this movie or any other... By the way, I haven't read a single story about an actress who was blacklisted from Hollywood because she would not play Harvey's game. Everyone assumes ol' Harv would end their career if they didn't play ball. Speculation.

I know I know. All of you are shocked at my heartless siding with Harvey... but I'm not siding with anyone. I'm simply watching this social comedy and commenting on it.... It makes me giggle when people pontificate about how terrible someone is when in fact they are doing what many before them have done and many after him will do. Same with the actors and actresses. They will continue to go along with it just so they can get their shot at stardom. They want that more than anything. For my whole life I wanted to be a successful film maker more than anything. I was never put in a position of having to consider what "off the board" things I might do to make it a reality but,,, well, you never know

Condemn me to death, fellas. It's ok because I know that what people say publicly and what they think in the privacy of their own mind are sometimes two completely different things. Condemn a fat unattractive man for wanting beautiful woman and for using his power to get them but remember, these women were not mental cases. They could have said no.

Last edited by Velusion; 12-08-2017 at 08:52 AM.
Velusion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2017, 08:52 AM   #55
sfoster
IndieTalk Moderator
 
sfoster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 5,042
Quote:
Originally Posted by Velusion View Post
They willingly gave Harvey what he wanted and he in turn, gave them what they wanted.... and now some of them are complaining.
Renee Zellweger, Gwyneth Paltrow and Charlize Theron have made no allegations about sexual assault or as you put it, complaints.
Where are you getting this from?

I think you might be confusing what allegedly happened with one woman and applying that to a totally different scenario that happened to other women.
Just becomes some are complicit doesn't mean that others aren't victims.

Last edited by sfoster; 12-08-2017 at 08:54 AM.
sfoster is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2017, 09:28 AM   #56
buscando
Basic Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: L.A.
Posts: 464
Velusion, I guess you feel what Harvey did was fine as long as it was consensual & because you might do the same thing if you were him & this happens all the time.
So is it okay with you if someone propositioned your mother, sister, daughter, or wife & they had to make that choice to have sex for their career?
It wouldn't be okay with me.

Last edited by buscando; 12-08-2017 at 09:30 AM.
buscando is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2017, 10:03 AM   #57
Velusion
Basic Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Utah
Posts: 102
LOL! Some people say the funniest things. No. It wouldn't be ok with me but in the real world is does happen.

Listen, If all we're doing in this thread is complaining that the world is unfair and some people take advantage of other people then I agree.... but so what? This is the world we live in.
Velusion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2017, 10:18 AM   #58
buscando
Basic Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: L.A.
Posts: 464
I'm glad I made you laugh.
The point is even though this is the world we live in, we have the ability to change things & that starts with our thoughts & attitudes.
buscando is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2017, 10:24 AM   #59
Velusion
Basic Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Utah
Posts: 102
Very optimistic view, buscando.
Velusion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2017, 10:54 AM   #60
buscando
Basic Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: L.A.
Posts: 464
Thoughts & ideas are powerful.
The things Martin Luther King Jr. & Gandhi accomplished all started with thoughts & ideas.
Same thing with Hitler & Manson.
buscando is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:21 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.


©IndieTalk