Online distribution success stories?

directorik said:

Your examples are fact based, either a movie made some money or it
did not. Now we get into opinion - good, decent, believable,
amazing production value, clear salability are all words you have
used and can be very subjective. If I offer a few movies that you
feel do not meet these criteria you will simply say the reason
these films did not make money was because they did not meet this
criteria. My point that making a good movie isn’t always enough
will be lost.

.

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Your point is not lost.

Never said you had to make a good movie, though. Just that you have to make something worth paying for to a paying niche or broad paying audience. I've used the descriptor decent many times now.

The criteria is very simple: saleability

decent Production value
Decent acting
Decent concept

Didn't say a good script. Didn't say names or faces. Didn't say a large budget. Not a Straight rom com, comedy, drama. Even thrillers need names if there isn't a sci fi, fantastic, or very visual element in it. Drama does work when it's niche driven (Christian).

There just aren't that many no name no budgets doing this and executing competently. Although if you have examples again. I'll check them out.

The ones you listed so far are exactly what I would describe as non sellers because of the genre. That's just off the top.

In order to list films I need to have a very narrow focus. That makes it
much more difficult. You can see why I am hesitant. On your list all
you need to do is show a movie has some monetary success - I must
find movies that not only meet your personal taste but in a very narrow
parameter.

Okay, I need to narrow my search to the genres you state. And I will be
very careful in my wording. I will only use your four criteria: sale-ability,
decent production value, decent acting, decent concept.

No drama, no RomCom, no comedy, no thriller. What are the genres you
will accept?

directorik said:

In order to list films I need to have a very narrow focus. That makes it
much more difficult. You can see why I am hesitant. On your list all
you need to do is show a movie has some monetary success - I must
find movies that not only meet your personal taste but in a very narrow
parameter.

Okay, I need to narrow my search to the genres you state. And I will be
very careful in my wording. I will only use your four criteria: sale-ability,
decent production value, decent acting, decent concept.

No drama, no RomCom, no comedy, no thriller. What are the genres you
will accept?

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The ones that sell without names or huge budgets: creature and some gore horror, visual sci-fi (vfx heavy or well executed vfx), fantasy (Templars, dragons, magic, or modern magic), or combinations of those with drama or comedy.

For example ANOTHER EARTH.

Edit: you could throw action in there but that is even going the way of genre bending. Seems that just blowing things up isn't enough either,has to be sci-fi related.

All of these things could have names in the, including drama, and be fine. Without the names those other genres are pretty much a losing bet.

Edit 2: and they don't have to meet my personal tastes. I'm listing what I've seen sell. I'm not interested in most of the material that I've seen sold around me. But, I recognize why it has sold.

Kholi said:

Well, after the avoidance of my question on more than one occasion I'm gonna go ahead and call it a set on the subject.

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I've either answered your question indirectly or your question followed an assumption that did not merit an answer. If you've got a burning question, ask it in a straight manner.

There's really no way to make things any simpler, and I'd someone takes away that you don't need a decent product, you just need to market

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We will have to agree to disagree. Neither you or I are responsible for what filmmakers ultimately take away from this discussion.

I will leave you with this thought: If a huckster is able to squeeze money out of bogus products, imagine what they can do with the real thing.

Want money from your film? Become a huckster!

finderskeepers said:

Liked the trailer! Reminds me of my old neighborhood.

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Thanks. The movie is very neighborhoody.

Kholi said:

And I'm still waiting for someone to show me a decent feature that didn't find some monetary success. It's weird that so many exist but there aren't any being mentioned or linked to in these discussions.

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Ahem!

GuerrillaAngel said:

I will leave you with this thought: If a huckster is able to squeeze money out of bogus products, imagine what they can do with the real thing.

Want money from your film? Become a huckster!

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Basically you're saying we all might as well commit the equivalent of fraud. That's what selling crap as quality is. Fraud. That's the mentality that underpins the infomercial industry -- and their products are far less costly to develop than a feature film, and yet their products fail 80% of the time, so your methods might not be as solid as you think they are.

brianluce said:

Basically you're saying we all might as well commit the equivalent of fraud. That's what selling crap as quality is. Fraud. That's the mentality that underpins the infomercial industry -- and their products are far less costly to develop than a feature film, and yet their products fail 80% of the time, so your methods might not be as solid as you think they are.

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Let me ask you this: Most films are mediocre to crap, are they not? The filmmaker might not think so but great films are few and in between. Even if the filmmaker comes to realize that her film is crap, should she not try to get a return on the investment? The investors will certainly be hounding her.

If you completed a film in good faith and it turns out to be crap, it's not fraud to attempt to get some money out of it. Buyer beware. Besides, who is to say the buyer won't like it?

----

Of course if you're lucky enough absorb the loss, you might shelve the thing to save a reputation. But the film industry is one business where you can redeem yourself after releasing crap.

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win edson said:

My question is, has anyone out there turned a decent profit from distributing online? When I say decent profit, I'm talking over $10,000...

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I've been involved in a couple of projects that have had those kind of sales, but they were audience specific. By specific, I mean that there were forums and members interested in the subject matter. We made THE AWAKENING for a few thousand and it generated a lot of buzz on the superwomen mania forums, which is where most of the sales came from.

We tipped this van for the cost of a $40 tow, then donated it.



Another project that did well online was a synth tutorial that I made. Again, buzz in synth forums got the word out and sales came from there.


There are a couple of sci-fi DVDs that I also sell, but they are extremely low budget and don't do much online business (though they have sold in some foreign territories). Indie movies aren't going to sell much online, unless they have something specific going for them - like a built in audience or maybe you made something that truly stands out.

After working as long as I have on this project, a few hundred dollars isn't going to excite me, but I do know times are tough.

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You just hit on a big factor - tough economic times. I saw a big decline in sales in the last 3 years. The other factor is your internet audience. Unless you are hanging around some Romance forums (your movie's genre), you might find a hard time selling. The other factor that others have touched on is quality. For a budget of 700 pounds, it may not look awesome, but the writing or acting should be good enough for someone to recommend it (word of mouth).

Filmmaking forums are a very tough place to sell, because other people have movies for sale. Members tend to be more critical, compared to fan forums, where many of the fan shorts come from non-filmmakers.

There are superwoman mania forums? Is that some kind of fetish? Or as the DC superwoman? What's the name of the move in the pic? Kinda looks cool. Biker chick with superpowers. Why not!
And what's synth?

Scoopicman, that's one heck of a PR photo!

finderskeepers said:

Hi Win,

Did you get the information you were looking for in this thread yet?

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Yes, thanks everyone for all the great advice and info!!

Basically, I think everyone has a good point, and I don't see the different viewpoints as clashing.

Yes, MARKETING is massively important!!! A crap film well marketed will make a lot more money than a great film poorly marketed.

And yes, Americans (and people everywhere) are suckers!! After all, Americans spent over $15 billion on bottle water last year!!! And films like Weekend at Bernie's 2 have made more than $12 million!

The point of aiming your film at a niche market is also a good one. Niche markets usually have tight networking built in and it's easy to target these people. If we can make our films cheaply enough, then our return doesn't have to be huge and we can make a living what doing what we love to do, which leads me to another viewpoint made...

Hobby. I heard some people mention that they've come to the conclusion that their film making career will always be a hobby. Now, I will say I'm not willing to make that statement, and maybe I'm an eternal optimist. But I will say that this viewpoint is extremely admirable. People who are willing to sacrifice their hard earned money and free time to make films in spite of no profits are true artists and I commend you!!!

One thing no one has mentioned is how quickly things are changing. More people than ever before are getting their TVs internet connected and downloading content. I believe people willing to watch films on a laptop was always limited, but as soon as everyone's tv is internet friendly, then I believe DVDs and even Blu rays will be a thing of the past. Which leads me to this question...

We can all get our films on Amazon's VOD (video on demand). But without advertising and a cinema release, our films will be buried at the bottom of some back page list, right? So, this leads me to my question (I'm an American living in London who can't access Amazon's VOD page as they don't have international distribution rights yet)

Does Amazon have a list of recommended films? Maybe that list even includes some indie films. This can be the great equalizer in our fight to make our films profitable. If one of the major video on demand websites has a recommendations lists that we have a legitimate chance in getting on, than that can be the only source of advertising we need! It's like word of mouth advertising times a million.

Thanks again for everyone's contributions!!!

Win

brianluce said:

There are superwoman mania forums? Is that some kind of fetish? Or as the DC superwoman?

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You will find a bit of both, actually!

What's the name of the move in the pic?....And what's synth?

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THE AWAKENING was shot with my DVX100 and finished in 2005. A producer (Kelly Johnston) asked me if we could make that movie for 5K and I stupidly said, "Yes." I also play the scientist husband, so it was a good time.




Trailer here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRcuStrwRSY

"Synth" is short for synthesizer. I made THIS "how to" DVD, a while back.

GuerrillaAngel said:

Scoopicman, that's one heck of a PR photo!

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Tamra's drop dead gorgeous. Just about any shot with her makes for a great PR photo....



She and I at a stolen location. I was quite the smart-ass, hence her expression.

Scoopicman said:

You just hit on a big factor - tough economic times. I saw a big decline in sales in the last 3 years. The other factor is your internet audience. Unless you are hanging around some Romance forums (your movie's genre), you might find a hard time selling. The other factor that others have touched on is quality. For a budget of 700 pounds, it may not look awesome, but the writing or acting should be good enough for someone to recommend it (word of mouth).

Filmmaking forums are a very tough place to sell, because other people have movies for sale. Members tend to be more critical, compared to fan forums, where many of the fan shorts come from non-filmmakers.

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All good points, but as to be expected from Scoopic.

Way to roll a van, man.

Niche is probably the strongest tool a no name no budget filmmaker has. However, just doing a niche because you want to sell something's also kinda bad. Fans can sniff out frauds from a mile away, when you aren't true to the content or have no stake in it as well it just comes off as a cash grab, word of mouth isn't strong and you flop.

That's my mini-blurb on that.

Anyone got those examples?

win edson said:

Does Amazon have a list of recommended films? Maybe that list even includes some indie films. This can be the great equalizer in our fight to make our films profitable. If one of the major video on demand websites has a recommendations lists that we have a legitimate chance in getting on, than that can be the only source of advertising we need! It's like word of mouth advertising times a million.

Thanks again for everyone's contributions!!!

Win

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It's supposed to be similar to iTunes and Netflix and will recommend you "like types", I don't think there's a bias toward indie, micro, or major motion pictures. But, there could be? It's the smart thing to do, push what sells. Either way, I think you have to provide trailers and a poster for the product on Amazon.

Which are the major sales tools of any visual content. If they don't like what they see in the trailer, why are they going to pay to rent or buy it?

You still need a pretty strong hook and a marketing plan to get people to VOD, if it's not going to be word of mouth. That equates to money.