Making a VERY Controversial Film

Is this a doc? Who is your target audience?

GuerrillaAngel said:

Is this a doc? Who is your target audience?

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Sounds like a documentary, which would be a lot easier than a narrative.

Filming sounds pretty straightforward. I don't see an issue with using students, but do you think they can actually be convincing?

If it's a documentary, if it's done in a sensitive manner, you can get victims to give testimonials. That would make a pretty strong documentary. Interview some students who did and refused to participate.

And honestly, this doesn't sound all that controversial to me, unless you start fabricating evidence or pulling the "I'm not saying these doctors are definitely doing it, but how many accusations does it take to believe me?" ploys.

I updated my original post to answer these questions.

Thank you for reading, I hope that both of you can offer me some advice.

banterings said:

I cannot do a documentary because many doctors do not want to disclose what happens and none will speak of what goes on.

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Right, definitely narrative. You won't get doctors to help even if they do want to disclose what's going on, because they're clearly going to be presented in a bad light.

If you want to be taken seriously, you need to make sure you don't completely lose the viewer by saying things like "Healthcare is more concerned with naked bodies and genitalia than the porn industry. This is excessive and abusive" because that's not most people's experience. They've been to the doctor, and most have viewed porn, and if the movie looks like propaganda or a take-down piece instead of actual entertainment or valid information, they're going to walk out.

Trying to equate preventative tests like pap smears and mammograms to an obsession with genitalia even more than porn is simply going to lose your audience quickly. I don't see how you're going to do that. Already, I'm shaking my head. The majority of doctors went into the field because they figured they had the skills and drive to get the education to help people, and reasonably expect to be well compensated for their 12 years of college schooling. A minority went into it for the money, people being only a means to an end. And a tiny handful went into it as sexually predators. If you equate the last to the first, you're going to piss off a lot of people who will be rightfully annoyed.

However, if it doesn't sound outlandish and you've done your due diligence to research the actual evidence, and you show that there are abuses going on by a minority of bad actors instead of trying to falsely castigate the entire profession (possibly adding several verifiable references with accounts in the credits), you might indeed get some notice.

Stef,

I have the research to back this. The problem is that people who have a good relationship with their provider cannot believe such a thing can happen.

The rate of sexual predators in the profession at a low end would be the same rate as the rest of society. Predators are attracted to professions that have a high level of power, so the rate goes higher. By the nature of what they can legally do to patients, the rate goes higher (than the rest of society) yet.

Just one example: Guidelines by the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG) and the World Health Organization say most women can safely be prescribed oral contraceptives without undergoing a pelvic examination. Yet about a third of clinicians who provide family planning services ADMIT that they always require a pelvic examination. Other research puts this number at 50%.

That is just the ones that ADMIT to it. Many will not admit to it. The actual number may be as high as 80%. Here are references (including the NIH):

Pelvic examinations and access to oral hormonal contraception.
Unneeded Pelvic Exams in Women Seeking Birth Control
Holding Birth Control Hostage
Questioning the Annual Pelvic Exam

Just taking the 33-50% that require it unnecessarily, I ask you, what is their motivation? Money? Sexual assault? Ignorance?

This is just one procedure in one speciality. Look at the web site Medical Miscreants if you really want to know what types of abuses really occur.

Just as I am not familiar with the inner workings of film production, most people are not familiar with the inner workings of healthcare. Prior to 1990, EVERY medical student learned genital and rectal exams on unconscious patients without their explicit consent. Although great gains have been made and most med students no longer do this, the practice still goes on in some places. (See the first 2 links in my original post.)

People do not want to believe that this can happen. If your doctor graduated from med school prior to 1990, he/she learned to to intimate exams on unconscious patients. Most people like their doctors and would not want to believe that. To see how doctors really think about what patients want, read: "Expect It."

My goal is to make people aware of these abuses so that they can protect themselves. I want to do this without sounding outlandish (hence the research to back it all up), yet it is so unbelievable that most people would think that I am making this stuff up.

Besides, the healthcare industry, pharmaceutical industry, insurance companies, hospitals, etc. spend $$$billions in PR to say how much they care.

I think that the question is also about how to handle the truth when it seems stranger (more outlandish) than fiction...

banterings said:

Just taking the 33-50% that require it unnecessarily, I ask you, what is their motivation? Money? Sexual assault? Ignorance?

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As far as preventative procedures? I don't know what to tell you. I can't imagine it being a sexual assault or ignorance. They do pap smears and simple tests for tumors or polyps on women and prostate health on men.

Just one example: Guidelines by the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG) and the World Health Organization say most women can safely be prescribed oral contraceptives without undergoing a pelvic examination. Yet about a third of clinicians who provide family planning services ADMIT that they always require a pelvic examination. Other research puts this number at 50%.

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That's a great example.

Considering a very large number of ob/gyn are female, do you really think there's some sort of predatory urge to examine other women's privates?

The answer here may partially be money. Most people have some form of preventative health insurance that covers many "standard" procedures for healthcare. The problem is this: Medicare sets certain prices of what the gov will pay, and all the insurance companies invariably follow it. The doc did a cost of business and found he has to charge, say, $50 for an office consult for contraceptives. If you go there and talk and don't have insurance, you can probably just pay the $50 and get the Rx. But Medicare would only pay $16 for that office visit, and the doctors generally accept Medicare (because that's what all the other insurance companies migrate to pay, too, even if they were paying far more earlier). Thus, if you have insurance and go there as yearly office visit, they're only getting $16 instead of $50 so they'll throw in a few "standard" procedures like a pelvic exam to recover the few bucks to cover equipment, time, sterilization, 2-3 employees, insurance, etc.

But a pelvic exam is also useful for early detection of all sorts of issues, but most notably cancer. It's certainly not worth it to anyone who hasn't needed it, but ask anyone who survived cancer due to early detection, and you'll get a different story.

I think you're witnessing a broken system, but it's not broken because doctors are corrupt or predators. That idea is just... honestly, I've known way too many doctors and I find that to be both amusing and also highly insulting.

As far as examining anesthetized patients, you left out the most likely reason: education. That's the opposite of ignorance, really. Students have to do 8+ years of rotations in a hospital after getting their MD before they can practice. If a doctor says he found a polyp, I would guess he'd invite all the students assisting to feel it to know what to look for. But I could see this being an ethical issue, and it's something I'll certainly clarify if I ever have to check into a hospital. There should be a required opt-in to be allowed to be prodded for education.

I have a family member doctor that graduated in the 80's and started rotations. I'll ask her if she was ever required to examine other doctor's patients while they were anesthetized, when she wasn't actually assisting a procedure. (That's exactly how I'll word it, too. Is that an appropriate wording?) There's certainly no money in that. The doctors are already being paid (not much while students, either), and are of different genders so there's no sexual interest for at least half, anyway.

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Now there are certainly abuses that have happened. I remember reading about a doctor that was jailed for it many years ago. He was indeed a sexual predator. But remember, there are literally *always* other people around. If such a thing was highly prevalent there would be whistles blown often. A nurse doesn't risk as much (having only 2-4 years of schooling depending on major) and would certainly blow the whistle if he thought it was wrong.

It's not controversial if it's a narrative. There have been plenty of bad doctors in narratives and unless you go out and blatantly say "this is based on a true story" then people will just assume it's fiction, nothing more.

A documentary on the other hand would help your goal of reaching a person who is unaware of the inner workings of the healthcare system.

You are obviously very passionate/angry about this subject and if you're trying to get the message across, I think a documentary is a way to go. Even if doctors don't cooperate. You always have patient testimonies

OK, let me take this one step farther and make it controversial:

The safest place for a sexual predator to go is into healthcare. A sexual predator can choose their speciality and demand of their patients to be undressed, penetrated (finger and instruments), humiliated (having students examine them), etc. They can require (and some do) genital exams when a patient has a sore throat.

They can tell a patient I am not going to refill your prescription (any prescription, not just birth control), or clearance to attend school/college, clearance for jobs, etc., if they do not submit to pelvic exams, prostate exams, genital exams,what ever whims the doctor/nurse/provider has, even if guidelines do NOT require it all by saying they feel that they were not being thorough or that it is medically necessary.

This is legal and in some situations the patient cannot refuse. Some are mandated by law (medicaid) and the patient cannot refuse. The guidelines give no scenarios when the exams can be skipped, not even with survivors of sexual abuse or assault.

This is all legal, and there are no protections for the patient. Patients are free to find another doctor, but with the shortage of doctors, many not accepting Obamacare/medicare/medicaid, the closest doctor may be 3 hours away. Doctors know this and patients have no choice. Here is an excerpt with a link to the source. It is worth reading.

Incidence of sexual abuse within health care is estimated to rival levels found within the church and other major institutions, but people who are sexually abused by doctors and other health care workers within the context of health care are faced with many unique barriers that are not present in other settings. Some of the barriers include difficulties distinguishing what constitutes sexual abuse, a decreased ability to prevent sexual abuse from occurring, and a lack of support and justice for instances when sexual abuse has taken place. Source: Sexual abuse under guise of health care presents barriers

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Here is a link to the United Nations' recently taking up the issue of abusive healthcare: Top UN Expert on Torture Demands an End to Abuses in Health Care. If you research the list of offenders the UN has compiled, you find the United States in there for many healthcare abuses including the forced rectal feeding of prisoners and forced rectal exams, enemas, and even a forced colonoscopy.

A convicted pedophile was the chair of the Work Group that wrote a paper for the Journal of the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry called “Practice Parameters for the Forensic Evaluation of Children and Adolescents Who May Have Been Physically or Sexually Abused” which is still considered the guideline for the practice, and was even used as a source for expert testimony in his own trial for molestation of children, by experts in his field.

Many people who have been abused by healthcare have just dropped out of the system. They do not get their meds, they avoid care, and they do not get help until they are being brought in on a stretcher unconscious. Many would rather die than suffer indignities and abuse.

I have gained some good insight here in the denial that so many people have about the abuses that go on. Either they have a good doctor or do not want to believe that their doctor can be like that. As I stated before:

If your doctor graduated from med school prior to 1990, he/she learned to to intimate exams on unconscious patients.

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This was standard procedure for ALL medical schools prior to 1990. There are some doing it still, today. Doctors do not know that this is wrong. They have been trained to objectify patients, to treat them as little more than warm cadavers.

The denial here has helped me decide that I am going to have change the story line. It will be a sexual predator that is a doctor telling other sexual predators to go into healthcare because they can legally abuse people. He will show them guideline that allow abuse and give examples of others who abused and both gotten away with it and were caught.

Nobody knows how many predators there are in healthcare because things like patient always getting undressed is expected. Law enforcement tends to ignore these abuses and leave the issue to licensing boards which do nothing! Many patients also do not realize that many things they do are unnecessary or abusive either. Most people just accept that when they go to the doctor they will have to get undressed (whether they need to or not).

These abuses continue for decades. The first complaints against Dr. William Ayres were in 1969. He was not convicted until 2013. He is only 1 of many (see the web site Medical Miscreants). As I stated, the incidence of sexual abuse within healthcare is estimated to rival levels found within the church and other major institutions.

How and where do I find students or anyone who would want to be part of this project (pitch the project)?
(I live between NYC and Philadelphia, ideally finding people in either place.)

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My university has a listserv for people interested in volunteering on student films. You might check if schools near you have something similar. Some of my friends find actors by putting up flyers in the drama department. As for your pitch, leave off "VERY Controversial" because you're going to have to work pretty hard to make something that the internet thinks is controversial, especially if it's narrative and only based on a true story. And besides, you'll be met with skepticism about the phrase (like you have been on this forum).

If I were you, I would discard any attempt to prove that sexual predators are (in real life) running rampant in the healthcare industry, and go for creating an entertaining film that makes people think. It could be a great film. However, if you are set on claiming truth, then you will need a lot of solid evidence from well-known, legitimate sources or your own research or people like me will not be interested.

The safest place for a sexual predator to go is into healthcare. A sexual predator can choose their speciality and demand of their patients to be undressed, penetrated (finger and instruments), humiliated (having students examine them), etc. They can require (and some do) genital exams when a patient has a sore throat.

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Apparently, it's legal to own a minigun in the US, yet few people care about the dangers of miniguns because despite their legality, they are incredibly uncommon to see on the street. So just because you can argue that theoretically a sexual predator could legally take advantage of people in specific scenarios does not make it controversial or relevant. However, it could still be a great story, regardless of its truth-value.

banterings said:

The denial here has helped me decide that I am going to have change the story line. It will be a sexual predator that is a doctor telling other sexual predators to go into healthcare because they can legally abuse people. He will show them guideline that allow abuse and give examples of others who abused and both gotten away with it and were caught.

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That's good. I told you it needed to be believable (or at least give a viable suspension of disbelief). What you had pitched was not.

Maybe you should consider starting with the incident in Deming, NM, when a guy rolled out of a walmart and was pulled over by a cop, who detained and obtained a search warrant for drugs in his body cavities. The warrant was executed after it was expired, and was probably illegally obtained.

The doctors that performed the procedures did so with an expired warrant out of the warrant's jurisdiction (different county), and should probably have their licenses revoked or even face rape charges for performing an operation against a patient's wishes. Doctors cannot be "ordered" to perform an action with a search warrant.

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles...olonoscopy-by-cops-wins-16-million-settlement

That is a clear-cut, documented abuse. [edit: ah, I see you linked it above]

On your second film, extend it to follow "a doctor" who performs such warrant executions with enjoyment (but make sure it's clearly fictional to prevent libel).


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Edit2:

btw, you should categorize my denial (a word which, I believe, you overuse because it's loaded) as doubting that there's some huge prevalence of sexual predators in medicine. The burden is on you to show that there's some huge prevalence of it, and I don't believe any of your links do. The fact that you assume that means I'm ill-informed is kind of the mark of a conspiracy theorist. Now, a conspiracy theorist can certainly make a great movie, but you're going to have to do better than that if you're going to convince anyone you're right. One or two examples of sexual abuse do not make some sort of epidemic, which you're pushing. You're trying to reclassify outmoded education and training as sexual abuse, and it has none of the indicators.

Some examples are unnecessary pelvic exams to issue birth control. You claim this must be sexually motivated.

A bad cop, bad doctor, and very bad dog instigate a forced anal probe (which was worldwide news, not some hidden conspiracy link) and payed out $millions as a result (and will pay more), and this is indicative of a bad health system? No, this is indicative of a bad process starting in law enforcement. It raises the question of whether a doctor can legally be forced to administer a search warrant, too. A judge cannot order a private doctor to examine someone.

Let me ask you this: It's clear you truly believe that all of your examples are sexual abuse. Therefore, do you also believe all of those doctors should be jailed for rape or criminal penetration?

How about making it a comedy

Consider M.A.S.H. which actually conveyed the true horror of war without beig a documentary and everyone saw it.

Also, if you show horrendous things going on and then someone is caught in real life, they will show a clip from your film and everyone will be inspired to go back and see it again. Furthermore, if lots of people see it, some will be people due in for surgery. They will be deeply concerned after seeing you flick and will grill the doctors forcing them to confirm that they are safe form such bad treatment and help to encourage it form occuring in real life.

This is a 10-15 minute piece tops. Comedy will not work, it takes away from the seriousness of the issue.

What is wrong with patients protecting themselves from abuse? That is my whole purpose.

Twana Sparks had been giving genital exams to unconscious men (mostly Hispanic) for over 10 years. She has never been charged with a crime. Just because she is a doctor, she can legally commit sexual assault. There has been speculation that her victims were targeted because they were males or Hispanic males, being that she is a lesbian. (Source: The ENT Surgeon Who Gave Genital Exams) Now, according to her personal web site, she is working with a nonprofit that introduces young girls to STEM (Science Technology Engineering Math) Curricula.

I want to do this as a parody, like Jonathan Swift's "A Modest Proposal." Mine will be about predators entering healthcare to legally satisfy their urges. The idea is to let people what can happen and what does happen.