Room tone question

When it comes to missing room tone you can try to create a room tone by finding the "quiet" spaces found in all of the dialog takes and using them as your room tone by looping them. If there isn't enough to loop your generic room tone is better than nothing, but will probably sound so different that it may be better to just "duck" (turn down the volume of) the spaces between the lines of dialog. (BTW, the room tone of the same room will be much different than the day of your shoot, although it would be better than a generic room tone.)

As for your "woods" and "town"... These are ambiences, not room tones, and are classified as sound effects. These ambient backgrounds are just as carefully constructed as any other sound effect or Foley. It's a creative decision, as ambient backgrounds can have a very subtle yet very important affect on the scene(s). You as the director decide upon the sound of the ambient background. As an example... What time of year, what time of day, geographical location, etc. all have a bearing on believability. But there are also the creative/emotional content issues to consider as well, and these are not easily written about. And the mix is just as important as the sounds themselves.

As far as "ideal" levels are concerned the ideal level is the one that sounds the best. I know that this is a very unsatisfactory answer, but, again, this is a creative decision - unless, of course, you have to adhere to broadcast standards; and even then, within those restrictions there is still a lot of room for creativity.

thanks, looping may not work but i'll give it a go. as for the ambaince. it's just meant to be suddle. the sound of construction work in the distance. ice cream man, things of that nature. thinkin about going on a parking garage by my house and getting town audio that way. as for the woods, same. some scenes animal sounds a little louder then usual.

mrpink89 said:

thanks, looping may not work but i'll give it a go. as for the ambaince. [Ambience] it's just meant to be suddle. [Subtle] the sound of construction work in the distance. ice cream man, things of that nature. thinkin about going on a parking garage by my house and getting town audio that way. as for the woods, same. some scenes animal sounds a little louder then usual.

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You need to be careful with "specific" sounds like construction or your ice cream man; unless you have a visual reference (B-roll or they are seen in the background or whatever) they may prove to be distractions, no matter how interesting or cool those sounds may be. As I mentioned, you need to be creative/artistic with background ambiences, but you also need to be informative. Why do you need "town sounds" or "woods" sounds? What purpose do they serve? Does the audience see the town or the woods? What does the audience need to know about the town sounds or woods sounds; what are they telling the audience about the character(s), story, plot, scene, etc.? You are quite often going to be more successful with "generic"/cliché ambient background sounds; they provide a touchstone for the audience. They can also be carefully/subtly manipulated to enhance the emotions of the audience.

Let's take your woods scene. Are you actually in the woods, or are you hearing the woods while indoors? Let's break it down. First, geographic location and time of year. Here in the NYC metro area/New England, in mid/late spring the birds are quite noisy just after sunrise and before sunset; yes, they are noticeable during the day, but not quite as frantic as they are at the beginning and ending of daylight hours. In mid summer the crickets start getting more active at night, and they get more frenetic as the summer goes on, and very frenzied when it gets really hot & humid. In the fall we can hear migrating geese quite often. So if I had a "calm" woods scene on a hot August afternoon I would use some "mild" birds and perhaps some locusts. If the scene was more ominous I would use some "darker" birds, some "meaner" locusts and perhaps a crow chiming in nastily now and then. If I can see the wind moving the branches/leaves of trees some rustling may be appropriate.

I may have several layers of birds and insects and rustling foliage that change subtly during the scene. Maybe it starts "calm" and becomes more ominous as the scene progresses.

Now apply all of those lessons to the "town" scene.

Good listening and good luck!

I'd like to add to the good info Alcove has already provided.

mrpink89 said:

as for the ambaince. it's just meant to be suddle. the sound of construction work in the distance. ice cream man, things of that nature.

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I take it you meant subtle? Your post raises two issues:

1. Subtle and distant are relative terms. What sounds subtle when mixing on laptop speakers is likely to sound far less subtle in a cinema (say at a film festival). Likewise, what may sound like the perfect amount of subtlety in a mixing studio might sound completely non-existent on a laptop or TV. In other words, before you can decide what is "subtle" you have to have an idea of what you are mixing for, what your audience is going to be listening with.

2. Beyond what Alcove said about ambient sounds potentially being distracting without at least a brief visual reference, you also need to think artistically about ambiances. For example, many construction type sounds are harsh and/or abrasive, even when heard in the distance and would therefore add a harshness/abrasiveness to your scene. That maybe very beneficial to some scenes or it may contradict the emotional response you're after in another type of scene.

From the tone of your OP and response, it seems like you might be approaching audio post as a technical exercise. It will greatly harm the perception and overall quality of your film/s unless you start thinking of it as more of an art (albeit with technical considerations)!

G

"you can try to create a room tone by finding the "quiet" spaces found in all of the dialog takes and using them as your room tone by looping them"

On the occasions my audio guy forgot to record room tone htis is generally what he did. I think you only need a couple seconds.

wuz away for awhile thanks for the suggestion guyzz