Advice?

Twang...slow down and take a breath. First of all, you're about 6 months late for the rodeo...the credit card companies have tightened the ropes very tight. You'll be lucky if you can get a card at all.

Try borrowing your schools equipment. Do it during Winter break, when no ones around to use the stuff. Don't buy, rent. There are a lot of places that rent equipment that you'll need. If you have to, borrow someones camcorder, and shoot on Mini DV on the cheap. Can't you show your abilities without spending too much money.

Do a little planning and thinking before you jump. Planning and thinking are free. Do a lot of that first!

Chris

Welcome to indietalk.com, jack!

A few thoughts:

Taking risks is something filmmakers must do. If you can get a
credit card with enough credit to buy equipment and make your
movie, even though you don’t have a job and no possibility of
getting any money soon, then go for it. You know it’s a foolish
thing to do. Even your family and friends don’t think you are
serious enough about making movies to lend you money. But
if that's you method, go for it!

twangling_jack said:

Does anybody have recommendations on what credit cards to get? Or is there an alternative method?

Click to expand...

I recommend you apply for every credit card there is. There isn’t
one or two (or five or ten) that are better than others.

Of course there are other methods. While Kevin Smith may have used
the credit card method hundreds of thousands of new filmmakers
make short films all the time without using them.

You say you are willing to take whatever risks are necessary. Are
you willing to take the risk of time?

Here is just one possible path: You MUST know someone with a
cheap, little handycam. One that’s five or six years old. Use
that to make three short movies. They won’t be top of the line,
but you’re a creative, talented guy, right? You can use the
limitations of the equipment available to you to tell several
amazing, entertaining, surprising stories.

Right?

After you spend three or four months making several excellent
shorts with limited equipment, no time and no money, people
around you are very likely to begin to take you seriously. It’s
easy to brush off a “filmmaker” who doesn’t actually make movies.
As you know, there are hundreds of thousands of talkers out there
- there are fewer doers.

Another possibility is to do some extra work somewhere. I
understand that college is eating away your time. But if right now
you had a credit card and could buy a $1,500 camera you would
find the time to make a movie, right? So take that found time and
get a stupid, low paying job 16 hours a week. In 6 weeks you’ll
have enough money to get a cheap handycam and you can start
showing people you are really a “fellow filmmaker” and not just
someone who talks about making movies.

That’s one hell of a risk. Are you willing to take that kind of
risk?

Hey, thanks for the replies guys!

First of all, my school doesn't have any kinds of equipment. I've tried looking into that already. They just don't offer out cameras and boom mics (which are essentially all I really need at the moment). Also, as amazing as it sounds, no one I know really has access to a good camera for me to borrow. Trust me, I've tried pretty much every route there is. I have friends who are keeping an eye out for me. I was shocked when I learned that none of my buddies know anyone that could possible hook me out. Just my luck.

I've never really looked into renting equipment. I'll have to check if there's even a place that would do that. The problem is, though, that I would need the equipment for quite some time. I have to intertwine schooling into this project.

This isn't my first film project. I've shot some shorts and a documentary. I did that because at one time I DID have access to a decent camera and sound equipment. Then, I moved far away, thus preventing that accesss I once had.

It's not that my family and friends don't take me seriously. They know that I am passionate about making movies. They support me. None of them really have the money that they could lend me, and potentially not get back. At least not soon, anyways.

The reason I am aching for money, and am willing to risk my credit is so that I can get a camera, and sound equipment. That's really all I need. I am sure that I can do this without money. It's not like it's and extravagant project. It's just I don't have anything to shoot it with, and I also believe good sound is very important. I think I can do the lighting using makeshift lights and stuff, so I'm not too worried in that department. My short is a comedy.

So, would it be difficult, then, for me to get credit cards to fund this? cibao, you have stated that credit card companies have tightened the ropes and that I am about 6 months too late. Does this mean I have no chance? I had the plan to apply for every credit card I can get. I am just not sure where to start. I just need enough money to buy me a camera to suit my needs (I want a fairly good quality) and maybe a couple of mics (I am sure I can make a boom mic myself).

As for the risk of time; I suppose I can do that. It's not my ideal choice, but if it comes highly recommended, I would be willing to do that. The extra work part, is the one that would be difficult. I am a college student, living in Eugene, OR and attending University of Oregon. Extra work is very hard to come by. Everyone is pretty much looking for work, but not full time (because of school). I've applied for a load of jobs, and have called the places, but so far I've had no luck.

Like I said, I am willing to take whatever risks necessary. I know the consequences. I just want to get my foot in the door.

I was just curious if you have posted any other threads seeing if anyone on these forums lives near you. If that were the case maybe someone would be willing to donate some of their time and gear to help you shoot your short film. I own my own Canon Xl-2, glidecam and smooth shooter setup, a cheap shotgun mic and homemade boom pole, and a few other pieces of equipment, and would be more than willing to help out if you lived near me, which is probably doubtful. I live in Northwest Ohio. I might not be able to help, but someone near you might. It's worth a shot. Hope this helps.

Also I was in the same situation as you are in now and I too thought of going the credit card route but chose a different path. I was attending film school for a brief period of time and wasn't learning much. I strongly believe that film school isn't for everyone. It wasn't for me. The professors weren't very help, actually they were extremely negative and preached about the pitfalls of filmmaking as opposed to teaching the trade. The final straw for me is when my class was told that ANY film made after the 1970's was garbage and a waste of time... Any way back to topic. I am a very self motivated person and I learned more from reading books and surfing websites so I decided to bid a fond farewell to film school and pursue filmmaking on my own. I used some of my student loan money to buy my camera gear. It wasn't a misuse of funds because I was buying film equipment which was an expense for a film student. So perhaps that might be a route for you, you're going in debt anyway by going to school, what's a few thousand more. That might also save you from destroying your credit. There is also public access tv stations you might be able to volunteer at and borrow the stuff you need. Don't give up. There is always a way.

Jack;

First, my opinion of the credit card debt thing is: DO NOT RUIN YOUR CREDIT.
Believe me I know from whence I speak and I am trying to both dig out and improve my credit and it is very hard right now. The economy is a killer. If you can avoid it, don't do it. With all due respect: get a job. Its better in the long run.

Next, I've said it once, I'll say it again. ANY CAMERA is decent when you are just starting out. The hard fact is that you don't have the money to get something expensive. The question now becomes, what can you do? When the choices you have are: get consumer grade camera or no camera, I think the choice is obvious. Then once you can afford the BIG camera, the consumer grade camera becomes your playback deck and believe me, if you have an expensive camera, you don't want to ruin the heads on your expensive camera by using it for playback.

So now what? I bet I have an idea you might not have thought of. (I never thought of it)My aunt told me about this a couple of weeks ago and my first reaction was "nah." Have you considered going to a pawn shop? No, you won't find a DVX or XL-2 there, but you might find a top of the line consumer grade HD camera there. I am sure you will be able to find simple 3-chip digital cameras there. You'll probably be able to get the tripod set up as well. What have you got to lose? The choice is Camera or No Camera. THAT is your reality.

Another place to consider: The camera won't be yours, but Camera or No Camera. Have you considered a place like Rent-A-Center? Again, no DVXs or XL-2s. But the rental is weekly, there are probably HDs available, the digital 3-chips are probably cheaper, rent will be way less than $100 and waaaayyyy less than the $300 it would cost to rent the not HD DVX.

Say it with me: "Camera or No Camera?"

You should remember that when you are starting out, its not the camera that makes your productions good. You have some experience, make the most of it and improve your shooting skills. You can't blame the camera if it doesn't look good, you should be able to make lemonade out of any lemon-flavored camera.

Also, If you are willing to go into debt, ruin your credit, put in the time and take the risks, it is important that you at least see yourself as having the potential to be Kevin Smith. Do not speak negativity to what you are capable of. No one does this thinking they are 3rd rate You don't have the option of thinking that way if you want to be successful. So okay, you might be a 3rd rate Kevin Smith, but you might be a first rate Twangling Jack. Who knows what you are capable of....well you do, but you get my point. Besides, we already have a Kevin Smith.

By the way....Lighting: go to the DIY section of this board and see if you can build something. Get your best friend to help -- because who knows? Maybe the filmmaking bug will get him too...

Everything I am suggesting to you is straight up guerilla filmmaking because that is the reality of your situation and the reality of alot of new filmmakers. So get yourself to that pawn shop and price some stuff. What do you have to lose? Good luck and get going....

-- spinner

Hello There,

Now I can certainly relate, I am about $14,000 in credit card debt and while it isn't all due to film, it is a crappy weight to carry around. The best advice I can give you is that it isn't about how fancy your equipment is, but rather how strong a story, and good an eye you have. Even a simple $300 camcorder can put you in the right direction. Lighting is key, we have fooled many people into thinking that we film in highdef, simply because we know how to light. Practice, practice, practice. A strong script will help you get noticed, regardless of how much money you spend. If you are doing your own editing, I suggest you get good at it, it is extremely tedious work and shows your abilities. We made our film "Diary of a Hitwoman" for under $300, grant it, we wrote, filmed, starred, lit, edited, and marketed it ourselves. However that is the best way to save on money.
The best thing to do if your low on funds, is to try to find other film maker's preferably one's with equipment, and collaborate.

I'll throw my two cents in...

I have no problem with someone using credit cards to get their film made IF that's what it's going to take but...

There's got to be a lot of preparation you can do before slapping that card down... Don't get me wrong, there's a lot to be said for just getting yourself a camcorder and start shooting and let the dice fall where they may.

But if you're eventually planning to get some help to shoot your shorts, don't you owe it to the people who will help YOU REALIZE YOUR VISION to know everything you can know about filmmaking ahead of time?

Especially, the writing?

I personally started out shooting Super8 shorts that I edited IN CAMERA because I didn't have enough money for any editing equipment... LOL. I didn't have money for a projector either so I started off watching my mini-masterpieces on a Super8 film editor.

Of course even a cheap camcorder would be a Godsend today but again, there is quite a bit you can learn BEFORE actually shooting anything so that your first efforts are successful and watchable.

I see camcorders all the time on Craigslist.org that are extremely cheap... I would recommend getting something cheap like this just to get started so you can shoot some very experimental shorts to get a sense of storytelling on video. If you can find something on Craigs or eBay for under $100 (just keep looking and you will find something), you can use it to learn a hell of a lot and then when you're ready to upgrade you can turn right around and resell it and get back most, if not all your money as long as you took care of the camera.

While you do this, concentrate on the story... That's where most shorts fail and that doesn't take a camcorder/camera to learn and improve.

Try not to be a great hurry...

I know that can be difficult but anything worth learning is worth learning well if you really think becoming a filmmaker is your calling.

That doesn't mean not to have a goal however... Give yourself 6 months to a year to learn the basics of filmmaking and screenwriting and during this time, get yourself a camcorder and some tape and experiment like crazy all the while, figuring out the story you want to make for your ultimate short.

Good luck!

filmy

Wow, you guys have, so far, been the most helpful. I really am taking in your advice. I'm actually going to check out a rent-a-center and pawn shop for cameras (thanks spinner, never would of thought of that). I'm weighing out my options. Before, I was worried about the camera quality, but now I'm not so concerned. As you've said, any camera is a good camera, especially in my situation.

I'm still thinking of the credit card option. I know I should get a job to do this, but work is hard to come by when you go to school. Also, I thought that since I'm going to be paying out my school for a few years, that I might as well try out the credit card deal. I know it's kind of a lame excuse to put myself in debt, but I fully realize that.

I plan on doing almost everything myself. I plan to shoot the film myself. I plan on editing the film myself. I plan on marketing the film myself. I'm using friends who'd be willing to help out for stuff like the lighting and maybe a boom mic operator. I already have people who want to act in it, so it's just a matter of obtaining a camera and a decent mic.

Very good advices here.

If you go for a own camera, try any possible festival to get known. I don´t know how the situation in the US is but in europe there are so many small festivals. They are most of the time concentrated on one topic where you have to make a short just for this special festival. There only the idea counts some people even filmed (and won) with cellphone videos! And you can win several k Euros. Also these festivals aren´t that known, in the city or region they are they make headlines. Perfect for getting started.

The credit card approach, I don´t know. A cheap second hand camcorder is enough. Look at the Michael Moore movies for example, they don´t sold and won prices because of the camera equipment. Also think of the blair witch projekt wich would have been crap without the low grade video. Or Borat (the film) what would that have looked/feelled like with dollies and cranes in best HD quality?

The idea makes the film, and even if the film isn´t perfekt if the idea is you shurly will get financed for a big remake.