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watch Something very wrong with RETURN OF THE JEDI
- Thread starter sonnyboo
- Start date
That is awesome man! Great job with this. I really dig the background and the differences between what happened and what could have happened. I always felt Jedi was a little too warm and fuzzy, especially coming off the noir of Empire.
Thanks all.
I was really pleased with my first foray into Adobe Character Animator, a beta part of After Effects. I had a friend design Luke and Obi Wan, then I did the performances myself as voice recordings and then a facial live capture performance. I ain't no actor, but then again I ain't no animator either.
I'm just amazed at what is possible today with live real time animation.
That and I really hate RETURN OF THE JEDI because of what it COULD have been. That Kasden draft is available online here
http://starwarz.com/starkiller/draft-variations-for-return-of-the-jedi/
I was really pleased with my first foray into Adobe Character Animator, a beta part of After Effects. I had a friend design Luke and Obi Wan, then I did the performances myself as voice recordings and then a facial live capture performance. I ain't no actor, but then again I ain't no animator either.
I'm just amazed at what is possible today with live real time animation.
That and I really hate RETURN OF THE JEDI because of what it COULD have been. That Kasden draft is available online here
http://starwarz.com/starkiller/draft-variations-for-return-of-the-jedi/
This video is nicely done, and I'd expect nothing less than you.
That being said, strong disagree! Jedi is dope!
That being said, strong disagree! Jedi is dope!
This video is nicely done, and I'd expect nothing less than you.
That being said, strong disagree! Jedi is dope!
The first 20 minutes, sure. After that it all falls to hell.
The first 20 minutes, sure. After that it all falls to hell.
You apparently weren't eight years old when you saw it, cuz if you had been, you'd have loved it!
That being said, strong disagree! Jedi is dope!
Agree about the movie.
Top 10 Reasons it sucks
I was 11 when it came out, the first movie I ever saw in the theatre was STAR WARS in '77 when I was 5. Even then, JEDI kinda sucked because I felt those teddy bears were condescending and made for toys.
The first 20 minutes feel like STAR WARS and rock. After that, all I wanted to see was the light sabre fight and a battle of fleets, because the acting was wooden, the dialogue pathetic, and the effects even got terrible.
Did you see those pathetic matte shots in the hanger? Ugh. Oscar winners slumming it with cheap work.
TOP 10 REASONS RETURN OF THE JEDI SUCKS
10. LACK OF DRAMATIC TENSION PART 1 -In the scene with Leia and Han, right after Luke says, "Hey, you're my sister, even though we played tongue twister in the last movie", and the dramatic tension lasts almost 3 whole seconds before Han Solo, a well known scoundrel, gives up and apologizes right away. No waiting until they're in the battle and she gets shot to make up, thus creating some much needed drama. No consistency with character.
9. MATTE PAINTINGS - Okay, having just watched all 6 movies on Blu Ray, why are the matte paintings so blaringly obvious in this movie? In 1920x1080 High Definition video on a 70" 4K TV, the matte paintings of things like the Millennium Falcon in a hangar show way too much of the paint strokes and look incredibly fake.
8. BAD EFFECTS - In many ways the effects work in Return of the Jedi are STILL some of the best. Then why is some of the worst effects also in the same movie? There are several really poor blue screen shots, like when Han Solo and Lando are talking about permission to take the Millenium Falcon into battle, those shots are so terribly done, complete with the exact same horrendous matte paintings already mentioned. Throughout the movie, several of the blue screen composites rip me out of the movie because of how fake they looked. Sometimes followed immediately by some of the best of the 1980's FX work. See also the shot of Mongo's look alike mourning his dead Rancor, or Luke and Han on the skiff on Tatooine. There isn't a single shot in iV or V that compare to these 7-8 terrible FX debacles in JEDI.
7. DARTH VADER - Okay, even in the context of all 6 movies, When, where, and how did Luke sense some good in Vader? What actions were taken that demonstrate this innate sense of good? The hand cutting and torture in Empire Strikes Back? The killing of a few dozen defenseless children in Revenge of the Sith? Looking at just the original trilogy, there is absolutely NOTHING redeemable about Darth Vader. His newfound good side and thoughts, we have nothing but crappy dialogue to tell us about, is all we have to suddenly empathize with a character who has done terrible things. It rings quite hollow to me, and I am a big fan.
6. KILL LANDO - Also from Lawrence Kasden's draft, Lando was supposed to die and the Millenium Falcon did not actually make it out of the Deathstar II. There is no sense of sacrifice for the good guys in this film. With no sacrifice, there is a lot less honor. Since we the audience start to feel that the good guys aren't going to die, there isn't a lot of concern, or DRAMATIC TENSION. There it is again.
5. DEATH STAR, or LACK OF IMAGINATION - Why another Deathstar? I understand that in 1977's A NEW HOPE, George Lucas did not intend to do the whole Deathstar blowing up and trench run, but did because of studio pressure and thinking he would never get to play that card later. Still, come up with something NEW. Something imaginative. Rehashing a visual and just the exact same thing was kind of lame. Early drafts had not 1, but 2 Deathstars. That was twice as boring to me.
4. RELATIONSHIPS UNRESOLVED - This too plays into a lack of DRAMATIC TENSION, because when last Luke and Leia were seen together in Empire, she was taking care of her favorite idealist, but confessed to loving his best friend. By going back to a completely unused draft of Episode iV (the 2nd draft) where Luke and Leia were siblings, something OBVIOUSLY not adhered to in the previous 2 films. There was dramatic tension in a LOVE TRIANGLE. If Luke and Han are both suitors for Leia, then there might be a tear in their friendship. Even with the sibling reveal, there was an opportunity to play on this, but it gets dropped in favor of.... no tension.
3. HARRISON FORD - Harrison did not want to do this movie. He has repeatedly stated he did not want to play Han Solo again. Of all the principal actors, he was the only one NOT signed for this sequel. In the end he got a substantially better deal than the rest, but even monetary compensation did not inspire a watchable performance. Han Solo in this movie is unmotivated, poorly acted, and completely inconsistent with anything ever this guy has done in the 2 previous movies. Harrison weighed at least 20-25 pounds heavier and his hair looked like the stylist was Ray Charles in a dark closet. Sadly, Harrison was right in saying Han Solo should have died at the end of the first act to show some sacrifice and also to add some dramatic tension. Even Carrie Fisher, so blatantly coke'd out of her mind on every type of narcotic that existed in 1982, delivered a better performance than Harrison Ford in this movie.
2. EWOKS - No, I never liked the Ewoks. As I was all of 11 years old when Return of the Jedi came out and I found the pandering to be insulting to my age group. Having known for years this was intended to be Wookiees like Chewbacca, how on the hell are we supposed to accept these half sized, product placements as a substitute? I will say there was a single shot where two Ewoks get hit by laserfire, and one of them stays dead and the other one mourns him - that was deep. Now on Blu Ray, these things have iris' and they blink. Creepy, but more realistic. But way creepy. Seeing REVENGE OF THE SITH with a full on Wookiee battle, imagine what this COULD have been like...
1. LACK OF DRAMATIC TENSION PART II : FROM A CERTAIN POINT OF VIEW - Even as an 11 year old, I felt the Obi Wan Kenobi scene from Return of the Jedi to be a series low point. "What I told you was true... from a certain point of view"? Come on, that sucks. Why isn't Luke emotional? Why isn't he yelling at Obi Wan about NOT telling him who his father was? How does the moral ambiguity work for THIS, but not the Emperor or all the people who are drafted into the Imperial forces who die in the fight against the rebellion? The worst thing about this one is having read Lawrence Kasden's draft of this scene that George Lucas re-wrote. In Kasden's draft, Luke IS belligerent, asks angrily, "Why didn't you tell me Vader was my father?" and Obi Wan responds with, "We wanted to finish your training and prepare you for the burden but you left in such a hurry." Luke responds with "But I had to save my friends! They were in danger" and Obi Wan wisely retorts, "and in the end, didn't they end up saving YOU?" and that shuts Luke up and they have a civil conversation. DRAMA of the best kind. Never to be seen in this freakin' movie.
You apparently weren't eight years old when you saw it, cuz if you had been, you'd have loved it!
I was 11 when it came out, the first movie I ever saw in the theatre was STAR WARS in '77 when I was 5. Even then, JEDI kinda sucked because I felt those teddy bears were condescending and made for toys.
The first 20 minutes feel like STAR WARS and rock. After that, all I wanted to see was the light sabre fight and a battle of fleets, because the acting was wooden, the dialogue pathetic, and the effects even got terrible.
Did you see those pathetic matte shots in the hanger? Ugh. Oscar winners slumming it with cheap work.
TOP 10 REASONS RETURN OF THE JEDI SUCKS
10. LACK OF DRAMATIC TENSION PART 1 -In the scene with Leia and Han, right after Luke says, "Hey, you're my sister, even though we played tongue twister in the last movie", and the dramatic tension lasts almost 3 whole seconds before Han Solo, a well known scoundrel, gives up and apologizes right away. No waiting until they're in the battle and she gets shot to make up, thus creating some much needed drama. No consistency with character.
9. MATTE PAINTINGS - Okay, having just watched all 6 movies on Blu Ray, why are the matte paintings so blaringly obvious in this movie? In 1920x1080 High Definition video on a 70" 4K TV, the matte paintings of things like the Millennium Falcon in a hangar show way too much of the paint strokes and look incredibly fake.
8. BAD EFFECTS - In many ways the effects work in Return of the Jedi are STILL some of the best. Then why is some of the worst effects also in the same movie? There are several really poor blue screen shots, like when Han Solo and Lando are talking about permission to take the Millenium Falcon into battle, those shots are so terribly done, complete with the exact same horrendous matte paintings already mentioned. Throughout the movie, several of the blue screen composites rip me out of the movie because of how fake they looked. Sometimes followed immediately by some of the best of the 1980's FX work. See also the shot of Mongo's look alike mourning his dead Rancor, or Luke and Han on the skiff on Tatooine. There isn't a single shot in iV or V that compare to these 7-8 terrible FX debacles in JEDI.
7. DARTH VADER - Okay, even in the context of all 6 movies, When, where, and how did Luke sense some good in Vader? What actions were taken that demonstrate this innate sense of good? The hand cutting and torture in Empire Strikes Back? The killing of a few dozen defenseless children in Revenge of the Sith? Looking at just the original trilogy, there is absolutely NOTHING redeemable about Darth Vader. His newfound good side and thoughts, we have nothing but crappy dialogue to tell us about, is all we have to suddenly empathize with a character who has done terrible things. It rings quite hollow to me, and I am a big fan.
6. KILL LANDO - Also from Lawrence Kasden's draft, Lando was supposed to die and the Millenium Falcon did not actually make it out of the Deathstar II. There is no sense of sacrifice for the good guys in this film. With no sacrifice, there is a lot less honor. Since we the audience start to feel that the good guys aren't going to die, there isn't a lot of concern, or DRAMATIC TENSION. There it is again.
5. DEATH STAR, or LACK OF IMAGINATION - Why another Deathstar? I understand that in 1977's A NEW HOPE, George Lucas did not intend to do the whole Deathstar blowing up and trench run, but did because of studio pressure and thinking he would never get to play that card later. Still, come up with something NEW. Something imaginative. Rehashing a visual and just the exact same thing was kind of lame. Early drafts had not 1, but 2 Deathstars. That was twice as boring to me.
4. RELATIONSHIPS UNRESOLVED - This too plays into a lack of DRAMATIC TENSION, because when last Luke and Leia were seen together in Empire, she was taking care of her favorite idealist, but confessed to loving his best friend. By going back to a completely unused draft of Episode iV (the 2nd draft) where Luke and Leia were siblings, something OBVIOUSLY not adhered to in the previous 2 films. There was dramatic tension in a LOVE TRIANGLE. If Luke and Han are both suitors for Leia, then there might be a tear in their friendship. Even with the sibling reveal, there was an opportunity to play on this, but it gets dropped in favor of.... no tension.
3. HARRISON FORD - Harrison did not want to do this movie. He has repeatedly stated he did not want to play Han Solo again. Of all the principal actors, he was the only one NOT signed for this sequel. In the end he got a substantially better deal than the rest, but even monetary compensation did not inspire a watchable performance. Han Solo in this movie is unmotivated, poorly acted, and completely inconsistent with anything ever this guy has done in the 2 previous movies. Harrison weighed at least 20-25 pounds heavier and his hair looked like the stylist was Ray Charles in a dark closet. Sadly, Harrison was right in saying Han Solo should have died at the end of the first act to show some sacrifice and also to add some dramatic tension. Even Carrie Fisher, so blatantly coke'd out of her mind on every type of narcotic that existed in 1982, delivered a better performance than Harrison Ford in this movie.
2. EWOKS - No, I never liked the Ewoks. As I was all of 11 years old when Return of the Jedi came out and I found the pandering to be insulting to my age group. Having known for years this was intended to be Wookiees like Chewbacca, how on the hell are we supposed to accept these half sized, product placements as a substitute? I will say there was a single shot where two Ewoks get hit by laserfire, and one of them stays dead and the other one mourns him - that was deep. Now on Blu Ray, these things have iris' and they blink. Creepy, but more realistic. But way creepy. Seeing REVENGE OF THE SITH with a full on Wookiee battle, imagine what this COULD have been like...
1. LACK OF DRAMATIC TENSION PART II : FROM A CERTAIN POINT OF VIEW - Even as an 11 year old, I felt the Obi Wan Kenobi scene from Return of the Jedi to be a series low point. "What I told you was true... from a certain point of view"? Come on, that sucks. Why isn't Luke emotional? Why isn't he yelling at Obi Wan about NOT telling him who his father was? How does the moral ambiguity work for THIS, but not the Emperor or all the people who are drafted into the Imperial forces who die in the fight against the rebellion? The worst thing about this one is having read Lawrence Kasden's draft of this scene that George Lucas re-wrote. In Kasden's draft, Luke IS belligerent, asks angrily, "Why didn't you tell me Vader was my father?" and Obi Wan responds with, "We wanted to finish your training and prepare you for the burden but you left in such a hurry." Luke responds with "But I had to save my friends! They were in danger" and Obi Wan wisely retorts, "and in the end, didn't they end up saving YOU?" and that shuts Luke up and they have a civil conversation. DRAMA of the best kind. Never to be seen in this freakin' movie.
Oh, snap! You made a top-10 list?! You know I can't not respond to that.
TOP 10 REASONS RETURN OF THE JEDI ROCKS
10. Jabba's Palace -- You mentioned the first 20 minutes of the movie, which are fucking amazing, but that leaves out the Sarlac pit. All of the opening act is amazing, including:
9. Han and Leia's reunion -- Fan-service, maybe? I don't care, it gave me the feels.
8. Speeder Bikes -- 'nuf said
7. Vader's redemption -- In the end, it's not Luke who saves the day, but Vader. You ask how Luke knew that there was good in his father? Really, you need to ask that question? It's called The Force, and it is strong in Luke.
6. Chewie shouting battle-cries from inside an AT-ST. FFFFUUUUUUCCCCKKK YYYYEAAAHHHH!!!!!! I don't know that there's ever been a more badass moment in Star Wars history. Maybe when Rey Force-grabs the saber in Force Awakens. Maybe.
5. Luke is zen as shit. That's why he doesn't display much emotion. Obi-Wan wasn't his mentor; Yoda was. When's the last time you saw Yoda lose his shit? Never. Luke is following in his mentor's foot-steps.
4. Ewoks -- Try telling the eight-year-old me that the Ewoks are annoying. I loved them. My sister loved them. All of my friends loved them. And don't tell me about the blu-ray with the blinking eyes. The only version you should be watching is the Despecialized.
3. Relationships resolved -- There's no need for a love-triangle in this movie. We already had that. This is the conclusion; it's time for those relationships to find peace, and that they do.
2. Climactic Finale -- Cutting back-and-forth between the space dog-fights, the Millenium Falcon, and Luke-vs-Vader, this is some of the finest action-packed storytelling ever made. Tension is high and it's one heck of a payoff not just for a film but for a trilogy.
1. Carrie Fisher. Thank God she's still alive. I'm sure we can at least agree on that point.
TOP 10 REASONS RETURN OF THE JEDI ROCKS
10. Jabba's Palace -- You mentioned the first 20 minutes of the movie, which are fucking amazing, but that leaves out the Sarlac pit. All of the opening act is amazing, including:
9. Han and Leia's reunion -- Fan-service, maybe? I don't care, it gave me the feels.
8. Speeder Bikes -- 'nuf said
7. Vader's redemption -- In the end, it's not Luke who saves the day, but Vader. You ask how Luke knew that there was good in his father? Really, you need to ask that question? It's called The Force, and it is strong in Luke.
6. Chewie shouting battle-cries from inside an AT-ST. FFFFUUUUUUCCCCKKK YYYYEAAAHHHH!!!!!! I don't know that there's ever been a more badass moment in Star Wars history. Maybe when Rey Force-grabs the saber in Force Awakens. Maybe.
5. Luke is zen as shit. That's why he doesn't display much emotion. Obi-Wan wasn't his mentor; Yoda was. When's the last time you saw Yoda lose his shit? Never. Luke is following in his mentor's foot-steps.
4. Ewoks -- Try telling the eight-year-old me that the Ewoks are annoying. I loved them. My sister loved them. All of my friends loved them. And don't tell me about the blu-ray with the blinking eyes. The only version you should be watching is the Despecialized.
3. Relationships resolved -- There's no need for a love-triangle in this movie. We already had that. This is the conclusion; it's time for those relationships to find peace, and that they do.
2. Climactic Finale -- Cutting back-and-forth between the space dog-fights, the Millenium Falcon, and Luke-vs-Vader, this is some of the finest action-packed storytelling ever made. Tension is high and it's one heck of a payoff not just for a film but for a trilogy.
1. Carrie Fisher. Thank God she's still alive. I'm sure we can at least agree on that point.
Oh, snap! You made a top-10 list?! You know I can't not respond to that.
TOP 10 REASONS RETURN OF THE JEDI ROCKS
10. Jabba's Palace -- You mentioned the first 20 minutes of the movie, which are fucking amazing, but that leaves out the Sarlac pit. All of the opening act is amazing, including:
9. Han and Leia's reunion -- Fan-service, maybe? I don't care, it gave me the feels.
1. Carrie Fisher. Thank God she's still alive. I'm sure we can at least agree on that point.
Hell's yeah, we can agree on those points.
Especially #1. So glad to hear she's okay.