"There are 2 ways to shoot a scene and 1 of them is wrong."

You don't have to be groundbreaking. When starting out as a filmmaker doing your first short, your goal is to begin to feel comfortable working with cast, crew, and gear, as well as learning the very basic fundamentals and stages of crafting a film.

The way you are truly going to evoke an emotional response from your audience is having motivation behind your shots. If you notice, the position and movement of a camera in each shot of a film has purpose. OTS shots can signify a character's entrapment or attraction to another character, other times they just look good for dialogue sequences. Dolly shots can be used to pull us into a situation, or disconnect us from a character by moving out. Picking shots for a reason, with motivation and thought put into them, is what will get you those cool looking shots. But for know, just make a short film and the get an idea of how to make a film. As you continue on, learn about more techniques, and use those techniques in your work.

ChimpPhobiaFilms said:

You don't have to be groundbreaking. When starting out as a filmmaker doing your first short, your goal is to begin to feel comfortable working with cast, crew, and gear, as well as learning the very basic fundamentals and stages of crafting a film.

The way you are truly going to evoke an emotional response from your audience is having motivation behind your shots. If you notice, the position and movement of a camera in each shot of a film has purpose. OTS shots can signify a character's entrapment or attraction to another character, other times they just look good for dialogue sequences. Dolly shots can be used to pull us into a situation, or disconnect us from a character by moving out. Picking shots for a reason, with motivation and thought put into them, is what will get you those cool looking shots. But for know, just make a short film and the get an idea of how to make a film. As you continue on, learn about more techniques, and use those techniques in your work.

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i'll try to keep purpose in mind when choosing shots, thanks!

RealJasonBourne said:

I dont have any experience creating a short film (...) in my mind only basic shots come to me (all frozen tripod shots). I need to break through into the thought process of "we'll have the camera start low and pan up" or "have the dolly pan sideways" stuff like that instead of basic linear garbage.

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You're overthinking this. If this is your first film, you're going to have enough issues to juggle with basic lighting, exposure & latitude problems, and probably on-the-fly changes to the actual shotlist based on what location you really end up with. There's nothing wrong with starting out with the basics, and building your skills with experience.

"Basic linear garbage" has been telling stories on film for over 100 years. I think you can make it work, too.
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Zensteve said:

You're overthinking this. If this is your first film, you're going to have enough issues to juggle with basic lighting, exposure & latitude problems, and probably on-the-fly changes to the actual shotlist based on what location you really end up with. There's nothing wrong with starting out with the basics, and building your skills with experience.

"Basic linear garbage" has been telling stories on film for over 100 years. I think you can make it work, too.
.

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loool ok thanks for the advice, I hope I don't run into those problems.

On top of all that, don't be afraid to both, get the shots you think you want, and also, get the safe shots (with enough coverage) just in case what you ideally planned doesn't work out the way you intend. With experience, you'll learn over time what shots you never use (so you can avoid shooting them in the future) but until then, get the coverage, just in case.

Listen, I think that what the others are saying is right, but have you tried closing your eyes and imagining the scene? I mean really actually close your eyes, chuck on the right music to match that scene even if no music is to be put into the film, just music that gives you the emotion you want that shot to portray, and then imagined that scene exactly as it should be, in your head. Forget camera angles and everything to do with making a film. Just relax, sit back on a chair or couch, and really daydream the hell out of that scene. Imagine the faces of the people in that scene. Imagine the scenery behind or around them. Once you have that in your head, I want you to keep your eyes closed. spend 5 minutes with that scene in your head. By the end, you will open your eyes, and you will know what to do with the camera, not to make a flashy shot or whatever, but to see that scene exactly as you want it to be seen. You will know what shot to take, and how to take it.

Hope this helps.

you need to understand the connection between the camera and the shot, if you do not understand then how can you possibly create a good shot, this is a problem that alot of people have, they place the camera wherever because their friends did it or they saw it in a movie, but your wrong to do that, you must position the camera where the shot will enhance the vibe, feel the emotion and correctly bring across the sense of feeling of which you were intending.

thats why there are certain people doing certain jobs so they dont have to worry about anything else, you need to pick a job and get someone else to do the shots for you, maybe in your head you know how you want the shot to look or what to happen, but i dont think you grasp how your going to do it properly, find someone else to take the workload off you.

Thanks for the advice.

I have a lot of problems thinking when it comes to "setting up" a conversation scene or having a character go from point A to B (in a room). Even for just having a character go from standing up to sitting down mid conversation.

My noob thought process says to get a wide long range shot of them doing the action but then after watching TV shows or movies I see that its possible to show these things with even close ups or over the shoulder shots.

It's hard to think instead of just cutting to a wide shot I could have a tracking medium up close shot and even and over the shoulder tracking shot.

Is this just an experience thing? I want to be able to get a 3D way of thinking instead of this 2D way.

FantasyFilmProductions said:

Listen, I think that what the others are saying is right, but have you tried closing your eyes and imagining the scene? I mean really actually close your eyes, chuck on the right music to match that scene even if no music is to be put into the film, just music that gives you the emotion you want that shot to portray, and then imagined that scene exactly as it should be, in your head. Forget camera angles and everything to do with making a film. Just relax, sit back on a chair or couch, and really daydream the hell out of that scene. Imagine the faces of the people in that scene. Imagine the scenery behind or around them. Once you have that in your head, I want you to keep your eyes closed. spend 5 minutes with that scene in your head. By the end, you will open your eyes, and you will know what to do with the camera, not to make a flashy shot or whatever, but to see that scene exactly as you want it to be seen. You will know what shot to take, and how to take it.

Hope this helps.

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I had my scene visioned in my head of how it was supposed to look on a specific shot but when I did this shot in real life it looked like complete garbage and made me not know if I should trust what I vision. It could be the location/lighting/camera/not the right actor but I'm not sure.

It's hard to think instead of just cutting to a wide shot I could have a tracking medium up close shot and even and over the shoulder tracking shot.

Is this just an experience thing? I want to be able to get a 3D way of thinking instead of this 2D way.

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May I suggest instead of thinking of angles, wide shots, mid shots, close ups etc, instead, think of the emotion you want portrayed within the scene. Once you have worked out the emotion, think of what shot best holds that emotion.

For instance, a forced close up too early will make an audience uncomfortable. This is great if you're trying to make the audience uncomfortable. If you're trying to get them to attach to a character, then that's a problem.

In your example of switching to a wide angle, there's nothing wrong with that, so long as you're aware of what the wide angle will do. If you go from a close up to a wide angle, you tend to detach your audience from the characters (or at least move them away from). The wide angle may be correct if you need to establish geography or re-establish the environment or situation so the audience better understands the story. If you've gone from a highly emotional scene with close ups to a wide, you may lose some or all of that emotion.

Each situation is different.

To learn how to shoot these kind of scenes I suggest that you find scenes that portray similar movements to what you want with the same emotional intensity. Copy the shots done in those scenes. Add some extra variations and see if those variations improve or detracts from the work. Experiment.

I also suggest to pay special attention to transitions (from one action and/or scene to another).

There's nothing wrong with a meat and potato shot list. Don't be afraid to simplify a scene if you think it's too complicated for you to design and shoot. You'll improve over time.

Block the actors… place the camera second. You'll figure out how to start considering camera during the blocking later. The action is more important… at least to begin with. Once the blocking is done, FIND the cool shots in there. It'll make the action in front of the camera more believable if the actors are doing something that feels real.

RealJasonBourne said:

I had my scene visioned in my head of how it was supposed to look on a specific shot but when I did this shot in real life it looked like complete garbage and made me not know if I should trust what I vision. It could be the location/lighting/camera/not the right actor but I'm not sure.

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What made the shot look bad?

Was it colour?
Exposure?
Bad film quality?
The actors?
Position of camera?
Movement of camera?
Shadows?
Did the lens show too much or not enough of what you wanted to see?

Only one of these, being the position of the camera would suggest your head was wrong.

I haven't read all the responses to this thread so I'm sure someone else mentioned this, but just make sure you have a REASON for each camera set up and shot. Why are you putting the camera there? what does it say about the tone of the scene? the character? the pace of the film?

When in doubt, shoot different options and choose the best option in the editing room when you have more time to think it over!