On the degredation of independent film score composers.

harpsichoid · May 30, 2011

There must be a better way to do this.

These positions are so competitive that a filmmaker can be presented with a whole crowd of composers just by saying 'I am making a film', without them knowing anything about the project, the quality of the work, or the reliability of the person in charge.

On top of that, due to how much people want the opportunity, some of them offer their work for free, which means that everyone is forced to work for nothing to still be a part of the competition.

I'm not claiming to be above this, I'm in there with everyone else, working as hard as I can to get involved as well. It's tiring and it's frustrating, and it seems to go nowhere. It forces me to get angry at fellow musicians who are in exactly the same position as me.

Not long ago I joined a film project I saw on this forum and wrote a new piece of music as a demo, based on details I was given about the film. They joined kickstarter and made over $500 for the project, and I naturally asked if I could maybe be given a raise from nothing to a small amount (I'm a student, a tenner is food for a few days) and was subsequently cut off without any reply.

So from the perspective of a composer, there are a few points that I think filmmakers should keep in mind regarding music.

~ Royalty free music is hardly your first option. Real soundtracks come from giving full attention to the marriage of film and sound, not taking a pre-composed track and trying to mould it to what you've created- it's like forcing a jigsaw piece into the wrong hole, and it will usually be noticeable. There are plenty of composers on this forum alone that are looking for work and will do a very good job of it.
~ Don't automatically go for the composer with the fattest portfolio of previous credits and awards. Some people lie about what they've done, some people have a huge list of previous work that's just full of rubbish, and of course- some of the best talent is still unnoticed.
~ Is the composer actually going to compose music for the film, or are they going to just pick out tracks they have written in the past and use them in the same way as my first point?
~ It helps so much if you already have ideas about what you want. If there are particular influences or orchestrations that you are looking for, it makes the composer's job easier if they have something to work from.
~ If you give short deadlines, don't be suprised if you are given music of a lower standard- musicians don't like working under pressure.
~ The composer is one role in a film project that can be remote and contactable only through the internet or phone, and if this is the case- keep in contact.
~ If you don't have money then there's nothing wrong with having someone work for free. But if there's surplus budget or investment and you are already paying some of your crew then don't forget the composer, even if it's only a negligable amount. Things like musical equipment and instruments have to be saved up for, and the price of photocopying and postage add up too.

Gonzo_Entertainment · Jun 21, 2011

It's the milk and the cow (may have said this before). With a ton of talented people giving away music, why would anyone pay for it. I live in an area with a LOT of musicians (Nashville). I have access to recording facilities. I just find some artist hungry to get their stuff out there, and give them a recording of their song in exchange for the rights to use it in my film.

DeJager · Jun 21, 2011

You all need to move to the upper midwest and/or get out of those saturated markets. I've been looking for crew for my upcoming feature film (PAID positions) and i've gotten 2 responses in 1 month and I've still yet to find somebody I'm totally psyched about.

Nate North · Jun 21, 2011

Interesting post,

I am a film composer, and hire film composers. The conversation is really different depending on what level you're at.

To really make a good movie, I feel like you have to hire someone on the level of a conductor. Your orchestrator is like a second director, directing a movie of pure sound that runs paralell to yours. Watch the behind the scenes on bigger films, and you'll see just how much time and effort goes into a score like "Minority report". Cheap music, old music, pop music, etc, will typically bring down the quality of your film as a general rule.

Period peices or kids films are somewhat of an exception, but generally, don't overlook music as a low budget side dish.

As far as deadlines. The people you are dealing with are very inexperienced. I would never give a musician less than a year to score a feature.

Gonzo_Entertainment · Jun 21, 2011

A year... maybe 6 months if 3 of those months are way in advance of the shoot where he has a script and an idea of what I want to start getting some of the basic structure and progressions worked out.

JoshL · Jun 21, 2011

Nate North said:
As far as deadlines. The people you are dealing with are very inexperienced. I would never give a musician less than a year to score a feature.

If you and I are ever in the same city, I will buy you a beer out of principle. The level that I'm at, ASAP seems to be the deadline. The only feature I've done I did finish in 4 months (complete score and two songs with vocals, no less) and I started getting "is it done yet" e-mails after the first month. I understand the perspective; music is at the end of a LONG process of filming/editing/etc (though in this case it was a new editor brought on to rework a film that had been shelved for a couple years) and music people, I say with no small self-mockery, are flakey at best. But a year to work on a film? VERY nice!

I recognize that's just at the level I'm at. I recall reading not too long ago about the guy who did the electronics and some programming for Avatar. One piece of the score, and he worked on it for over a year. That's not even getting into having a composer with a team of orchestrators, music directors and editors to work with...not having to work a day job while doing it...

Nate North · Jun 21, 2011

Basically as you progress up the food chain, your bosses get smarter. To some degree.

The idea that a film might need a score is not something that "sneaks up" on experienced project supervisors, and has to be done at the last minute.

I started writing music for my new film before the first investment sheets went out. It's been a over a month and none of the 13 tracks are even close to publication yet. Over the next two years I may write up to 150 tracks and then hand pick the themes I want to develop and customize through professional orchestrators that synch dynamics to the footage.

Thought some insight into an alternative process might help some.

Gonzo_Entertainment · Jun 21, 2011

For me Music pre-pro starts at the same time as the rest of pre-pro. That process just varies in length. My time line for a longish short (30 minutes or so) has been rouighly six months from the moment the first line of the screenplay was written until the final completed movie was in my hands, roughly 4 months from the final draft of the script being in hand. For a feature I plan on that time line being closer to a year, However, the composer can still only do so much until the final edit of the movie is available. You can know in general terms what you want to do, even have music largely written, but you have to have the edit of a scene before you can pace the music to rise and fall to the exact edit. I expect in most cases that is 2 or 3 months if the ccomposer is lucky.

Michael Allen · Jun 21, 2011

Nate North said:
Basically as you progress up the food chain, your bosses get smarter. To some degree.

The idea that a film might need a score is not something that "sneaks up" on experienced project supervisors, and has to be done at the last minute.

I started writing music for my new film before the first investment sheets went out. It's been a over a month and none of the 13 tracks are even close to publication yet. Over the next two years I may write up to 150 tracks and then hand pick the themes I want to develop and customize through professional orchestrators that synch dynamics to the footage.

Thought some insight into an alternative process might help some.

That's an interesting process Nate

I have tried that approach you speak of when I've had that sort of lead up time and have found some good themes and sounds that way but when the time comes to start working to the locked off edit it's always a brand new process for me. As soon as I see the film I hear music and I find that to be the most productive muse. It's not until I see the film that I see the movie the director made rather than the one I would have.

Gonzo_Entertainment · Jun 22, 2011

Michael Allen said:
That's an interesting process Nate

I have tried that approach you speak of when I've had that sort of lead up time and have found some good themes and sounds that way but when the time comes to start working to the locked off edit it's always a brand new process for me. As soon as I see the film I hear music and I find that to be the most productive muse. It's not until I see the film that I see the movie the director made rather than the one I would have.

Yep. You can start to get some ideas, some musical themes in your back pocket, but you need a locked edit before you can really start getting down to the nitty gritty.

I actually use very little incidental music. My firat film had a fair bit, but now I use it only in very special circumstances. I write a lot of practical music into my scripts. Somebody is always turning the radio on, or putting a record on the turntable.

Nate North · Jun 30, 2011

in the early part of the process, I'm just basically writing melodies and harmonies. When the cut is there, then you can orchestrate and add dynamics.

So, you guys are exactly right

DirtyPicturesTV · Jul 2, 2011

I kneel before great composers. Kneel, I say!

I just made a 25 minute silent film, for which every second has to be fully scored. The producer's friend happens to be a professional composer of extreme talent, and he agree to do it for free. He didn't hesitate.

I cannot tell you the debt of gratitude I owe to this man. He didn't work any less hard on this music than on the work he does for television. And it's the music that makes a silent film a complete experience -- music is half of the movie!

So yes, you can get composers to work for free, just like anybody else who donates labor to a projects. But make sure to kiss their feet. Repeatedly.

I may never have such good fortune again.

rocksure · Aug 22, 2011

I thought I would point out a website that runs features on different composers and their studios from all over the world. It may help those who are looking to find composers that they think may suit their projects. The site is http://composerstudios.com/ . The site is relatively new, but there are a growing number of composer studios featured there, and infact recently they featured me and my studio http://composerstudios.com/?p=581 as one of them.

Michael Allen · Aug 22, 2011

rocksure said:
I thought I would point out a website that runs features on different composers and their studios from all over the world. It may help those who are looking to find composers that they think may suit their projects. The site is http://composerstudios.com/ . The site is relatively new, but there are a growing number of composer studios featured there, and infact recently they featured me and my studio http://composerstudios.com/?p=581 as one of them.

Thanks for the link rocksure. I love studio porn.

rocksure · Aug 22, 2011

Michael Allen said:
Thanks for the link rocksure. I love studio porn.

NO worries. Yeah I love looking at pictures of studios and equipment, and reading about what people use etc too.

bustthenotes · Nov 15, 2011

JoshL said:
Man, I hear you there. There are some directors that I am hesitant to work with again, unless there is money upfront. There are others I work with that I would GLADLY work for free. The latter are those who treat me well and with respect. If there is some money, they always give me a cut. If there isn't, they buy me a beer or something. I realize, as a musician, I have a huge ego, but music in film is IMPORTANT. Treat me well, I'll treat you well.

I recently did a full-length film. The guy editing it acted in a short I had scored, and liked my music, so gave me a call. I asked if there was any money involved (a fair question; a feature film is a LOT more work than a short). He replied "I thought you could just do it for free, like you did for Jason's film". I ended up doing it for other reasons (and above and beyond what the film needed or deserved, but I don't believe in phoning it in), but I found that really presumptuous and disrespectful.

As a related note/rant, gearing up for 48 hour again this year. Last year in Pittsburgh I was one of three or four people actually doing music in the weekend. Most people were using creative commons library material. I don't do it for the "competition" end of the project, but if I did, I would totally feel ripped off (doubly so since last year they didn't even give out a music award); competing with music that has been worked on for months. In, you know, two days. I recognize that there aren't a ton of composers who want to do a project like that, but given all the people looking to do music in film, you'd think more would try.

Anyway, keep at it, Harpsichord. You'll meet good people and people with money. Sometimes it's the same person, but don't be too surprised at bad work environments, last minute calls and directors/producers who just don't get it. Your stuff on Nick's film was really good, and feel free to rant any time. We get where you're coming from!

Addendum:
Good addage I heard not too long ago. You can have (music/film/etc) something done Cheap, Fast or Well. Pick two.

I realize this thread is months old, but I really wanted to chime in here.

JoshL, you mentioned the 48 hour film festival, and I wanted to say that if there is one in the OP's city, this is DEFINITELY a good route to go. I experienced the madness that is the 48 for the first time this summer, and loved every second of it (we drew musical incidentally haha; I definitely... as instrumental composer, did not sleep once).

I met someone through my brother at a party, we ended up hanging out a lot, and he ended up being a member of a local ad-hoc film crew in my city. When he mentioned the 48 hour, and explained what it was, I wouldn't shut up about it for months until we finally hit D-day.

His team, now my team, was sponsored for the first time this year by a local production company (Mad Monk Studios). I networked with everyone I could, I organized events and meetings for our team leading up to the 48. Until that moment, I never considered composing as a career. Then it happened, and we drew musical, and I found out what I, along with a dedicated team that pushes for excellence was capable of (here is the film - http://vimeo.com/25850307).

Mad Monk was so impressed, we are being given all the resources needed for 2-4 documentary shorts over the next few months (not all of us mind you... roughly 4 out of 11 or so). Me and the director have become really good friends over the course of this, so it's almost a given that whatever he directs... I'll have something to compose. Now, from one film festival, I'm composing essentially for mad monk, and have made great contacts.

After the 48 I felt like I really could do this for a living. I've since studied in depth the fundamentals of symphonic composition, what each instrument can do, the essence of counter point and melodic movement... what it means to score for picture... the fundamentals of film, lighting, types of shots, how shots are set up and why...(still have a ways to go) When before I could barely read sheet music and knew only the basics of film.

I don't have anything in stone that says I'll be a successful composer... and I'm certainly not taking for granted the opportunity I've been given, but I think there is something to be said about using the "free" stuff to build relationships. It's no director's job to give you an opportunity, and if one does give you an opportunity, it's not his job to turn it into more opportunities.