Really struggling with what to do with my short film?

Mistake nr 1.:
Having a trailer, but keeping it hidden.
How can anyone see it if you hide it?
(This comment is not about whether it is good or bad.)

The trailer is hidden for now, because we're still testing.

In fact, here is the updated trailer as I've now got rid of the reversed motion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbJZ3VV42gE

Mistake nr 2:



Birdman is a 1-take movie, but they cut it to make a good trailer.
Is there action? Show something!
Is the one take the only essence? Then you have a problem on the story side...
So tell me: what is it about?

Birdman is a feature though, so they have a lot more to work with in terms of footage.
There is no real 'action' per se. It's mostly in the form of reveals.

Here is the plot summary..

A handful of models have been summoned to a large all white photography centre for what*appears to be a normal day of shooting as the film begins with a photo shoot. The camera then comes alive and takes us along a journey in one single take as we follow the models one by one on their quest to find the real reason they have been summoned.

But I need to stress, that this is a fashion film. The emphasis is on the visuals and the clothes, then the models. Story is probably not even a tertiary priority.

Mistake nr 3:



In other words: remote follow focus by someone watching a wireless signal could have saved the focus in your best take, but it would have probably taken more time to rehearse as well.

Extras?
Are there more people in it than the twins?

Yeah there are around 15 extras.
 
I've enjoyed reading this thread. Good suggestions here.

Blondike, you have excellent reasons for not doing what you must do
to make this movie interesting to others. All of them reasonable. You
need to meet these challenges despite the challenges.

I have made several “one shot” movies. Music videos, a short and 25
minutes of a feature. I've even shot a lot of BTS for fashion shoots.
You can cut an interesting trailer from a one shot short. You have a
lot to work with with 12 minutes of footage. Should be easy to cut
together a 60 second trailer. Perhaps you need an editor.

I get that you're pushing the one shot aspect but if you can't pull
30 or 60 seconds that are interesting then you need to edit.
Sometimes you need to “lose the essence” to attract interest. This
may be that time. Try it. You may not like it but if you can attract
interest in your movies it may be worth it.
 
On the day we managed to get through 5 takes. First two were dress rehearsal. The last three were real ones. The problem is that some parts of the takes 3 + 4 were crisper and in better focus but the last take was the most polished in terms of performance.

The cinematographer used an infinity focus but I think he struggled to find the optimal start point. Again, it was hard for me keep tabs on this because there were 3 guy behind the camera and as soon as we start rolling we were all moving around the venue. And we limited time, I couldn't afford to do many retakes at all.

What performance?

In that case: drop the shot. If you go through it multiple times and every take is bum, then drop it. Because if I saw a trailer where it's only shot is out of focus then I would never watch the film it belongs to. "If they're too technologically inept to shoot a trailer properly, then the finish product must be terrible." That is what your audience would think. I know it's what I thought.

You seem to enjoy complaining that no part of the film can be shown and it would ruin all the surprises. You have to be selective and not just dump a scene in a trailer - just shots, as quickly as you like. I'm currently working on shooting a 2/3 minute short. I already know how I could make a 15/30 second trailer without ruining the whole thing. If you can't do the same with something much longer, then you're not trying hard enough.
 
You should submit to the WideScreen Film & Music Video Festival. That's where real filmmakers and screenplay writers and actors go to have their work acknowledged and awarded (heavy trophies and too)!!! Request info from WSFpublicrelations@gmail.com Submissions begin June 1, 2015 for the 2016 WSF season. Follow the WideScreen Film & Music Video Festival : @theWSFest or facebook.com/widescreenfest
 
You should submit to the WideScreen Film & Music Video Festival. That's where real filmmakers and screenplay writers and actors go to have their work acknowledged and awarded (heavy trophies and too)!!! Request info from WSFpublicrelations@gmail.com Submissions begin June 1, 2015 for the 2016 WSF season. Follow the WideScreen Film & Music Video Festival : @theWSFest or facebook.com/widescreenfest

Someone ban this dude.
 
I might suggest trying to connect with other filmmakers in the fashion industry. Maybe pick some smaller filmmakers, team up with them and help each other out. I did a little searching and found a few directors you could potentially connect with?

https://vimeo.com/givemesam
http://www.fashionone.com/FF

I don't know a ton about making films in the fashion industry, but I am sure that trying to connect with other filmmakers could help.

However, in the end all be all, you need to have something of notice that you can promote. Refine your art, practice your skills and create something the market is demanding. I know for any films you want something that is aesthetically pleasing while also intriguing the audience to learn more about the story behind it. In your case, probably a product or company.

Lastly, invest your time into learning about others and getting to know their mission/goals. If you are sending out an email to someone you want to learn the in's and out's to their company, magazine, website, etc. Or if you are creating a film then you should learn about your audience who you are going to be sharing it with. It takes time and energy to do this, but I have noticed that it creates a much higher return on investment (time, effort and money) because you are investing yourself into their beliefs, and ideas, etc.

All the best and good luck :)
 
Well the film just got accepted to be shown at a young filmmakers festival screening in London.

Managed to secure a magazine publication as welll.
 
Just my 2 cents... And I don't know if this is 'polished turd' as sweetie says...lol.

Are you marketing to the big magazine's for a reason? Why are you trying to compete on that level?The ads in those mag's come from fortune 500 companies like loreal, gucci etc. You can't compete with them....

Why not go to high end boutique clothing stores and give them a flyer/email? and try and get on their mailing lists? Or fashion school profs? Fashion conventions? Garment stores?
 
I showed a colleague your trailer. She was speechless.


Why was she speechless?

Anyway, here is the final film.

https://vimeo.com/130815429

Stands at 4k views, have got some extremely good feedback. Lots to improve though.

The film also got featured on the official Facebook page for DJI

zzdxyHyl.png
 
Hi there Blondike.
I'm new here on IndieTalk, so I wasn't around when this thread initially started. But although you might not like what I have to say about your film (and admittedly I have a bit), I'd really like to give my honest thoughts and suggestions on this film because I like it: I like the concept and I like the ambition. And I would love to see you perhaps give it another try if you ever have the opportunity. For the remainder of my response, I will try to be as constructive and understanding as I can be.

First of all, based on the few examples of fashion short films that I have seen while attending my art college, and from watching numerous music videos while taking my music video production class, the three most important aspects of fashion films and music videos are the three C's: 1. Concept, 2. Cinematography, and 3. Composition.

Things like story, narrative, or continuity really don't have to matter if you don't want them to in these genres.

Based on your initial post, what I gather about your concept is that you wanted to create a completely linear film that would go from one room to the next, non-stop, and feature two different outfits on a two different models who looked exactly the same, so that you could have one leave and the other come on, and it would look like they did a quick-change.

This is a fantastic concept and could really really work. However, your execution of this concept has a few glaring bugs.

1. We see far too much of your models' backs than we do their fronts. So making the connection that there are two of each model wearing two different outfits coming in and out of frame is a difficult one when we can't recognize their faces.

2. The lighting throughout your video is far too dark. Half the time I can barely see the models' faces, and I can barely even make out what they are doing when they meet each other in the hall and exchange something or exchange glances.

It seems that you put a more concerted effort into rehearsing and choreographing your general moves throughout this studio than you did planning for where lights and bounce cards would go to help brighten up the darker regions of your pathway through this building. Then again, you probably didn't have access to much lighting equipment while making this video, which I can understand. But if that was the case, then that should have prompted you to rethink where exactly you would shoot this, and how, so that your footage wouldn't end up as muddy and dark as it has. Having darker portions of your film or video is fine, as long as we can still see your actors when we're supposed to. Lighting ratio and exposure settings are very important all throughout a project.

3. Just like how Birdman was staged, it might have benefited your concept greatly had you carefully planned out where to cut the film and begin the next portion of it, while also still making it appear that the shots were completely continuous. This would have then allowed you to place your camera in a new unique position each time without having to slowly maneuver yourself to a new orientation every dozen seconds or so.

But I think even with shooting a single continuous shot, there are many things that could have improved what we see here.

For the most part, this film is very bare. There is nothing (to me at least) that catches my eye or draws me in. More often then not I'm looking at a young woman's back, framed by whatever is propped up against walls and floors beyond her, and there doesn't seem to be any intention to create a stylistic image or unique and interesting composition at each major point in the film: which there should be.

Composition is everything, even with fashion photography. You want the outfits and the dresses to shine and be the star of the show, right? But at the same time, you sometimes should also create compositions in shots that show contrast and present framing devices with other objects or actors in the frame. This makes a film fascinating to look at.

So considering those ideas, I'm wondering why you decided to shoot your film so close to the seams on the models' shoulders, or their hem lines, or their waists? If the film was a little more saturated in color and we had some closer shots slowly moving across the garments, shooting that close-up would work beautifully. But in a moving shot, especially an 8 minute one, the audience will almost always be looking right at the dead center of frame, wondering what we're all moving towards.

What's at the end of this hallway? What's coming around the corner? Who are we going to see next? But nothing exciting ever comes.

We might get a new outfit and a new model in frame, but they aren't lit or composed in a way that makes me excited to see them. I end up caring very little about the creative design of the outfits and more about where all of these people are walking to. If each room we enter in the sequence had something unique and interesting within it, it wouldn't matter where anyone's going or why.

Why not get wider shots? Shoot with a wider lens so we see their entire torsos. Find a room where you can walk all the way across and film them from a distance with pillars or windows passing across the frame. You don't always have to stand directly behind the models, or directly in front of them. It helps with visual variety to mix in some profiles and wide shots when possible.

I was especially hoping that at some point during the film, we would have gotten some sort of long choreographed dance, or stunt, or even just some people partying in slow motion throughout a long series of rooms. I know that you had a little bit of that sort of thing featured here, but more often then not the extras stood perfectly still.

Most of the time, though, the frame only had one person in it. The camera often felt like it was set too low looking too high. And the only colors were only ever on the outfits: which on a white sound stage can work great, but in a twisting turning building, not so much, especially if everything is desaturated.

I'm not sure exactly how much pre-production time you gave to this project, or how much money may have gone into getting it made. But I truly think this concept is a beautiful one to pursue. It's main flaw (I think) is simply that it just isn't lit or composed cinematically to draw in our attention to either the outfits or the fashion oriented vibe of the entire film. A lot more consideration has to go into all three of the 3 C's before the concept can really make the statement that I'm sure you want it to make.

So if it becomes at all possible for you to re-shoot this project later on this year and create a Mark-II version with a more concrete plan for choreography, action, and color: then I would go for it. Because I would love to see this idea go to the next level. So I wish you the very best with the current film, and whatever you aim to do in the future.

As a piece of visual inspiration, I think taking a few pointers from one of these Minecraft rollercoaster videos will help explain what I mean by composition and color during a continuous shot. This one below is my favorite. Every moment of this video had to be planned out, every angle of the minecraft camera had to be chosen, and every object in the frame had to be designed and placed just right to make the whole effect come together in the end.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afcudstM9zA
 
Last edited:
Hi there Blondike.
I'm new here on IndieTalk, so I wasn't around when this thread initially started. But although you might not like what I have to say about your film (and admittedly I have a bit), I'd really like to give my honest thoughts and suggestions on this film because I like it: I like the concept and I like the ambition. And I would love to see you perhaps give it another try if you ever have the opportunity. For the remainder of my response, I will try to be as constructive and understanding as I can be.

First of all, based on the few examples of fashion short films that I have seen while attending my art college, and from watching numerous music videos while taking my music video production class, the three most important aspects of fashion films and music videos are the three C's: 1. Concept, 2. Cinematography, and 3. Composition.

Things like story, narrative, or continuity really don't have to matter if you don't want them to in these genres.

Based on your initial post, what I gather about your concept is that you wanted to create a completely linear film that would go from one room to the next, non-stop, and feature two different outfits on a two different models who looked exactly the same, so that you could have one leave and the other come on, and it would look like they did a quick-change.

This is a fantastic concept and could really really work. However, your execution of this concept has a few glaring bugs.

1. We see far too much of your models' backs than we do their fronts. So making the connection that there are two of each model wearing two different outfits coming in and out of frame is a difficult one when we can't recognize their faces.

2. The lighting throughout your video is far too dark. Half the time I can barely see the models' faces, and I can barely even make out what they are doing when they meet each other in the hall and exchange something or exchange glances.

It seems that you put a more concerted effort into rehearsing and choreographing your general moves throughout this studio than you did planning for where lights and bounce cards would go to help brighten up the darker regions of your pathway through this building. Then again, you probably didn't have access to much lighting equipment while making this video, which I can understand. But if that was the case, then that should have prompted you to rethink where exactly you would shoot this, and how, so that your footage wouldn't end up as muddy and dark as it has. Having darker portions of your film or video is fine, as long as we can still see your actors when we're supposed to. Lighting ratio and exposure settings are very important all throughout a project.

3. Just like how Birdman was staged, it might have benefited your concept greatly had you carefully planned out where to cut the film and begin the next portion of it, while also still making it appear that the shots were completely continuous. This would have then allowed you to place your camera in a new unique position each time without having to slowly maneuver yourself to a new orientation every dozen seconds or so.

But I think even with shooting a single continuous shot, there are many things that could have improved what we see here.

For the most part, this film is very bare. There is nothing (to me at least) that catches my eye or draws me in. More often then not I'm looking at a young woman's back, framed by whatever is propped up against walls and floors beyond her, and there doesn't seem to be any intention to create a stylistic image or unique and interesting composition at each major point in the film: which there should be.

Composition is everything, even with fashion photography. You want the outfits and the dresses to shine and be the star of the show, right? But at the same time, you sometimes should also create compositions in shots that show contrast and present framing devices with other objects or actors in the frame. This makes a film fascinating to look at.

So considering those ideas, I'm wondering why you decided to shoot your film so close to the seams on the models' shoulders, or their hem lines, or their waists? If the film was a little more saturated in color and we had some closer shots slowly moving across the garments, shooting that close-up would work beautifully. But in a moving shot, especially an 8 minute one, the audience will almost always be looking right at the dead center of frame, wondering what we're all moving towards.

What's at the end of this hallway? What's coming around the corner? Who are we going to see next? But nothing exciting ever comes.

We might get a new outfit and a new model in frame, but they aren't lit or composed in a way that makes me excited to see them. I end up caring very little about the creative design of the outfits and more about where all of these people are walking to. If each room we enter in the sequence had something unique and interesting within it, it wouldn't matter where anyone's going or why.

Why not get wider shots? Shoot with a wider lens so we see their entire torsos. Find a room where you can walk all the way across and film them from a distance with pillars or windows passing across the frame. You don't always have to stand directly behind the models, or directly in front of them. It helps with visual variety to mix in some profiles and wide shots when possible.

I was especially hoping that at some point during the film, we would have gotten some sort of long choreographed dance, or stunt, or even just some people partying in slow motion throughout a long series of rooms. I know that you had a little bit of that sort of thing featured here, but more often then not the extras stood perfectly still.

Most of the time, though, the frame only had one person in it. The camera often felt like it was set too low looking too high. And the only colors were only ever on the outfits: which on a white sound stage can work great, but in a twisting turning building, not so much, especially if everything is desaturated.

I'm not sure exactly how much pre-production time you gave to this project, or how much money may have gone into getting it made. But I truly think this concept is a beautiful one to pursue. It's main flaw (I think) is simply that it just isn't lit or composed cinematically to draw in our attention to either the outfits or the fashion oriented vibe of the entire film. A lot more consideration has to go into all three of the 3 C's before the concept can really make the statement that I'm sure you want it to make.

So if it becomes at all possible for you to re-shoot this project later on this year and create a Mark-II version with a more concrete plan for choreography, action, and color: then I would go for it. Because I would love to see this idea go to the next level. So I wish you the very best with the current film, and whatever you aim to do in the future.

As a piece of visual inspiration, I think taking a few pointers from one of these Minecraft rollercoaster videos will help explain what I mean by composition and color during a continuous shot. This one below is my favorite. Every moment of this video had to be planned out, every angle of the minecraft camera had to be chosen, and every object in the frame had to be designed and placed just right to make the whole effect come together in the end.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afcudstM9zA

Firstly, I would like to say a big big thanks for writing out a reply this long.

In terms of the glaring issues, after mulling over the film the past 6 weeks or so I must say that I completely agree with your assessment.


1. Availability of cast and crew

The main models were only available for two days that week. The day before for† short rehearsal and the day after for the shoot. The camera team were only available for the day. The biggest issue was that the camera operator was only available on the day really as we didn't really have time to rehearse shots. However, you're right. I focused a lot more on the choreography than the camera movement. On the day I didn't really tell the camera operator where to place the camera or how other than a few sections. I only really realised in the edit that most of time we're looking at their backs. I would say that more time on the girls' faces would have meant more rehearsal time though, which there was little of.

But, the composition could have been improved tenfold if I somehow spent more time with camera operator.

2. Money

In terms of lighting the entire set, that would have required a much larger budget which we didn't have available. But I really think it would have improved the film aesthetically.

3. Extras

We had around 2 1/2 hours to shoot the film and due to most of the extras simply turning up on the day with only a summary of their role to go off, I honestly didn't trust most of them to execute more elaborate sequences within that time frame. I thought, most of them are not actors and there isn't a lot of time to rehearse so let's make sure what they do is simple, clean and won't take a lot of time. In hindsight, I could have pushed it a bit further and asked a few of the extras to at least add some action to the piece.

I think I was also too focused on the concept of the 4 twins, that I neglected a conflict. I know fashion films don't need to focus on narrative but I think the project would have been improved with a conflict or more tension.

However, I think it's a decent effort for my first short and I've sent the film around to a few fashion brands and a few seem interested in hiring me for a new project. That's my aim right now. If someone liked the concept and my ambition, they get me on board another project where I can rectify most of the issues this film had.

In terms of re-shooting the film...that's unlikely as the twins aren't really available for the new future but I would definitely consider doing another one take film of similar style with a larger budget ( this film cost around 700 pounds before the edit) and with more experience / knowledge.
 
I think it's a decent effort for my first short and I've sent the film around to a few fashion brands and a few seem interested in hiring me for a new project. That's my aim right now. If someone liked the concept and my ambition, they get me on board another project where I can rectify most of the issues this film had.

And that's the other thing, as long as the film is getting you new opportunities and new options as you move forward in your career, then it is doing its job. So I'm very glad to hear people have picked up on it.

As long as you have new places to go, new projects to work on, and you understand where you can make improvements the next time around, then you are on your way to building a good career. :)
 
Back
Top