How did Avatar make so much money?

AudioPostExpert said:
I'm hoping it's just a misunderstanding on your part, otherwise there's little hope of the indy film world ever understanding, employing or developing sound design if even us audio professionals don't know what it is!
Click to expand...

Not a misunderstanding, we have opposing points of view. A "Sound Designer" makes all of the decisions regarding to overall sonic mood to work with visuals. For live theatre and for the major silent film houses one person made all of the decisions about which devices to employ and when to use them to create the desired sonic mood. They chose specific devices, etc. for specific reasons and gave instructions, and in the case of live events scripts to follow, to all of those who would be performing the sounds at the proper times.

Try talking to some theatre types and convincing them they aren't sound designers.
 
AudioPostExpert said:
Silent films were made silent, there was no sound. A tiny percentage of cinemas had a person or a small team of people who created live Foley effects but the films were not made with any sound and the vast majority of audience goers would never have experienced any sound FX when when watching a film. The same is broadly true of the music.
G
Click to expand...

This is not true, they were not few in number. In any case, you miss the point. If there is 1 silent movie where the sound effects and music is created this way, then the definition stands regardless of whether they can be mixed or not.


AudioPostExpert said:
As there was no way to record, edit, mix, design or replay sound in a silent film and therefore no sound stages, no sound recordists, no sound editors, no dialogue editor, no ADR, no ambiances, no room tones, no Foley, no hard sound FX (except very rarely those few performed live), no re-recording mixers, no sound designer and no sound on silent film period (hence why it's called "Silent"), how can the making of Avatar in anyway be likened to silent film which contains none of these audio elements?

G
Click to expand...

Just because they did not use mixing facilities, et al, that does not mean that they cannot be regarded as sound design. What you are arguing about is applying a definition from the point at which was created rather than looking at the concept of how sound is used to tell story, and in many instances substituting for dialogue.

Anyway, I'm leaving you to your opinion.
 
Alcove Audio said:
Not a misunderstanding, we have opposing points of view. A "Sound Designer" makes all of the decisions regarding to overall sonic mood to work with visuals. For live theatre and for the major silent film houses one person made all of the decisions about which devices to employ and when to use them to create the desired sonic mood. They chose specific devices, etc. for specific reasons and gave instructions, and in the case of live events scripts to follow, to all of those who would be performing the sounds at the proper times.

Try talking to some theatre types and convincing them they aren't sound designers.
Click to expand...
Everything you said.

I'm going to check out your work today, is any of it on iTunes?
 
richy said:
................................
I agree this is one of the more important explanations. I have no idea if the statistics support this. I won't even try to look them up. I know there are others much better at that than I am anyway. But I've always remembered watching Cameron on Oprah back when Titanic came out and how a woman in Oprah's audience stood up and told him something like you really get us [women] or was it more like I really get you or the love story in your film really gets me or you really understand love or something like that. I tried to find it on youtube or somewhere, but no luck. The point is, if Titanic really found an audience among women, and Avatar has much the same sort of romance, and the women who loved Titanic expected similar content from Avatar...well. As in politics, the women vote is darned important. I doubt a movie like The Avengers had that sort of built in currency.
..........................
Click to expand...

I suddenly remember in high school the girls were discussing Titanic with the female teacher during Economy class. :lol:
So my 'analyses' from a few days earlier about the romance in the story may be correct?
(It was 'the' one thing that set Avatar apart from other listed movies from Ray's lists...)

Now I think about it (and this just a thought, speculation):
women hardly go to cinemas alone.
They take their friends or boyfriend with them.
Men also prefer to go with company, but sometimes go alone anyway.
Could it be that succesfully targeting women yields a larger average 'pack of visitors'?

Are there lists comparing 'blockbusters', 'girly blockbusters' and 'boyish blockbusters'?
 
Boxt said:
In any case, you miss the point. If there is 1 silent movie where the sound effects and music is created this way, then the definition stands regardless of whether they can be mixed or not.
Click to expand...

Not according to your definition of sound design, which included the mixing. But regardless, I'm afraid it is you who is missing the point. The creation of sound FX, where there were any (probably no more than a percent or two of worldwide cinemas), was done by the cinemas themselves depending on the resources they had available. See the same film in two different cinemas and the sound would likely have been completely different because sound was not part of the filmmaking process. There was no film sound design because there was no film sound, this simple fact is surely not so difficult to understand?

Alcove Audio said:
Try talking to some theatre types and convincing them they aren't sound designers.
Click to expand...

No problem. You find me a theatre sound designer from the 1910s or 1920s and I'll be more than happy to explain and show them how film sound design has changed out of all recognition in the last 100 years.

Alcove Audio said:
A "Sound Designer" makes all of the decisions regarding to overall sonic mood to work with visuals. For live theatre and for the major silent film houses one person made all of the decisions about which devices to employ and when to use them to create the desired sonic mood.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, but this is just blatantly untrue! We are obviously used to working on very different projects. On all the professional projects I've worked on or even heard about, the sound designer definitely does not make all the decisions on sonic mood, it is always a collaboration with the director and usually with the producer and/or the picture editor as well. And comparing the creation of sonic mood in the average cinema in the silent era to what is possible now is like comparing the wright brothers first aircraft with the most cutting edge modern jet fighter!

In fact, with the possible exception of some forms of VFX, I can't think of any area of filmmaking which has changed more from the silent era than sound design. What's more, James Cameron is an expert in film sound design, he actually does most of the guide sound himself and integrates sound design in the film making process from the outset. Christopher Boyes started working with James Cameron on the sound design of Avatar in 2006. Taking one of the most advanced examples of film sound design (both artistically and technically) ever created and comparing it with an era of film making when sound design was not even part of the film making process, is beyond comprehension. If you want to compare modern film sound with the silent era, at least pick a vaguely reasonable example like "the Artist", not a film which is as far removed from the silent era it's possible to find!

If you and Boxt wish to ignore or deny a 100 years of evolution in the art and craft of film sound design, that is of course your prerogative and you're entitled to your opinion. Likewise, I'm entitled to my opinion, that your opinion flies in the the face of the facts and is completely bizarre.

G
 
The success to Avatar, at least in Japan, appears to be an astounding volume of 'indirect communication' via blogging (NOT advertising) AFTER the film's release.

20120701Avatar-DirectIndirectCommunication.png


However, note the 'direct communication' advertising costs (red line) spiking up what looks like fifteen days before and until the film's release, spiking on all three weekends.



Source: http://iopscience.iop.org/1367-2630/14/6/063018/article
Source of the source: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/06/120615103702.htm
Excellent scrounger who found the source of the source: http://www.indietalk.com/showthread.php?p=275047#post275047 :D
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top