"Obligatory" lens widths?

BeyondersINC · Dec 27, 2012

So I am just wondering, which widths are "obligatory" in filmshooting.

Is one 35mm lens enough or is it almost required to have a wider range of alternatives?
Of course I understand that the more i have, the more possibilities i have, but there has to be some kind of standards.

Thanks!

escher · Dec 27, 2012

You also have to take into consideration the size of your sensor. A 35mm lens on a crop-factor camera or standard 35mm movie camera will not look the same as on a 35mm full-frame sensor or vistavision negative (35mm film run sideways instead of vertical).

You'll definitely want more than just a 35mm lens so you can get a variety of shots that fit whatever tone/emotion/subject you want.

For a crop-factor (1.5x - 1.6x) camera:

< 35mm == wide-angle, wide depth-of-field
35mm == normal, no distortion/zoom
50mm == good medium-angle/portrait lens
> 50mm == more zoomed-in, shallower DOF

For a full-frame camera:
< 50mm == wide-angle
50mm == normal
> 50mm == zoomed-in

BeyondersINC · Dec 27, 2012

Okay wow, thanks a lot!
I never knew the sensors made that much of a difference.

This just made me level up in camera knowledge. Thanks man.

I'm thinking about buying the Samyang/Rokinon 35mm cine lens as my first lens (after the kit lens with eos 600d) and since that'll play out as normal on my 600d I think it will work fine.

escher · Dec 27, 2012

I tend to find "normal" lenses... kinda boring for most shots. You'll get more dynamic-looking framing if you have a wide-angle and a telephoto, using the normal only when necessary.

The 600D is a crop-factor camera, so I'd recommend having an 18, 50, and 75/80 as your base primes (if you can swing that many lenses). If possible, you'll also want one very narrow focal length lens in the range of 135-200mm for shots where you want a very narrow depth-of-field (great for closeups where you want your subject very isolated from the background). A 35mm lens (the "normal" for the 600D) I would consider optional. You'll get better shots by just moving the camera back and using the 50mm.

Edit: Oh! Nearly forgot! Canon has a very inexpensive 50mm lens (nicknamed "the nifty fifty"). It's cheaply-constructed, but has pretty good image quality and opens up wide for low-light and shallow DOF shots.

BeyondersINC · Dec 27, 2012

Okay.

I think I will only be able to afford one lens to start out with, and I am going to be doing a lot of indoor scenes (which means less space to work on) - so which lens would you recommend me buying as a starter?

Perhaps the 24mm Samyang cine lens?
Or something entirely different?

escher · Dec 27, 2012

Just one lens?

Yikes.

If you're stuck with a single lens then you'll want a zoom lens to give you a range (unless you really want the challenge of being stuck with a single FOV). The downside to zooms is that they don't let in as much light as primes. if you're shooting indoors you're going to be stuck with grainy footage due to the high ISO you'll have to shoot at.

The general rule of zooms is that the greater the range, the worse the quality. If you can get away with two lenses, I'd go with an 18-55mm and a 70-300mm or 70-200mm. That will give you good FOV coverage, although you'll need to use as much light as possible -- regular room lighting won't be nearly adequate.

This is why primes are nice -- not only do you get a better image, but they open up wider so you can shoot in lower light. (There are some longer zoom lenses that have wide apertures but they're very expensive. My 70-200mm f2.8 cost around $2400, but I can shoot in situations where a 70-300mm f4.5-5.8 will completely fail.)

Another possibility: Since autofocus is nearly useless when shooting video with a DSLR, you could get an M42 adaptor and pick up some cheaper manual-only primes from e-bay. I know there are a lot of filmmakers who've gone this route.

BeyondersINC · Dec 27, 2012

I think i'm going to stick with my 18-55 kit lens, get the 35 mm samyang lens and then save up for a zoom lens. Most probably a 70-200mm with decent aperture.

I really want that image quality and control of the cine lens - alas I may very well just be overhyped on it cause of all the recommendations i've gotten on it and the low price tag.

escher · Dec 27, 2012

I just looked up those Samyang cine lenses and they look pretty sweet (especially the geared focus and aperture rings). I might have to purchase one for myself. (I already have the geared-focus Zeiss 18mm, 35mm, and 50mm lenses, but those don't have manual aperture control.)

Keep in mind that they're at the wide end of the spectrum, so you'll still need something on the longer end to balance it out. A 50mm lens will help fill that gap for closeups (if you use a wide angle for closeups you'll get some pretty unflattering distortion of your actors), but you'll still want something that goes over 70mm eventually.

I'm still recommending a 50mm prime because the kit lens doesn't open as wide as you'd probably like for indoor shooting. Granted, the kit 18-55m does deliver rather good image quality if you've got the light for it.

Lucky Hardwood · Dec 27, 2012

From Escher's responses, I'm guessing that you are working with a Canon camera. I don't know what your budget is but, Canon has a killer 24-105mm f1.4L IS lens that retails for $1250.00. If you know a guy at a camera store, you might could get him/her to slide you the deal from heaven on that lens. The 24-105 is the kit lens on the 5D mark iii and the new 6D. Sometimes dumb people will want the body only and the retailer will oblige them by splitting the kit and selling the lens separately. If you are nice enough, or a good enough customer, they might sell you the $1250 lens for the $600 that is costs in the kit. With that lens you get a constant aperture zoom lens with an f1.4 on the wide end and a range that will cover short wide to medium telephoto on a crop sensor camera and wide to short telephoto on a full frame camera. Plus, you get L glass build quality and optics. It makes a great go to lens for most occasions.

jax_rox · Dec 28, 2012

If you're buying one prime, I'd make it a 35mm or a 50mm. You don't want a super-wide 24mm (especially if you're on a FF camera), and you don't want a telephoto lens.

Sensor size has an effect, yes. But, don't worry about it too much, especially if you're only starting out (ie not used to the looks of lenses). Crop factor was a term brought in so those guys who were used to shooting 35mm stills could get used to what their lenses would look like on digital cameras. It has little bearing on the camera or lens itself, and for some reason DSLR users make sensor size out to be something ridiculously important, and tend to look down upon anything non-Full Frame for some reason, when really if you're on a large sensor already, it's not that big a deal. All you need to worry about is if a certain lens covers your sensor area.

Lucky Hardwood said:
Canon has a killer 24-105mm f1.4L IS lens that retails for $1250.00 [...] an f1.4 on the wide end

To clear up, no such lens exists as a Canon 24-105mm F1.4L. It is in fact a 24-105mm f4.0 L. It's not a bad lens, but it's not the greatest for low light stuff. It's certainly better than any kit lens, but for $1200, you could get 50mm, 35mm and 85mm primes faster than f/4.0

Lucky Hardwood · Dec 28, 2012

My camera guy gave me the specs. I shall have to check Canon's website.

Edit: Okay, I checked Canon's site and it appears that I was misinformed. Bummer, I was really looking forward to getting one of those phantom lenses.

escher · Dec 28, 2012

Another reaaaally important note: prime lenses will give you FAR less edge distortion (barrel/pincushion) than a zoom lens set to the same FOV. I tested this out directly with my 24-70mm set to 35mm and 50mm and compared to the primes I have.

I was actually pretty surprised just how much more distortion there was in the zoom lens. You don't see it as much in stills, but in video it really stands out when you move or pan the camera around.