Need advice on assembling attractive Scarlet Rental package with DIT

dribness · Mar 12, 2013

Hey everyone!

I am looking to assemble a Scarlet package that will look very attractive to people making feature films. I got into this business because I just love making movies, and after buying the Scarlet, I really want to be a part of making great films, wherever they may be.

Here is a list of equipment I have.

RED Scarlet Canon AL Mount
1x RED 5" Touch LCD
1x RED Handle
3x 64GB Redmag SSD
2x Anton Bauer D-90 batteries, w/ charger
4x Redvolt Batteries, w/ charger
1x RED Station USB 3.0
1x Redrock Follow Focus
1x RED top plate
1x WC LW 15mm Rod system
1x Miller DS-25 Tripod

Lenses
Canon 24-70mm L
Canon 70-200mm L
Canon 100mm Macro L
Tokina 11-16mm

My services would also be a part of the package. Because my goal is to make films, I would like to serve in any capacity, whether it be DIT, 2nd, 1st, or DP. So I was wondering you opinions on how to price this package.

When pricing, should I have just one price, which would include the package and my services, or should I have a rental price, and mention the cost of travel, room & board. I guess in another words, I'm renting out my package, and it comes with free service (but would need to cover travel expenses).

Also, would it be a good idea to have some sort of commission for people that help me complete a booking?

Some of you might be wondering why so aggressive? Well, my scarlet's been collecting dust for some time, and I've been really thinking about why I bought it in the first place. For me, this whole thing isn't about making money. It's all about making movies.

If I could afford to do it for free, I would, but I ended up spending my life's saving on everything, and only sustaining myself with a small job on the side, which barely makes enough to get by. What I really want is to meet some awesome filmmakers and make great movies together.

So if there is any advice on how to price this package and get connected with filmmakers making films, I would be incredibly grateful.

Happy filming!

Zensteve · Mar 12, 2013

Hopefully people will insist you rent some real primes to use. :hmm:

How much competition do you have over there, in your city/area?

Sweetie · Mar 12, 2013

Here's a problem you may encounter:

Some people consider the Red cameras to be temperamental. What would happen if the camera stopped working? If the answer is, it'll stop working and no replacement is available, then you'll need to price your rental in such a way that whoever does the production is taking on the risk of camera failure.

would it be a good idea to have some sort of commission for people that help me complete a booking?

Yes, that's a good idea.

As for price, for you to get involved with productions, your best option is first to get out there and start shooting, even if it's for free to start with, then slowly creep up your price once demand has outstripped supply. Eventually you'll find the right price point. Be professional at every point. Always treat each job as if you're getting paid full rates. This is something you should consider seeing (I assume) you don't have any money to advertise your services.

Alternatively, you could check out your competition and adjust your price accordingly.

Good luck.

dribness · Mar 13, 2013

Unfortunately I'm not sure how much business is in the area. Any advice on finding that out?

Sweetie · Mar 13, 2013

Ask your competition and hope like hell they're stupid enough to tell you.

jax_rox · Mar 13, 2013

1) Get the PL mount
2) Get some real lenses

A Scarlet with an EF mount is about as attractive as a C300 (see: not at all). C300s also rent cheaper than REDs.
Canon still lenses are about as attractive to me as my grandmother (see: not at all)

How are you pricing this? If it undercuts the competition significantly, you may find people interested, but if it sits in a similar price arena, then I don't know that you'd find too many takers, especially as a one-man owner/operator with relatively low-budget support equipment.

I personally think you're better off selling yourself as a RED owner/operator than to simply rent out your RED camera package.

Also, do you have the kind of experience I want from a DIT? A Camera Assistant? I prefer to use my own guys - and I can see the 'I have to tag along with you' being a turn off to some people, unless you are experienced and knowledgable enough to actually DIT.

Graeme · Mar 23, 2013

Going for 1 or 2 high quality lenses is better than a bunch of "off the shelf" canon glass, I've notice most people who rent a Red camera here in Ottawa use the Canons sparenly and generally go for Ziess CP glass or PL-mounted cine-glass.

A thing to note: If your part of the part of the package then you need to be as good (if not better) than the Scarlet in terms of quality that you can produce and you need to know the camera inside and out.

A suggestion: consider helping out with Charity Events / Promos as they can always use good gear and talent to improve their marketing; and you can build contacts and your portfolio and experience. That said go for ones that will see your contribution as a "donation" for which you get a equivalent tax receipt you can use to off-set profits later and not a "volunteer" where they give you nothing (I say this because your not sitting there handling out flyers or answering phones, your making a professional grade product using tens of thousands of dollars worth of equipment - there is a difference).

Phil_UK · Mar 23, 2013

jax_rox said:
1) Get the PL mount
2) Get some real lenses

A Scarlet with an EF mount is about as attractive as a C300 (see: not at all). C300s also rent cheaper than REDs.
Canon still lenses are about as attractive to me as my grandmother (see: not at all)

How are you pricing this? If it undercuts the competition significantly, you may find people interested, but if it sits in a similar price arena, then I don't know that you'd find too many takers, especially as a one-man owner/operator with relatively low-budget support equipment.

I personally think you're better off selling yourself as a RED owner/operator than to simply rent out your RED camera package.

Also, do you have the kind of experience I want from a DIT? A Camera Assistant? I prefer to use my own guys - and I can see the 'I have to tag along with you' being a turn off to some people, unless you are experienced and knowledgable enough to actually DIT.

Don't listen to him. First of all, I have no idea why you say a C300 is not attractive at all? The C300 is the hire king. It's never in any hire companies, it's so popular. Everyone and their grandmother want's a C300!

Your Scarlet with EF mount should fly off the shelve. I work closely with a massive hire company in London, UK and their Scarlet with EF mount is ALWAYS out. The reason the EF mount is so attractive is, that you can use cheap still lenses while still getting good optical quality. The EF lenses aren't bad, but you can still get CP.2s in EF mount (Granted, they're not the best) or even the new Canon EF Cinema lenses which are superb.

In my opinion, only the EPIC is really attractive with PL mount. Most people looking to hire a Scarlet are on a budget and another set of lenses like CP.2s can be upwards of 350 dollars a day. The same set with EF lenses is covered for about half that. People who rent cinema lenses like Angenieux's, Cooke's, Arri Master and Ultra Primes, Schneider's etc would rent an EPIC with PL mount.

David.rhsc · Mar 30, 2013

Phil_UK said:
Don't listen to him. First of all, I have no idea why you say a C300 is not attractive at all? The C300 is the hire king. It's never in any hire companies, it's so popular. Everyone and their grandmother want's a C300!

Could be regional. Around here, good luck renting one of the Alexa's in town, but Scarlets and Epics are a dime a dozen (and always available), even before you count in all the private owners with cameras that never see work. PL or EF mount, Epic or Scarlet, the Bay Area is just pregnant with them, and it's hard for me to count the number of private owners I've overheard say "Well, in theory it would pay for itself in X days of rentals, but I haven't rented it a single day yet!"

I know a DP who bought the c300 and loves it, wouldn't think of owning anything else. I know another production company who bought a very early one, and then dumped it because they hated it. Not really certain how well they are renting around here though.

For the OP:

If you are going to bill yourself as DIT with the camera, you should really be able to provide actual DIT services, not just Data Wrangling. That's a whole can of expensive gear worms unto itself.