[Community Project] Sound Design

Here are some questions, notes and suggestions on how to interpret and/or modify the script to maximise the effectiveness of sound design to aid the storytelling. Here's the link again to the draft script for reference.

Scene 1 (EXT. WOODLAND AREA, NIGHT): Are we going to be hearing this dialogue from the perspective of it being recorded on the cellphone along with the cell footage? Or, are we going to be hearing it as if we were there, ie., not as part of the cell footage? If it's the latter, it would be useful to have a minute or two of the sound (ambience) of the woodland scene, preferably in stereo as we might be able to use it in the final mix. Mono is better than nothing but it would then act more as a guide. If recording the ambience in stereo then 30 secs of mono "room tone" in addition to the ambiance would be useful.

Scene 2 (EXT. SAN FRANCISCO BEACH, DAY): A. Beach scenes are usually tricky as far as audio is concerned. The sound of waves breaking/lapping is irregularly rhythmical and so makes decent picture and dialogue editing very difficult/impossible and due to it being broadband noise it is difficult/impossible to remove. In all likelihood this scene will need ADR'íng. B. If possible, get a master-shot of the beach, preferably including one or more of the following: a nearby road/traffic, industrial or commercial dock area, boats, planes, jet skis, bus station/stop, fun fair, bar or indeed anything else which makes a noise! C. Again, if possible, a stereo (preferably) or mono recording of the location for guide purposes would be useful.

Scene 3 (INT. ARTIST’S STUDIO (RICHMOND, VA), DAY): Where is this studio? An urban/city center, in the countryside or a suburb? Is there any possibility of a shot of establishing this location? Is there any possibility of establishing the nearby presence of: a construction site, someone mowing their lawn, a train line/station, airport, school playground, etc?

Scene 4 (EXT. NEAR AUSTERLITZ PYRAMID): A. Again, a recording of the location to act as a guide would be most useful. B. If it's a very quiet location, maybe at some point one or more of the actors could briefly/subtly respond to a sound in the distance, maybe while smoking? If it's not so quiet consider a shot which briefly visually establishes what's causing the sound.

Scene 5 (INT. BEDROOM (WELLINGTON), NIGHT): When looking out of the window, is there a way to very briefly establish the presence of one of the following: a train line/station, transport depot, hospital, factory or any other point of aural interest which operates at night?

Scene 6 (EXT. FOREST AREA, DAY): A: Again an aural guide of the location would be useful. B. Where is this wooded area, is there a distant logging operation? Can we visually establish there is some logging related operation going on in the distance or at least the odd truck/vehicle using the road?

Scene 7 (EXT. OREGON SMALLHOLDING, DAY): Any chance of visually establishing the presence of some running farm machinery when Samuel runs across the yard or in one of the rundown buildings?

These are just suggestions, we don't always need to visually establish the reason for a sound but it does dramatically improve audience believability and in some cases is essential. These suggestions are to allow the logical presence of a background ambience with occasional sounds which can push through that ambience.

For those who maybe unaware, we can vary the level of this ambience (and/or those occasional SFX within it) to add tension, increase the pace/tempo/shape of various parts of each scene, add emphasis to the dialogue, change/affect the aural POV (for example, create an aural link between our "real location" and the location as perceived by a particular character) as well of course as creating a believable aural world beyond just the picture frame. Here's a hypothetical example: Maybe we see a brief distant shot of a saw mill (band saw SFX) and hear the last few words of Vern's phone conversation just before we cut to Scene 7. Now we can add the distant/very distant band saw sound once Vern gets out of his truck. The sound of an operating band saw varies as it goes through thicker/denser wood and it also starts and stops, we can use this to make the action more dramatic; maybe the saw sound dips or even stops when Vern spots the liquid and maybe it starts up again when Vern sniffs and recoils. We're talking about a very distant quiet saw sound here, very subtle, hardly noticeable if you're not specifically listening for it. On the other hand, we might make the saw sound so quiet that it can't be discerned at all from the background ambience or we might leave it out altogether. The point is that we have an aural storytelling tool which we can logically employ (if necessary) once we've seen how the dramatic impact of the scene plays out on screen during/after picture editing.

G
 
Last edited:
Claim (essentially) double posting but... (I just didn't want you guys over here to feel unloved. ;))
What would or could be (Nick, brace yourself. Yeah go ahead and just start flinching now) increase marketability would be to design a signature audio sound for the spacecraft.

'Close Encounters' http://www.cellsea.com/ringtone/detail/RT4d8765a6b7768.htm
'War of the Worlds' http://www.zedge.net/ringtone/484411/tripod-horn/
'Star Wars' TIE fighter fly by http://filmsound.org/starwars/tie.wav (More SW sounds: http://filmsound.org/starwars/)
(Doggone! More fun sound-nerd resources: http://www.filmsound.org/sound-effects/libraries.htm)
Gah! 'Star Trek' sounds:
http://www.trekcore.com/audio/
http://www.mediacollege.com/downloads/sound-effects/star-trek/tos/

But, you get the idea.

As I go about my regular days at home and work I'm always listening to and for sounds.
Sounds that remind me of those I've heard in films.
Sounds that I could use in a film.

Just went hunting for some of the sounds from JCameron's 'Aliens' such as the air lock doors opening and closing, the heavy-humm motor sound that moves the doors, the motion tracker, and the pulse rifle fire.
Didn't find much, but again, you get the idea.

Oh, this is lame: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uz0UkvGU2qE
But I love these comments left on the video:
"Thel Vadamee3 months ago
This gun is probably the coolest sounding gun in media.

pinoi782 years ago
That sound....so classic.

Nick Cliff2 years ago
i love the sound how it pich changes"

Iconic audio.

Another freebie resource.
http://sweetsoundeffects.com/ufo-sounds/
 
Scene 5 (INT. BEDROOM (WELLINGTON), NIGHT): When looking out of the window, is there a way to very briefly establish the presence of one of the following: a train line/station, transport depot, hospital, factory or any other point of aural interest which operates at night?
I can potentially get a train line. Hospital is a bit far away, and not really an idea position for a looking out the window type shot.
Issue, of course, is that it would make Wellington city even less recognisable (I don't think any of these things are particularly recognisable as Wellington).
 
Thank you for contributing, APE.

No problem, hopefully I'll be able to see it through to the end and actually fulfil the role of supervising sound editor/sound designer during post. I dealt with background sounds/ambiances above, over the next couple of days I'll try to add some more suggestions regarding other aspects of the sound design.

What would or could be (Nick, brace yourself. Yeah go ahead and just start flinching now) increase marketability would be to design a signature audio sound for the spacecraft. ...
'Close Encounters'
'War of the Worlds'
'Star Wars' TIE fighter
Gah! 'Star Trek' sounds...
Iconic audio.

I get your point but I'm not sure you're fully aware of what you're asking for. It's no coincidence that most of the films you've mentioned above employed some of the greatest sound effects designers who've ever lived! What you're asking for is the sound effect equivalent of creating a global hit record or iconic literary character. If involved, I would of course be looking to custom design the UFO sound but your expectations should realistically be set lower than world class examples of masterpiece sound effects design!

G
 
What you're asking for is the sound effect equivalent of creating a global hit record or iconic literary character.
Yeah, pretty much.

Fantastic offer on your behalf.
And I think that as long as you fabricated something both familiar yet unique the 'Fellowship of the Community Project' would be quite pleased no matter what it is.

It's just an opportunity to not overlook.

Don't just toss in there some Jetson's http://www.zedge.net/ringtone/336106/jetson-car/

Seize the opportunity!


* * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Candidate dump:
  1. http://www.sounddogs.com/previews/2716/mp3/473956_SOUNDDOGS__mu.mp3
  2. http://www.sounddogs.com/sound-effects/15/mp3/189795_SOUNDDOGS__cr.mp3
  3. http://www.sounddogs.com/previews/2738/mp3/455830_SOUNDDOGS__ee.mp3
  4. http://www.sounddogs.com/previews/2225/mp3/442250_SOUNDDOGS__ha.mp3
  5. http://soundbible.com/1811-Annoying-Alien-Buzzer.html
  6. http://soundbible.com/1016-Strange-Noise.html
  7. http://www.sounddogs.com/previews/2665/mp3/1140117_SOUNDDOGS__tr.mp3

Fun is in straight mixing a couple of these, like 1 & 4 or 1 & 7.
Or 1, 4, and 7 together!
 
Last edited:
Excellent thread, and definitely a great resource for the directors planning their shoots.

The locations, as they are in the script, are very rough and based on what people said they had available to them in the form that I sent out. I'm all for practically, and there's no reason why locations can't be switched in order to be a more sound friendly environment.

It's hard to know exactly what the locations will be like until the directors do some location scouting and post the results. Obviously, I have an idea in my head, but the reality will be whatever they can muster. It's definitely something that people need to be thinking about when they're finalising their locations.
 
I can potentially get a train line. Hospital is a bit far away, and not really an idea position for a looking out the window type shot.
Issue, of course, is that it would make Wellington city even less recognisable (I don't think any of these things are particularly recognisable as Wellington).

The train line would probably be best, unless that's the only option for one of the other scenes and we wouldn't want to do it twice. Also remember that you don't necessarily have to be able to see the train line clearly or even at all from your window! I'm not necessarily suggesting this, but you could for example; shoot the train/train line through someone elses window, one a little closer with a bit better view (but still as part wide landscape rather than just of the train line). You could then cut to an INT of your bedroom (from a low angle possibly) shot of Simon (or Simone) looking out of the window. Looking up at the stars and maybe briefly down and then back at the stars again (in response to say a train screeching sound).

From a cinematography point of view this might appear to be a bit discontinuous but unless we're making a silent film we can't think from just a cinematography point of view! Maintaining the train SFX (and other background ambiance) across these cuts will maintain the continuity. This also opens up other possibilities. For example, at the beginning of the scene (or even at the end of the previous scene, taking us across the cut) we could have a sound effect which is rather surreal, say part scream and part train screech. We could do it in a way as to imply it's this sound which wakes Simon (Simone) or rather, the sound was part a nightmare or horrific vision of the future which woke Simon. We then cut to the shot through the window (which includes a distant shot of a train) and the similarity of the train SFX immediately provides another explanation, maybe Simon was woken by nothing more sinister or supernatural than just a train. This goes to the heart of what sound design is all about, we're telling and enhancing the story and, in this case, supporting the ambiguity of whether we are really dealing with aliens/alien invasion or just a hoax. The ultimate decision of whether we take this storytelling course is up to the Director, so I hope Nick chimes in at some stage.

Of course, during picture edit we might find these cuts to and from our window landscape negatively affect the flow/pace of the storytelling, in which case they can be dropped but the important thing is that we have the option. In my experience many amateur filmmakers concentrate too heavily on the shooting, thinking that is where the making of the film happens, rather than seeing the production phase of filmmaking as merely the creation of the raw materials for the editing phase, which is really where a film is "made"!

It's just an opportunity to not overlook. ... Seize the opportunity!

Don't worry. Sound Design has been my passion for 20 years or so, the instant I read the first couple of lines of the script the opportunity you're talking about was immediately apparent to me!!!! :)


No, there's a great deal more fun to be had than that!! :) For example, did you know that the Tie Fighter SFX you mentioned in a previous post actually started life as a recording of an elephant trumpeting? After much processing plus some layering with other SFX Ben Burtt ended up with the Tie Fighter SFX, which was pretty important in the history of SFX design because it was at the forefront of a movement within the SFX design world known as "organic SFX". The use of real animal (organic) sounds within unrelated SFX to elicit emotional responses, even though the animal sound may not be consciously recognisable. Organic SFX is still very much a part of SFX design today.

Thanks for the links above but JFYI serious sound designers would never willingly use MP3 files. The processing used in SFX design frequently enhances the compression artefacts of lossy codecs like MP3, even if you convert them to wavs. Also, as a commercial audio post pro, I've got an SFX library of well over a terabyte, containing many hundreds of thousands of SFX (both commercial SFX libraries and sounds I've recorded myself over the years), so I've got a pretty fair choice before I need to turn to Sounddogs.

G
 
Last edited:
The train line would probably be best, unless that's the only option for one of the other scenes and we wouldn't want to do it twice. Also remember that you don't necessarily have to be able to see the train line clearly or even at all from your window! I'm not necessarily suggesting this, but you could for example; shoot the train/train line through someone elses window, one a little closer with a bit better view (but still as part wide landscape rather than just of the train line). You could then cut to an INT of your bedroom (from a low angle possibly) shot of Simon (or Simone) looking out of the window. Looking up at the stars and maybe briefly down and then back at the stars again (in response to say a train screeching sound).

From a cinematography point of view this might appear to be a bit discontinuous but unless we're making a silent film we can't think from just a cinematography point of view! Maintaining the train SFX (and other background ambiance) across these cuts will maintain the continuity. This also opens up other possibilities. For example, at the beginning of the scene (or even at the end of the previous scene, taking us across the cut) we could have a sound effect which is rather surreal, say part scream and part train screech. We could do it in a way as to imply it's this sound which wakes Simon (Simone) or rather, the sound was part a nightmare or horrific vision of the future which woke Simon. We then cut to the shot through the window (which includes a distant shot of a train) and the similarity of the train SFX immediately provides another explanation, maybe Simon was woken by nothing more sinister or supernatural than just a train. This goes to the heart of what sound design is all about, we're telling and enhancing the story and, in this case, supporting the ambiguity of whether we are really dealing with aliens/alien invasion or just a hoax. The ultimate decision of whether we take this storytelling course is up to the Director, so I hope Nick chimes in at some stage.

Of course, during picture edit we might find these cuts to and from our window landscape negatively affect the flow/pace of the storytelling, in which case they can be dropped but the important thing is that we have the option. In my experience many amateur filmmakers concentrate too heavily on the shooting, thinking that is where the making of the film happens, rather than seeing the production phase of filmmaking as merely the creation of the raw materials for the editing phase, which is really where a film is "made"!
It doesn't really run anywhere near the city that would be viewable from a window (apart from a handful of scungy appartments I don't have access to - but these don't look out into a recognisable part of the city). Solution: is that I just do some clever shooting to make it appear as if the train runs near the characters room.
However, we lose any form of recognisability of wellington.

To be honest, the only thing the train runs near than I would think /might/ be recognisable would be parliament building .

I have been thinking about this a lot, as a project I'm working on currently has a character living near the train line :P

However! I do have a suggestion. I know a handful of people with inner city appartments. Hopefully some have ones that look out onto the street. Because then, we could shoot the out the window shot with people going clubbing - so you have the town ambience, people walking drunken through the street.
Or alternatively, from the same location, buses passing down the street.

I also wonder if this would make the city more recognisable? I don't think international viewers are going to be able to recognise a Wellington skyline (this seems to be the most common shot I see), anyway - even those who've visited. So I wonder if a shot of one of the main club streets becomes more recognisable?

So I guess the options are Wellington skyline (maybe futile, difficult from a sound design perspective), making a way for the train shot to work (good from sound design perspective, but wellingotn not very recognisable) or main street at night (probably not that recognisable except to those who've visited anyway).


Edit: Actually, there is a cable car near where I live! I kind of forgot about it, as it's not on my way to/from anywhere since I moved last year. It's somewhat of a tourist attraction (which is kind of a joke to locals, because it seems so so underwhelming), so I guess somewhat of a Wellington icon? You'd get a bit of the Wellington skyline from the right angle (though, again, not that unique or recognisable) and something vaguely unique to Wellington. Again, it's probably going to mean nothing to viewers, but maybe that combines the best of the options? Getting the shot might be tricky, but if that sounds like an option you/Nick like, I can investigate.
 
Last edited:
Excellent thread, and definitely a great resource for the directors planning their shoots.

Thanks. My suggestions are certainly not cast in stone, I didn't provide them with the intention of giving specific instructions but more along the lines of getting the unit directors to think about background sound and provide opportunities to use sound in post to enhance the storytelling/manipulate the audience. It might very well be that at a particular location there are sources of sound or better still, potential sources of sound which I haven't mentioned. Maybe when scouting or filming one of the EXT countryside locations the director notices a tractor in the distance spraying or ploughing a field; zoom in on it for a second, incorporate it in the background of one of the shots or just get some footage of it. It's all post-production fodder which might help bring a whole other level to the completed scene. Of course, this is just another one of any number of other possibilities. This does all raise a potential dichotomy in audio post though; on the one hand we need locations which provide a sound palette to weave a believable audio world while enhancing the storytelling and on the other hand we need to record clean dialogue with no background sound. Hence why I said "better still, potential sources of sound", ideally in our example, we wouldn't be able to hear the tractor (maybe due to distance), doesn't mean we can't add the tractor sound at a low/distant level in post, even though it couldn't be heard in reality at the time of filming.

The locations, as they are in the script, are very rough and based on what people said they had available to them in the form that I sent out. I'm all for practically, and there's no reason why locations can't be switched in order to be a more sound friendly environment.

In all likelihood, the only location with potentially serious audio problems is the beach scene, and even this is not necessarily a fatal problem if the unit director/actors can record reasonable quality ADR. With the other locations it's probably more a case of implying additional background noise/sounds rather having to deal with too much unwanted noise in the production sound recordings. BTW, I tried to restrict my suggestions to costing more time and effort rather than adding much in the way of technical or financial demands.

G
 
...

I also wonder if this would make the city more recognisable? I don't think international viewers are going to be able to recognise a Wellington skyline (this seems to be the most common shot I see), anyway - even those who've visited. So I wonder if a shot of one of the main club streets becomes more recognisable?

.......

Let's be honest if we talk about international viewers recognizing skylines most people will only recognize: Manhattan/Statue of Liberty/Brooklyn Bridge, Golden Gate Bridge, Eiffeltower in Paris, Big Ben/Millenium Wheel in London, Colloseum/Vatican in Rome, Operahouse in Sidney, Statue of Jezus in Soa Paolo, White House/Senate/Obelisk in Washington, Red Square in Moskow, Acropolis in Athens, Las Vegas, Egypte for it's Sfinx and Pyramids.
Maybe Skyline of Dubai, Brandenburg Tor in Berlin, Atomium in Antwerp.
Tokyo is recognized by the people and Japanese signs. But a lot can still think Shanghai is Tokyo ;)
Amsterdam or Rotterdam only by people who've been there or are interested in architecture.

So, what does this mean?
It means it will be recognized by locals and the rest will be educated how it looks. :P
It doesn't mean we can't use it :)

Great idea to make this thread.
Planning the sounds to record is indeed very important.
 
Last edited:
I know a handful of people with inner city appartments. Hopefully some have ones that look out onto the street. Because then, we could shoot the out the window shot with people going clubbing - so you have the town ambience, people walking drunken through the street.
Or alternatively, from the same location, buses passing down the street.

People clubbing, buses, etc., would tend to imply late at night rather than very early in the morning (4am-ish). The cable-car idea might be a good one if it were logical for a cable car to be running at 4 in the morning AND if this were a budgeted production. While I've got quite a wide array of train samples to draw from, cable car SFX are far thinner on the ground. To do a good job I'd really need to sub-contract a local location sound recordist to record a wide variety/palette of sounds of the cable car but as we don't have the budget for this, it's probably best to stick to the train idea if possible.

To be honest, I'm with WalterB on this one. Except for one or two iconic views, most cities are remarkably similar. Therefore I wouldn't worry too much about it, if you can relatively easily get a distant shot of the train line + parliament building and make it look like it's near your apartment, great, if not I don't think it's a priority which you should loose any sleep over. After all, the actor will have a NZ accent. We could even play this out with audio if we wanted to make the location explicit. For example, after recovering for a few seconds from the waking shock, Simon/e reaches over and clicks a sound system remote and we hear; "... anyone listening to Radio Wellington at this ungodly hour, here's something to ease you into the new day"... then there's music which continues over the cuts through the window and Simon/e looking out and when the phone rings s/he reaches over and lowers the volume (or switches off) the radio before answering.

These are just suggestions/opinions, Nick/You need to decide how important it is to visually identify Wellington at night, if something like the radio suggestion is suitable/sufficient or if no references to Wellington in the scene are necessary.

G
 
Last edited:
At 4am are there Wellington municipal trash trucks or buses running by, something with a camera legible name printed on the side?

Otherwise, there just might be a location superimposition for each city.
 
The discussion has turned to "if we talk about international viewers recognizing skylines " which is clearly talking about locations in the script\on camera.. not sound design.

get with the program :P
 
Gotcha.
I thought they were angling that for a recognizable non-audio background with a sound-design capable foreground, such as the clubs, street scenes, trolleys and such.
 
No.
Garbage trucks and buses have engines, exhaust, air brakes, doors, mechanix = audio design.
I can do the train shot, but I won't be able to do it as a skyline type shot (and I was near parliament this morning, turns out the train isn't as close to it as I thought).

No.
Garbage trucks and buses have engines, exhaust, air brakes, doors, mechanix = audio design.

I think Rayw is right?

The discussion was about the visual options we had for the out-the-window shot in regard what was best from a sound design pov. I was laying out the pros and cons we had for each option visually, and aurally.

--

But yes, as stated, it's futile bothering to make Wellington internationally recognisable. I think we've discussed most options available. Will leave it up to Nick to see if he wants a skyline (I could potentially get out to the airport, though not owning a car could make this a bit tricky but not impossible - but there isn't really much city seen around there). If not, and he wants to go the radio type route, I can make a train/rubbish truck/early morning bus happen.
 
Your moving away from sound design, move this scene \ location discussion back to the other thread...

I can't decide if you're being serious or not? If you are, then an argument can be made that sound design is more important to scene/location than any of the other film crafts. For example, cinematography is only concerned with the scene / location in terms of what's visible within the frame and is also constrained by the fact that the screen displaying these frames only represents a percentage of the audience's field of vision. Sound design on the other hand is concerned with the perception of the entire scene / location, not just the small part of it captured within the frame.

One of the main points I've been trying to get across is the holistic approach to filmmaking which characterises good commercial filmmaking and all the great modern filmmakers and which is so often absent from lo/no budget films, even though it doesn't necessarily have to cost more. Most/many small budget and/or inexperienced filmmakers tend to approach filmmaking sequentially; write the script, plan the cinematography and how to shoot the script, cast and schedule the filming, shoot, then edit the footage and add sound and music to the film. However, this is not how the great filmmakers or even just the more competent professional directors make films. The Sound Designer is usually hired near the end of script development or early in pre-production and the director is thinking about sound design throughout the filmmaking process or rather, the director is thinking throughout the process in terms of the completed storytelling (which includes the sound design) rather than concentrating on just one or two of the film crafts at a time.

Hopefully this thread will help to demonstrate the advantages of this holistic approach and that pretty much everything in the film (definitely including scene / location) falls within the purview of "sound design"!

G
 
Back
Top