Trademark in marketing

Cracker Funk

Cracker Funk

I'm ready to officially release Antihero, but I can't figure out which poster to use. The original poster is really cool, but I've learned that it often confuses people. The newer poster (design concept by IT's brilliant Dreadylocks) much more accurately represents the movie, and I feel also attracts more attention. I have a strong preference for the newer poster.

For those who don't immediately recognize it, that is basically the logo for PBR. My movie features Pabst products, prominently, and I got permission from them to do so:

Pabst Brewing Company grants you permission to use signage and products bearing the Pabst Blue Ribbon Beer and Colt 45 Malt Liquor logos and images in the production "Antihero".
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I can't figure out if that means that I'm also allowed to use the trademarked logo in promotional materials. It would seem obvious that I can use the logo in a trailer, or still photos from the movie, both of which might bear the logo as they appear in the actual movie. But does that also extend to a poster?

I'll save y'all the time of telling me to consult a lawyer. Yeah, I know. This thread is more intended as general conversation; I just want to discuss something that is important to me, but I won't take any advice or opinions in here as official expertise. Also, I do plan to contact Pabst, cuz that's just the obvious thing to do, but their corporation has significantly re-organized since they gave me permission, so I'm assuming it's gonna take a couple weeks to get their official response.

Any thoughts are much appreciated! :)
 
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Cracker Funk said:
This thread is more intended as general conversation; I just want to discuss something that is important to me, but I won't take any advice or opinions in here as official expertise.
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An odd topic of discussion. Your question is so specific.
Opinion is irrelevant and the advice can only be to contact
PBC - which you are doing.

Reading only what you post here, PBC has not granted you
the permission to use their logos and images in the promotion
of your movie.
 
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Rik, I don't think it's an odd topic of discussion. Think of this as a water-cooler discussion. Just because I know that I need to get an official answer from the official people, that doesn't mean I'm not curious to hear the thoughts of peers, in the meanwhile.

I can understand how you could think it odd, because if you had a similar issue that you just felt like discussing, you would simply say something to one of the myriad of people you see everyday. That works for you because the people you see everyday largely includes film industry people. I, however, mostly come into regular contact with restaurant industry people, so my friends and acquaintances aren't people I'd care to pose this question to, even if just for discussion. This is just discussion, that's all, and I don't expect any definitive answer to come of this.

That being said, I appreciate your input, and I think I agree with you. So far as I see, I'd think the term "production" only applies to the movie, itself, and not any promotional material.

Even so, might Mara and Nick be correct? Could this be considered fair use?
 
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Cracker Funk said:
Rik, I don't think it's an odd topic of discussion. Think of this as a water-cooler discussion. Just because I know that I need to get an official answer from the official people, that doesn't mean I'm not curious to hear the thoughts of peers, in the meanwhile.

I can understand how you could think it odd, because if you had a similar issue that you just felt like discussing, you would simply say something to one of the myriad of people you see everyday. That works for you because the people you see everyday largely includes film industry people. I, however, mostly come into regular contact with restaurant industry people, so my friends and acquaintances aren't people I'd care to pose this question to, even if just for discussion. This is just discussion, that's all, and I don't expect any definitive answer to come of this.
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Fair criticism. I apologize for making that statement. I'll keep my
editorials out and only discuss the topic.

Cracker Funk said:
That being said, I appreciate your input, and I think I agree with you. So far as I see, I'd think the term "production" only applies to the movie, itself, and not any promotional material.

Even so, might Mara and Nick be correct? Could this be considered fair use?
Click to expand...
I don't know. I know it's not "fair use" in the legal meaning of that
term.
 
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I have to agree with Rik regarding promotional literature, but normally wouldn't think you would have a problem. However, you stated, " their corporation has significantly re-organized." Someone could be in charge who might have no sense of humor or greedy.
 
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Well, I just now finally sent them an official inquiry. I suppose it'll be at least a couple days before I get closer to answering this question. I spent half an hour on the phone, trying to reach someone who could even tell me an email address worth sending my inquiry to, to no avail.
 
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Their response was swift. They ain't having it. We're all non-experts here, but I tend to think it's similar enough to their logo that they'd have a pretty serious case against me, if they wanted to sue. I mean, it's basically a spot-on facsimile. Plus, even if they didn't have a legit case against me, they could tie me up in court, and they have more money and probably an army of lawyers.

So, now I either need to come up with a new poster design, or change this one enough that it's similar but not such a blatant rip-off. I wonder if something as simple as a change in colors would work? Such a difficult question to answer -- how similar is too similar?

To be frank, I don't really have money for a lawyer, especially since I don't realistically see myself turning a profit on this venture. I think I'll check out one of those websites where you can pay a small fee to have a question answered by an attorney.

As usual, any thoughts are appreciated. Where's Ray when you need him? ;)
 
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That's too bad. But I think you can probably work it. Change the colors, change the direction of the ribbon, turn the blue part into a different shape (maybe more star-like or something), etc, etc. Make it a different design, but enough common elements that people will get it. The beer references will sell that too.

For the record, I like the first better, but I'm a comic geek, so that's sort of a given ;)
 
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I think you should have a tinker with that design and just make it so that it doesn't so closely resemble the company's logo. The design is still very simple, so it wouldn't be too tricky to illustrate a new rosette, change the colour and direction of the stripe and basically avoid any legal problems whilst still making it look like a beer can.

FWIW, I actually think a bit of metallic weathering and shine on the background would make the poster more dynamic.
 
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Yeah, the more I think about this, the more I see that there's no reason why it has to be an obvious mock-up of the PBR logo. It just needs to be easily recognized as a beer logo, in general. Bud, PBR and Miller appear to have some commonalities, so I suppose I'll look to them for inspiration, and create some kind of amalgamation.

Nick, I like your idea of shine and weathering. And Josh, yeah the original poster is cool as heck, in my opinion. I've got a ton of them -- you want one?
 
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Ugh! Sorry to hear that.
I like the 2nd one also.

Other than taking it further away from the PBR logo (and yes I like that idea), you could also try going in a different direction, like putting them "inside" a beer glass/stein. Just a thought....
 
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Cracker, it's great that you're ready to release your film! I remember catching a screening of it at the SoCal Independent Film Fest w/ Zensteve and enjoying it, especially the playful French "new wave" montage. :) (or that's how I interpreted it anyway)

I think both posters are fun and each has certain qualities that make for good promotion, but it wouldn't be a bad idea to crunch a few more concepts through the mill to see if there's a way of perhaps incorporating both styles. I think the original poster could use more information along the sides or somewhere or adding the tagline in the style of the artwork.

a + b = c
comic book + beer logo = ?

there are so many beer logos out there, it wouldn't be too tough to create a new one that says BEER with some dingbats or simple stripes, stars, ribbons, shapes...

beer-logos-and-namescan-you-name-the-beer-logos-2--quiz-by-cheddar---sporcle-games-erftxowf.jpg


beer.jpg


this one from belgium is just awesome
beer,belgium,german,germany,icon,logo-8d4584cd700db78fc7dc93f4e844e3fb_h.jpg


What about making the corner comic book logo a beer can or stein?

just riffing here!

it's a good idea to settle on key art to help promotions, but having done a lot of design and promotions over the years, I've found it fun to throw more out there as time goes by, trying different approaches with different looks...

Go Cracker!



==================
Flicker Pictures
 
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if you could find a local indie brewery in Richmond and approached them about slapping on an "Anti-Hero" logo and "brand" sticker onto a can or bottle, and have them run a few cases off, that would make for a super cool promotion -- even though you used PBR in the film! :cheers:

http://beeradvocate.com/place/city/72/

I know you can do that sort of thing with wine labels.

or heck, buy some PBRs and do your own sticker to wrap around it! Beer cozies would be good, too.

just a thought. :rolleyes:
 
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Flicker Pictures said:
if you could find a local indie brewery in Richmond and approached them about slapping on an "Anti-Hero" logo and "brand" sticker onto a can or bottle, and have them run a few cases off, that would make for a super cool promotion -- even though you used PBR in the film! :cheers:
Click to expand...

I LIKE IT!!!

Especially since I have at least a minor connection to all of Richmond's breweries (the bar I work at specializes in local brews, so my boss knows all the good folk who make them).

Paul, that design is really great! Thanks, so much for putting it together. Sorry I couldn't email a pic to you earlier today, I've been at work. But yeah, I can envision a great way to use this design, while also incorporating the pic I want to use. I'm going to consider a couple other possibilities, but this is a very strong contender! :yes:
 
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