Ultra16 format...

Bump...

FilmJumper said:

Was just wondering what anyone thinks about the Ultra16mm format?

I found out about it about 6 months ago and made the conversion to my Bolex EBM myself but have yet to shoot any film...

If you're not familiar with it, basically, it allows those of us with older 16mm cameras to get the gate machined on both sides (instead of one side like for Super16), giving an older 16mm camera a new aspect ratio of 1:80. It needs to widened only .7mm on each side.

This way, we don't have to have our older cameras converted to Super16 (might not be cost effective and some cameras can't even be converted to Super16) and have the lens mount recentered.

The only real problem is allowing (during framing/shooting) for the additional room on both sides of the frame since you are not having your viewfinder modified...

Seems like a great inexpensive way to achieve a widescreen format with old equipment... Of course I'd much rather shoot with Super16 but I already have old cameras that are easily modified to Ultra16 not easily modified (too expensive) to Super16.

You can read more about here:

Ultra16mm Format

filmy

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Hmmmm. I was hoping to get some other opinions on shooting Ultra16mm... I'm planning a feature next year and have been struggling whether to shoot Ultra16mm or MiniDV with the DVX-100A... I'm leaning toward the DVX because I really like to move the camera a lot and I've got a steadicam type system (Magiqcam) and dolly... If I shoot film I will have a much larger expense of course but the logistics of camera movement become more difficult since neither of my 16mm cameras have videotaps...

filmy

I wish I could add something useful, Mr FilmJumper.

I'm looking forward to some handy replies, though. Real film is something I know absolutely nothing about, but I'm anxious to learn more about it. There must be someone on the board that knows about the Ultra-thingie.

FilmJumper said:

The only real problem is allowing (during framing/shooting) for the additional room on both sides of the frame since you are not having your viewfinder modified...

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Yikes, that's a big issue. I'd feel safer using the Bolex unmodified.

Actually...

indietalk said:

Yikes, that's a big issue. I'd feel safer using the Bolex unmodified.

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Actually, it's really not that big of an issue... Framing through your normal viewfinder will yield acceptable results 95% of the time... Just have to be careful on shots where there's multiple subjects nearing the edges...

filmy

hmmm.

Hi all, just joined today and this is my first posting. Wonderful site.
I checked out the Ultra 16mm site from the link provided above. For your concern about framing, and this is just by going off their illustration of the extra wide frame you get with the modification, you could probobly use the left and right edges of your groundglass as your new "action safe" area. Anything just off frame may be out of frame on a TV screen.
The site talks about scanning film to get to post production. Is this a route you can afford? I 'm going to assume you mean to telecine to HD, digie beta, or DV for your postproduction needs. That being the case, if their illustration is a somewhat true representation of your new frame size, I would be concerned with seeing the perferations on the top and bottom left side of the screen. I would expect not, but this is the first time I've heard of Ultra 16mm. Try to find out from them if you can contact a camera owner who has shot with this modification and ask them how they handled the new frame size.
If the end medium of your project is TV or video, Shoot regular 16mm (if you can't afford super 16mm) and letter box in post. Or go with the DVX100A. I love the DVX, but theres still nothing like good exposed 16mm. I hope I could help.

Perfs...

Hager said:

Hi all, just joined today and this is my first posting. Wonderful site.
I checked out the Ultra 16mm site from the link provided above. For your concern about framing, and this is just by going off their illustration of the extra wide frame you get with the modification, you could probobly use the left and right edges of your groundglass as your new "action safe" area. Anything just off frame may be out of frame on a TV screen.
The site talks about scanning film to get to post production. Is this a route you can afford? I 'm going to assume you mean to telecine to HD, digie beta, or DV for your postproduction needs. That being the case, if their illustration is a somewhat true representation of your new frame size, I would be concerned with seeing the perferations on the top and bottom left side of the screen. I would expect not, but this is the first time I've heard of Ultra 16mm. Try to find out from them if you can contact a camera owner who has shot with this modification and ask them how they handled the new frame size.
If the end medium of your project is TV or video, Shoot regular 16mm (if you can't afford super 16mm) and letter box in post. Or go with the DVX100A. I love the DVX, but theres still nothing like good exposed 16mm. I hope I could help.

Click to expand...

Hager,

First off, welcome to IndieTalk...

I've already converted my Bolex EBM to Ultra16. I understand your concern about being able to see the perfs as that too was my original concern. Having said that, I can now tell you that it depends on your telecine... Sony has a telecine that uses no film gate and allows zooming in all the way so you can see the perfs but of course, you would want to zoom out just enough to not see them and get your entire Ultra16 picture telecined.

Link to Sony Telecine

The only reason I brought this up originally was those of us with old 16mm cameras where Super16 conversion isn't even an option... The other argument for Ultra16 is that you can still shoot normal 16mm and get the footage telecined on a Rank and nothing changes at all except for the fact that your original film is still the wider aspect ratio. In other words, you can still elect to shoot regular 16mm with a camera that's been modified to Ultra16. I also have a Scoopic MS and a Russian K3 that I will probably modify to Ultra16 as well...

I have not yet shot anything with the modified camera but I have been in touch with 3 people that have already used it and they think the same thing... Why not? Nothing really changes if you continue to shoot 16mm film. Since the Rank would use a regular 16mm gate to telecine your footage, you'd still get a regular 16mm image and aspect ratio from an Ultra16 modified gate. So in effect, you would be able to shoot both formats.

Apparently, there have been some low budget Super16 films that have used cameras modified to Ultra16 as their B camera... From everything I've read and asked about, everyone is happy with the results.

Does this mean you should never shoot Super16? Of course not. Super16 is an outstanding format. I just like the idea of taking old 16mm cameras and being able to modify them myself and get the extra width for my image without the extra cost... And, of course some cameras can't be converted to Super16 anyway and even if they can, you're looking at quite an expense for a low budget filmmaker...

By the way, I do have a DVX100A and I love it...

filmy