Ok So What Now?

M

MattFilming

Recently, I had to cancel a shoot because work, equipment, and actors were getting a little o complicated. First off, I need a better way of gaining actors, managing locations, and getting crew and equipment. I usually ask my friends but we are heading into our mid-20 and free time is not so easy to come by. I have already talked to Film Academys, University, and Theatre Departments, so I think my situation on actors will change for the better.

The real problem at this stage is, renting, buying, or collaborating with a crew and equipment (other than the actors). I went through the process of renting gear at BorrowLenses.com. The total came up to about 300 and tax. 2 Lenses, BoomPole, and Recorder. All willy nilly everything was going good, until they said I need to make a deposit of 3000 for insurance on the items:grumpy::grumpy::grumpy:.WHAT?!?! I mean I could understand asking for it, but after I already purchased the equipment and with no mention of any insurance deposits before making purchase. AAHHH but whatever, the question is Where can I find renting equipment more easily or work with people who already have the equipment? Also, I have a Canon T3i and a ShoeMount Camera Mic. What should my next purchases be (be specific, I already know I need better audio). Also what are some good upgrade from a T3i?
 
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Every single one of your questions can be answered at least 30 times from others who have asked those questions previously on this site (did you search the forum for related questions before you posted?).

But, my first answer for you is the stark cold reality is what you need is MONEY.

It costs MONEY to hire professionals to do each of those trades you want to find an easier way of doing: Sound, acting, camera operation, etc.

Your question about finding cheaper rental equipment or finding professionals who will work for less money than $300 with their professional audio gear is like asking "Where can I find a 5-star chef that will cook me some free food?"

Filmmaking is a BUSINESS. People expect MONEY in return for their SERVICES they provide, like audio, lighting, acting, etc.

The sandbox days of "Hey, you wanna come build a sandcastle with me?" is not tolerated in the wide world of filmmaking at your age. Maybe it was a fun thing to do with your free time with your buds, but now they have jobs and kids and no time left to make movies for free.

So, search the forum for those questions you have about upgrading your T3i, getting better audio gear, etc. There are TONS of previous threads that go over this type of thing EXTENSIVELY.

And, sorry to put it to you harshly, but MORE MONEY is your answer. You want someone to bring his own gear to your shoot and record dialogue? That's gonna cost a bit more than $300 of a rental for a week.

And, putting up posts on Craig's List for "Need Audio Guy to work for free (you get a Credit)" will generally only shore up students or people who have no clue about what they are doing, so I wouldn't recommend it. Plus, on the professional audio forums, they usually copy and paste the most blatant, insulting requests for free audio help for a laugh, because it happens a lot, and it is pretty insulting... Some people just don't realize that filmmaking, specifically Audio, is an exact technology with hard-won knowledge and application, that professionals depend upon being paid for and feed families with...

Those are my 2 cents.
 
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I had to cancel a shoot because work, equipment, and actors were getting a little o complicated.
Click to expand...

What is complicated for some is a walk in the park for others. At a guess, you need a combination of learning to lead more, delegate more and more professional people.

For instance:

I need a better way of gaining actors, managing locations, and getting crew and equipment.
Click to expand...

Casting Director, Locations Scout, Locations Manager and Production Manager would help to reduce those worries. They would also increase your costs, quite significantly. Unfortunately it sounds like you don't have that cash, so you're stuck with what you have. Perhaps you'd be better off making a production that has a lower requirement than the one you're currently trying to tackle. The less people and resources you require, the easier it is to accomplish.

What Utopia said rings true.

To add to it, you need to give people a reason for THEM to get involved or excited about your project. "Because I need to tell this story" doesn't answer why it's exciting for them, only for you.

I agree somewhat with Utopia.

You need one of the following:
a) More resources
b) Figure out a way for yourself to handle what you cannot afford.
c). Find a project in which you possess the resources to conquer.

what are some good upgrade from a T3i?
Click to expand...

An Alexa would be a great choice.
 
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It's fine to ask questions here. That's the objective of indietalk;
a place where people can ask question even if those questions
have been answered before.

MattFilming said:
the question is Where can I find renting equipment more easily or work with people who already have the equipment?
Click to expand...
At film academies, universities and theater departments there are
usually more than just actors. Often you can find crew there, too.
Every production needs audio (even theater) so there may be audio
students with some equipment. University theaters use stage crew;
often stagehands have an interest in film production.

I would not dismiss Graig's List as quickly as Utopia. You may not find
experienced, skilled pros willing to bring their gear and work for free
but you are likely to find dedicated amateurs like yourself looking to
gain some experience. You could also reply to people looking for crew
and volunteer on some projects. A great way to meet people making
movies.
MattFilming said:
Also, I have a Canon T3i and a ShoeMount Camera Mic. What should my next purchases be (be specific, I already know I need better audio). Also what are some good upgrade from a T3i?
Click to expand...
Get a Rode VideoMic and a boom pole. You need to get the mic off
your camera. A small audio recorder like the Zoom H4nSP can help.
Rather than upgrade your camera, upgrade your camera support and
lenses. Get a solid tripod and something like the Prime Video Shoulder
Rig and a follow focus unit.

It's never been easy to get people to work for free on your projects.
How many projects do YOU work on for free as a DP or grip?
 
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directorik said:
It's fine to ask questions here. That's the objective of indietalk;
a place where people can ask question even if those questions
have been answered before.
.................

It's never been easy to get people to work for free on your projects.
How many projects do YOU work on for free as a DP or grip?
Click to expand...

This +1

Yes, it smart to use the search function on a forum, but IT tries to be a helpfull community. :)

As Utopia says: more money is one of your solutions.
If you have that money, it is the easiest solution.

Networking costs less money, but more time: it means helping others out and doing cool projects your cast and crew also benefit from.

One of my favourite actors to work with I met in 2010 when I was casting for a little short to send around with easter.
On a platform for actors and models I contacted him and he thought it was a great idea.
Since then I hired him a few times, he acted for free in a few shorts and I made him a little portfolio-portrait-stat-sheet-video he could use to introduce himself. When you build good personal connections you can open up a lot of possibilities. But it takes time.

Find your local/national platform/community for actors/models to post casting calls and to contact people you think are suitable for the part. Not every actor is always checking out casting calls, but most will recieve and read a personal message.

And yes, shoots can get complicated. If it gets too much it would be best if you have a partner in crime to share the burden a bit, so you don't have to do everything at the same time. I know from experience it is hard to both take care of all the logistics while working on the creative side. Find someone who is better at one of these things, so you can focus on the other part.
Or keep it simple enough to handle :)
 
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@rik and @Walter - Did I discourage him in any way from asking questions?

I directed him to the Search function, since I do not have the answers myself as to what a better camera than a T3i is...
 
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You could start a Meet Up. I found a whole group of people who want to film and work on projects(for free), but do not want to be actors. They range from professionals who work in TV, to complete novices.

There might already be a group in your area.
 
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Utopia said:
The sandbox days of "Hey, you wanna come build a sandcastle with me?" is not tolerated in the wide world of filmmaking at your age. Maybe it was a fun thing to do with your free time with your buds, but now they have jobs and kids and no time left to make movies for free.
Click to expand...

Says who? It happens all the time. Many of us out here work on movies, web and tv when we are not at our day jobs and we do it with the expectation that the deffered pay will never happen. I would rather volunteer on sets than to not do any filmmaking at all and there aqre tons more like me.
 
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@Cryogenic - Whatever floats your boat, man. Glad to hear you like doing that kind of thing for free.

Me, on the other hand, I don't have a degree in Dentistry or Medicine, so I'm making a living doing what I love - Audio Post Production, and I am of the mind you should get paid for it - it's a valid profession, too ;)
 
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Most pros tend to forget that most of us started without getting paid.
That many people even hold down other jobs as they pursue filmmaking.
So it's understandable that working professionals think about the paycheck.

I know I do.

But I'm with Cryogenic - working for free on projects is tolerated, even
into ones 20's and 30's. I still find time to volunteer on projects and I
know many working pros who do, too. And I know many people who
make movies as a dedicated hobby while holding down other jobs. They
just happen to LOVE making movies.

Working for free isn't for everyone. But there is something quite noble
about helping other people as they either pursue a career or as they
engage in their passion to make short films.
 
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Next step could logically be a lot of things,

What lenses do you have for the T3i, though?

There are many groups of lenses that look amazing that I owned when I had my T3i (it was actually my first camera)

You could purchase a set of Super-Takumar lenses, or invest in the more expensive L glass from Canon, or get some of the Rokinon lenses made for cine which are nice,

If I were you I would research what new lenses you could get - like a set of primes - 14, 24, 35, 50, 85, 135, - keep in mind it's a crop sensor.

The T3i is a very capable camera. You wouldn't need to get some new-fangled expensive camera to make a nice film.. I've seen many films on here that look good and were done with a T2i.

If it has to be a new camera, I would check out the Panasonic GH_ series. I have heard many good things about those.
 
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directorik said:
It's fine to ask questions here. That's the objective of indietalk;
a place where people can ask question even if those questions
have been answered before.


At film academies, universities and theater departments there are
usually more than just actors. Often you can find crew there, too.
Every production needs audio (even theater) so there may be audio
students with some equipment. University theaters use stage crew;
often stagehands have an interest in film production.

I would not dismiss Graig's List as quickly as Utopia. You may not find
experienced, skilled pros willing to bring their gear and work for free
but you are likely to find dedicated amateurs like yourself looking to
gain some experience. You could also reply to people looking for crew
and volunteer on some projects. A great way to meet people making
movies.

Get a Rode VideoMic and a boom pole. You need to get the mic off
your camera. A small audio recorder like the Zoom H4nSP can help.
Rather than upgrade your camera, upgrade your camera support and
lenses. Get a solid tripod and something like the Prime Video Shoulder
Rig and a follow focus unit.

It's never been easy to get people to work for free on your projects.
How many projects do YOU work on for free as a DP or grip?
Click to expand...

Nice I looked up the Rode VideoMic and Boompole Kit, most likely with get. UUUUHHHHHH LENSES the good ones( and I mean good not great) are like above 300. I was going to go DIY with the support(cages,jibs, and stabilizer), I will check out the Rig though. Thanks

Murdock said:
You could start a Meet Up. I found a whole group of people who want to film and work on projects(for free), but do not want to be actors. They range from professionals who work in TV, to complete novices.

There might already be a group in your area.
Click to expand...

There is, but I had bad experience with it. I am going to make my own though. Thanks

Cryogenic said:
Says who? It happens all the time. Many of us out here work on movies, web and tv when we are not at our day jobs and we do it with the expectation that the deffered pay will never happen. I would rather volunteer on sets than to not do any filmmaking at all and there aqre tons more like me.
Click to expand...

Thank you. I kinda knew some people would volunteer to be crew on projects. I mean not everyone is a popular contractor that gets called every minute for a job, right. I just wanted some verification from another member. This reply was a real boost.
 
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Utopia said:
Every single one of your questions can be answered at least 30 times from others who have asked those questions previously on this site (did you search the forum for related questions before you posted?).

But, my first answer for you is the stark cold reality is what you need is MONEY.

It costs MONEY to hire professionals to do each of those trades you want to find an easier way of doing: Sound, acting, camera operation, etc.

Your question about finding cheaper rental equipment or finding professionals who will work for less money than $300 with their professional audio gear is like asking "Where can I find a 5-star chef that will cook me some free food?"

Filmmaking is a BUSINESS. People expect MONEY in return for their SERVICES they provide, like audio, lighting, acting, etc.

The sandbox days of "Hey, you wanna come build a sandcastle with me?" is not tolerated in the wide world of filmmaking at your age. Maybe it was a fun thing to do with your free time with your buds, but now they have jobs and kids and no time left to make movies for free.

So, search the forum for those questions you have about upgrading your T3i, getting better audio gear, etc. There are TONS of previous threads that go over this type of thing EXTENSIVELY.

And, sorry to put it to you harshly, but MORE MONEY is your answer. You want someone to bring his own gear to your shoot and record dialogue? That's gonna cost a bit more than $300 of a rental for a week.

And, putting up posts on Craig's List for "Need Audio Guy to work for free (you get a Credit)" will generally only shore up students or people who have no clue about what they are doing, so I wouldn't recommend it. Plus, on the professional audio forums, they usually copy and paste the most blatant, insulting requests for free audio help for a laugh, because it happens a lot, and it is pretty insulting... Some people just don't realize that filmmaking, specifically Audio, is an exact technology with hard-won knowledge and application, that professionals depend upon being paid for and feed families with...

Those are my 2 cents.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your opinion. Ever since I went from borrowing quarters from my brother Coin Jar for ice cream to borrowing thousands from a school for textbooks, I think I learned enough to say life won't run smooth without money. However (and I probably should have added this to my first post), I am 20. What that means to me is time (not as much but still). I figure I could spend 4-5 more years networking before throwing over 3 thousand into a short film. Think back to when you were a newbie, how did you network with others or how did others network to you?

P.S. A guy once told me "If you could make a boat with only wood, imagine what you could make with metal."

Utopia said:
Next step could logically be a lot of things,

What lenses do you have for the T3i, though?

There are many groups of lenses that look amazing that I owned when I had my T3i (it was actually my first camera)

You could purchase a set of Super-Takumar lenses, or invest in the more expensive L glass from Canon, or get some of the Rokinon lenses made for cine which are nice,

If I were you I would research what new lenses you could get - like a set of primes - 14, 24, 35, 50, 85, 135, - keep in mind it's a crop sensor.

The T3i is a very capable camera. You wouldn't need to get some new-fangled expensive camera to make a nice film.. I've seen many films on here that look good and were done with a T2i.

If it has to be a new camera, I would check out the Panasonic GH_ series. I have heard many good things about those.
Click to expand...

I have just the kit lenses, but I was going to get a Prime I just don't know what length to start with. Most people say 50, is that true?
 
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definitely get the 50mm 1.8 lens, it's cheap and gets really great image quality.


I have a t2i but if I were to upgrade I would get a sony a7sii
 
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MattFilming said:
UUUUHHHHHH LENSES the good ones( and I mean good not great) are like above 300.
Click to expand...
I think you'll find that a new camera will be above 300. So when you
asked about a camera upgrade I figured a nice 50mm prime would be
less expensive than the next level of camera.

MattFilming said:
Nothing is wrong with the T3I, I might not even replace in the near future, I was just wondering what would be the next step?
Click to expand...
How much can you spend on this next step?


MattFilming said:
A guy once told me "If you could make a boat with only wood, imagine what you could make with metal."
Click to expand...
In my opinion this is a terrible analogy. Beautiful, functional, long lasting
boats have been made of wood. A wonderful, entertaining movie can be
made on no money at all. You're 20, you have a terrific camera, you should
be making one short film every month. I know that those "When I was your
age" stories mean nothing to 20 year olds so I'll refrain from telling you MY
story but I had it MUCH harder than you do financially and I was making
6 to 8 short films a year from age 15 to 21 when I made my first feature.
I know, I know, that doesn't matter but my advice to you is to ignore all the
very valid reasons why you can't make a short film and focus on overcoming
the challenges and find the reasons you can make a short film.
 
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OK I now understand more of where you are coming from. Sorry - I jumped to conclusions - I do that often.

OK for 400 you can get:
Super Takumar 50 1.4 for $50
Rokinon 14 mil for what - 350?

Then you'd have a good little kit :)
 
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