Is a Sony F3 worthwhile buying in 2015??

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IronFilm

Does a Sony F3 still make sense to people in 2015? Because have you seen on eBay lately just how cheap they're going? :-o You can pick up a Sony F3 for similar pricing to a new BMCC.

The expensive SxS media puts me off, but this appears to be an easy way to avoid that expense:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/786662-REG/Sonnet_SD_SXS_E34_SDHC_Adapter_for_SxS.html

For the only extra grand or so over the cost of an AF100 or FS100 it would seem like an F3 is worth it if you're looking for an older large sensor camcorder on the ultra cheap.


(as I've been seriously looking into getting an AF100 for only a grand, just so I can have an "impressive" pro looking camera to impress the brides/guests at wedding shoots, with the rest of my kit being 1x GH4 + 1x GH2 + 2x GH1. I know images is all that should matter, and appearances shouldn't matter, but in real life first impressions do matter. If a few extra hundred dollars to get an AF100 over GH2 with the same image quality, then leads to more bookings, that it is money very well spent. But then this logic dangerously leads me down the path to spend even more on a Sony F3... as then I could use the F3 on serious jobs too)

For context, I also own a kitted out BMPCC (that I love love) but it can look like a glorified smartphone to some people :-/ (until they see the images produced! But again, first impressions do matter and last)
 
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Came across this interesting comparison from an owner of both an F3 and a RED Scarlet (which would be waaaaaay outside my price range to consider a Scarlet!):

http://timurcivan.com/2012/04/an-examination-of-sony-f3-and-red-scarlet-a-direct-comparison/

<<The biggest problem i have is deciding between the two cameras. The RED is simply razor sharp, has a punchy slick look, and has the easiest onset ergonomics and workflow. The footage is 16bit 4K RAW. I mean, the camera is the size of a Hassleblad and gives you amazing images.

The F3 on the other hand, is night vision, which makes for simpler indie shooting on lower budgets where you dont have access to bigger units. It also has more useable dynamic rage, and its color is in my opinion the best in digital right now short of the Alexa. ( Though REDColor3 is REALLLLLY good!) Case in point, in the skin tone test you just watched, the color of the wall in the F3 footage is completely accurate. Thats exactly what my wall looks like, but looks quite magenta in the RED footage. If I fight the magenta with a bit of green, the skin tone gets thrown out of whack. This green/magenta balancing act is a definite pitfall of the RED, even with REDColor3.

This real issue is that it comes down to image quality. I find myself, shooting films and documentary on the F3, but commercials, music videos, and corporate spots on the RED. When it needs to look natural, i use the F3. When it needs to look crisp and slick, RED.>>


This guy's logic is in a similar-ish headspace to where I am at too (C100 vs BMCC vs F3):
http://www.craigspenceley.com/dr-dynamic-range-love-chose-buy-sony-f3/
 
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I'd disagree, because you'd be surprised how cheaply you can get an F3.

And if high quality 10bit ProRes HQ 1080 at up to 60fps is all you desire, then you'll struggle to come up with a notably better camera for its price, you'd have to move up a lot closer to Arri Alexa pricing territory to get an markedly better image.

Together with my BMPCC for when I need a smaller camera (such as when used on a gimbal), this will make a fantastic combo.
 
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I've almost completed my initial kit out for now. The last remaining items I still need to decide on buying is: a second dovetail (one for the tripod, one for the monopod. The camera already came with one dovetail), a fluid head for the monopod that can handle 10kg or more, and maybe a tripod (as I expect my current one won't quite handle the full set up).

Haven't looked enough into which fluid head, so still quite clueless as what to get! I'd appreciate any suggestions? Am considering a couple already, but they're only capable to a max 8kg payload, which I suspect in a worse case scenario could come up a couple of kilos short.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pro-JY0506-...ad-Drag-slider-rail-max-8KG-load/121491999464
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Miliboo-MYT...k-Release-Plate-for-Canon-Nikon-/271837439808

I'm looking at one of these dovetails:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lanparte-15...-Tripod-Baseplate-DSLR-Rig-BMCC-/370856985673
http://www.ebay.com/itm/45cm-long-D...with-1-4-20-3-8-Hole-InnoCamera-/171787795433
http://www.camtreerigs.com/camtree-19-15mm-base-plate-with-dovetail-tripod-plate-arri-standard.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...WC_151100_Safety_Dovetail_8.html/prm/alsVwDtl
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1100200-REG/lanparte_dp_15_dovetail_plate.html

This is the tripod I'm considering:
http://www.came-tv.com/came15t-pro-carbon-tripod-for-red-epic-cage-dslr-rigs-p-573.html
 
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Is there more than one standard for these dovetails??? :-/ I had guessed there was only the Arri standard dovetail.

As I ordered this (which is Arri standard):
http://www.proaimshop.com/pas/CAMTR...With-Dovetail-Tripod-Plate-ARRi-Standard.html

The camera came with a baseplate and dovetail, TILTA LSW baseplate. And this CAMTREE dovetail won't match with it.

I can't seem to find online the specific "TILTA LSW Baseplate" which I own (that is the words on the side of it).
Guessing it is a bit older model which is not being sold anywhere.
As far as I can tell by looking over Tilta's current products they make two kinds of dovetails:
Arri standard and Sony VCT-U14.
Unless... is "Lightweight Standard" a third standard for dovetails? I'm unfortunately suspecting it is!

Although that doesn't make sense:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/992650-REG/ikan_tt_c07_12_2060_2575_120ex_dovetail_plate.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/992649-REG/ikan_tt_c16_10_lightweight_dovetail_plate.html

They're both called "lightweight", yet the 1st one doesn't work with mine (I know as I have an "Arri Standard" dovetail which doesn't work, unless... "Lightweight Arri Standard" is something specific and different to "Arri Standard". While the second one looks like it is identical to the one which came with my camera, and is what I'm seeking a second one of)

Is Tilta with their 15mm baseplates using their own made up "standard"??
 
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I would say the Sony F3 is a worthwhile buy even now, in 2016. It's nearest competitor is probably the Sony FS700. Locally, someone was selling the FS700 at exactly the same price of a Sony F3 and I went for the F3.
My reasons were:
Better sensor ( CineAlta )
1080p is all I want for now, I'm in Australia, and believe it or not, 9 out of 10 programs on TV are still broadcast on SD ( 16:9 aspect ratio makes people think is HD but its not )
I wanted a cinematic image that could clearly beat the 5D Mark III in low light and sharpness. The FS700 could not do that. And if it did, the F3 was still sharper and better in low light.
10 bit S-Log and uncompressed RGB 444 output.
More professional image manipulation parameters.

I will miss the slow motion, but that's the trade off.

The only other two cameras that could compete with the F3 for low budget cinema in 2016 are probably the Canon C300 and the FS7, but they are both still almost double the price of an F3.
 
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Jimmy Jib said:
I would say the Sony F3 is a worthwhile buy even now, in 2016. It's nearest competitor is probably the Sony FS700. Locally, someone was selling the FS700 at exactly the same price of a Sony F3 and I went for the F3.
My reasons were:
Better sensor ( CineAlta )
1080p is all I want for now, I'm in Australia, and believe it or not, 9 out of 10 programs on TV are still broadcast on SD ( 16:9 aspect ratio makes people think is HD but its not )
I wanted a cinematic image that could clearly beat the 5D Mark III in low light and sharpness. The FS700 could not do that. And if it did, the F3 was still sharper and better in low light.
10 bit S-Log and uncompressed RGB 444 output.
More professional image manipulation parameters.

I will miss the slow motion, but that's the trade off.

The only other two cameras that could compete with the F3 for low budget cinema in 2016 are probably the Canon C300 and the FS7, but they are both still almost double the price of an F3.
Click to expand...

Yes - I've been looking seriously at the F3. It is going for $2300USD in good condition (with a Nikon to FZ adapter) here in the States - about what you'd pay for a small sensor pro camcorder or an A7s!
 
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I've seen comparison tests with the F3 holding its own, and even edging out cameras such as the C300 and RED Epic on vimeo. Of course grading comes into it, and lighting as well, but it's a very competitive camera .
 
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I got my F3 for $1500AUD which was a steal!

I really enjoy what I get out of it with my Shogun - it's unbeatable really for the price of it. HD and 50fps max frame rate are not deal-breakers for me: If I could get an Alexa Classic (HD only, 60fps max frame rate) for $1500 it would be a no-brainer, so to get an image that can hold up to an Alexa for that price is pretty incredible (and you get internal NDs to boot).
 
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I've never seen an F3 for under $4000 AU, so if you got yours for $1500 I hope it was in okay condition and not with a million hours on it. Also important to realize that the F3, like most other "affordable" cinema cameras needs to be rigged. And sometimes this is the most expensive part... although it can be done for a fraction of the cost buying used on ebay.
 
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Jimmy Jib said:
I've never seen an F3 for under $4000 AU, so if you got yours for $1500 I hope it was in okay condition and not with a million hours on it. Also important to realize that the F3, like most other "affordable" cinema cameras needs to be rigged. And sometimes this is the most expensive part... although it can be done for a fraction of the cost buying used on ebay.
Click to expand...

Honestly, I was a bit concerned, but I paid through PayPal so figured if I'd been duped, I could get my money back. It had a bit under 400 hours on it - which is not nothing, but it's really not that much. It's 40 shoot days. It wasn't brand new condition - but honestly, for the price I paid the condition and hours was impressive. The guy I bought it off was selling all his gear.

Re: rigging, I bought a $250 top plate for the F3 for $9 in a stock clearance. Really, when you're buying stuff for a discontinued camera, it's mostly all already depreciated - you can get the ET riser/shoulder pad for like $300 - it cost $1500+ new.

The reality is, every camera needs rigging to get it working the way you want - many F3 kits for sale come with some of this stuff to start with. Realistically, a heavier camera like an F3 can be easier to rig, because it's easier to balance the weight.
 
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Okay, I see. But I meant accessories, which don't go down in price as much. Things like a good mattebox, follow focus gear, SxS cards, EVF, etc. Just the universal base plate I want ( Zacuto ) is about $700 AU, and it is assumed you've got a solid tripod. Otherwise, add $1000. Things get interesting after you add the universal base plate to a good solid tripod. You can, for example, start messing around with heavy cinema lenses, or power up your F3 with an oversized Anton Bauer / Vlock battery like you see in this pic:

2mg9gr9.jpg
 
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Jimmy Jib said:
Okay, I see. But I meant accessories, which don't go down in price as much. Things like a good mattebox, follow focus gear, SxS cards, EVF, etc. Just the universal base plate I want ( Zacuto ) is about $700 AU, and it is assumed you've got a solid tripod. Otherwise, add $1000. Things get interesting after you add the universal base plate to a good solid tripod. You can, for example, start messing around with heavy cinema lenses, or power up your F3 with an oversized Anton Bauer / Vlock battery like you see in this pic:
Click to expand...

None of that is unique to the F3, or even big cameras. If you want to handhold any camera properly, you're going to want a decent handheld rig, maybe a follow focus... Etc etc.

There are people who use cinema lenses and V-Locks on their A7s'. You don't have to - you don't have to do either of those things with an F3 either.
 
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You do have to if you want to get the most out of your F3... but most of us end up hiring of course... but for me, I did not upgrade to a Cinealta camera to end up with 4:2:0 8 bit ... so I opted for an external recorder, the PIX240i. It will allow me to do 10 bit ProRes 422 and even 4444 SLOG. Note that this one accessory set me back more than AU $3000 ! Expensive.. but it makes the PMW F3 competitive against the Canon C300 and Sony F7 , at least for HD.
 
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Jimmy Jib said:
You do have to if you want to get the most out of your F3... but most of us end up hiring of course... but for me, I did not upgrade to a Cinealta camera to end up with 4:2:0 8 bit ... so I opted for an external recorder, the PIX240i. It will allow me to do 10 bit ProRes 422 and even 4444 SLOG. Note that this one accessory set me back more than AU $3000 ! Expensive.. but it makes the PMW F3 competitive against the Canon C300 and Sony F7 , at least for HD.
Click to expand...

I paid $1800 for my Shogun (lightly used) and $1500 for my F3. That brings a total cost to $3300. Significantly cheaper than even an FS5.

It costs about the same as a used C100 or similar. Except you can use t he Shogun on any camera. You'd be surprised how well the internal codec stuff holds up, actually. It's not like shooting 4:2:0 8-bit on a DSLR.

Anyway, that's really besides the point. People buy Shoguns for their A7s' and GH4s to get better quality out of them. The F3 is no different to any big camera on the market. It even sat in a position where you didn't/don't need to buy expensive V-mounts or AB's to power it. The media is expensive, but an SD adapter is cheap as.

In addition to all that, there are plenty of HD-only recorders that you can pick up for <$800. I've seen HD recorders being sold second hand for $300.
 
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Yah, a lot of dirt cheap external recorders are showing up on ebay, but some of them are HDMI only. The Shogun looks good, but I've heard the Atomos screens crack easily and also I don't think the Shogun can do 10 bit ProRes 4444 . If it could... I would reconsider, although the PIX240 can also do 10 bit ProRes 4444, and although I've seen it on ebay for AU $2000 , I've read it has some reliability issues on RedUser, with some people having to use the internal codec recorded to SxS cards when the PIX failed. These problems are to be expected of a first generation product that's why I prefer the updated PIX240i.
 
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