Does the audience need to know, or can I just imply?

harmonica44 · Apr 13, 2015

In my script the villains kill a cop and the main character cop is angry about it and wants justice. The district attorney does not want to prosecute, because there is not enough evidence against the villains, so he feels it would be a waste of money.

So the cop ends up blackmailing the DA into prosecuting the suspects. However, I am not sure how to go about writing this. If the cop is going to blackmail a DA into prosecuting an 'evidence-less' case, what's the point if a jury will not convict, right? There has to be just enough evidence for the cop to think it has a chance, but not too much evidence cause I need the DA to not prosecute it in the first place.

Basically the cop who is killed, is shot to death in a shoot out. The main cop, also in the shoot out, then has to pretty much take the body, and escape with it, so the crooks cannot have the chance to get rid of it. Once he escapes he then puts the body somewhere, where it can be found, but wipes away his own evidence of being there.

The cop who survived cannot testify himself cause he was not suppose to be there, which is why he left the body somewhere and takes off. But even if he said he was there, his testimony could legally be used anyway.

I originally wrote it so that the surviving cop takes the crooks hostage at gunpoint and forces them to plant evidence. He gets one to spit on the dead body, one to bleed on the it, and one to sign a their gang name on it.

Then what happens is, is that the DA does not prosecute because the investigators tell him that the evidence of the spit, blood and signature, were actually planted by someone else, and not by the gang of crooks themselves. Someone forced the gang to plant the evidence, so the prosecutor does not charge the gang. So the cop learns that his framing of the gang has come off as incompetent, and the DA can tell it was a frame, he then blackmails the DA.

Is this scenario better? That was the original one I wrote, but my friend said she didn't believe it after reading it, because she thinks that a DA would take on evidence even if it could have been planted, and how could they tell really? What do you think, is that more plausible, and I should stick to the original idea?

Or should I just write it so that the body is found, but the DA says there is not enough evidence, and that's all he says. The audience does not need to hear anything more, and the cop blackmails him anyway, even though the audience does not know what kind of faith the cop has, based on evidence whatever evidence there is to go forward with even?

Thanks for the input!

Sweetie · Apr 20, 2015

is not as strong as him having a REAL choice.

Great observation. It sounds right. Are you thinking of only 1 choice of many choices?

What do you think?

I think you need to learn to make decisions. This is exactly why I've only been asking you questions. Getting feedback is great, but this force feeding that others are giving you is making you unable to think for yourself. It's great to have brain storming sessions to get ideas. In the end it's up to you to make it all work.

Does that hold together plot wise, or do I need to come up with something else, that will work for theme, but also make sense in the plot?

You need all the pieces to work together. Do you feel you have that yet? Are there parts that make no sense? Are there parts that will break the suspension of disbelief of the audience? Are there trite scenes/main characters? Is it believable? Are there better options? Does it make sense? Is it boring? Is it fresh and new? Does it entertain? Will it fulfill the target audience?

harmonica44 · Apr 20, 2015

Sweetie said:
Great observation. It sounds right. Are you thinking of only 1 choice of many choices?

I think you need to learn to make decisions. This is exactly why I've only been asking you questions. Getting feedback is great, but this force feeding that others are giving you is making you unable to think for yourself. It's great to have brain storming sessions to get ideas. In the end it's up to you to make it all work.

You need all the pieces to work together. Do you feel you have that yet? Are there parts that make no sense? Are there parts that will break the suspension of disbelief of the audience? Are there trite scenes/main characters? Is it believable? Are there better options? Does it make sense? Is it boring? Is it fresh and new? Does it entertain? Will it fulfill the target audience?

Okay thanks. You and the others have been very helpful! I think I am thinking of the one main choice for now, which is the big choice in the climax. I do not want the climax's choice being made redundant by a forced choice, that came earlier in the story. Well the outline doesn't quite feel finished in my mind. Something can be different perhaps. Basically I feel that the protagonist being charged with crimes is unnecessary perhaps. I mean I want the police to go after him to stop him from committing murder, cause they have great probability to believe he will do it, which is why he is on the run and refuses to surrender.

But do I have to make him be charged with a previous crime, that will result in prison, just for the police to be on his tail to stop him? It seems to me that the partner being injured is unnecessary. I had other reasons for the police to after him before, such as him blackmailing the DA, and then DA reporting it, but I have been told that that idea, as well as other ideas, to get the cops on his trail, do not work, logic wise.

So I have to have his partner be injured to create logic, but it seems like an unnecessary plot development, that is only there to create logic. It seems that a better, more interesting and exciting plot twist or turn, could be inserted to create logic, but that the same time, be more interesting, without the unnecessary criminal charges that he has, that do not really add anything in the story, other than to create logic in joining the plot together only.

But that's what I think, and feel that it's unnecessary and that there is probably a more ideal way to get the cops on his trail, but it seems every other way i have come up with, breaks logic. I mean the reason why the cops are suppose to go after him is because they believe he is going to kill the gang out of revenge, and he is on his way to do it immediately and is not letting other cops stop to bring him in. That's the reason they go after him. But apparently this is not a good enough reason and he has to be charged with something prior, just to have their reason to go after him make sense to the plot, which I feel is kind of a weak reason for the charge. Can't they go after him in another way, other than having to charge him earlier in the story? Isn't there some way the cops can get on his trail, or will they literally have no logical reason to stop him from committing a crime, cause a crook already has to commit a crime to be gone after, and that's just the way the system works, under ALL circumstances?

I feel that the pieces fit together more logically, but not so ideally now, if that makes sense. The script may make more sense, but at the cost of it being less intriguing or exciting perhaps in that area. As far as their being trite characters, I wouldn't say so, although I feel I do not have anything interesting to do with the second cop, if he lives. He was originally written to die, and used to be framed, for everything else to work. But if I write him into a new story now, who's only purpose is to get injured in order to get the police on the protagonist's trail, I feel that I am not sure if I have anything great to do with him after, since he lives now.

Sweetie · Apr 20, 2015

it doesn't quite feel finished in my mind

Wouldn't that be an indication that you need to continue plugging at it?

Basically I feel that the protagonist being charged with crimes is unnecessary perhaps. I mean I want the police to go after him to stop him from committing murder, cause they have great probability to believe he will do it, which is why he is on the run and refuses to surrender.

Aren't you worried that you're removing a choice for the protagonist?

I think, and feel that it's unnecessary and that there is probably a more ideal way to get the cops on his trail

If you (the writer) is thinking like this, it might be time to find a more ideal way. Don't you think?

Isn't there some way the cops can get on his trail

I'm thinking it might be time for some brain storming.

I feel that the pieces fit together more logically, but not so ideally now, if that makes sense.

It sounds like your plot/story/characters might still need work. What do you think?

harmonica44 · Apr 20, 2015

I feel it still needs work, but it seems that whatever method I come up with for the cops to still go after him, is not logical. In the logical real world, the police will only go after you, if you already committed a crime. They will not go after you because of a crime they think you will commit.

This is the dilemma, and I cannot seem to find any solution to this, other than giving the protagonist, a past crime to be charged with, which feels like it doesn't do anything for the theme really.

I have been doing legal research but have not found anything that says you can arrest someone on suspicion that they will commit a crime. Sometimes you can but only for 24 hours for questiong, but what good is that? The protagonist is a cop and he knows that so he would surrender for 24 hours, then walk out. He wouldn't run from that logically since it's easy to beat. The cops could put long hours of surveillance on him as well, but they wouldn't do that for someone just because he may kill some gangsters, I don't think.

So if I cannot find anything legally that will work, than perhaps I could have him be responsible for injuring his partner on and unsanctioned undercover operation, but only if it's necessary, and the law says that you have to be charged with an already committed crime, for the cops to actually come after you.

It seems that it has to be done that way though, as I cannot find one law where the cops will come after you on pure suspicion, and I cannot think of any movies, where cops try to stop a suspected vigilante, without that person being wanted in connection with any prior crimes. Not one movie I have seen has had it my way. So I have two questions I need figure out to finish the outline. Is a prior crime logically necessary? And, is causing his partner injury the most interesting way to go about it, or is there something better, without the antihero's choice being too dark, too soon.

At the same time though, is it possible structure the perfect screenplay? It seems to me that there always has to be one weak link to make all the other links stronger. The wind link here, may be having to cause the partner injury to hold the plot together even though I feel it doesn't add anything to theme. I am wondering if it's possible for every link to be as perfectly strongest as they can, especially since I am not sure if I have seen one movie, where I was totally 100% as satisfied as could be with every element in it.

Sweetie · Apr 21, 2015

I cannot seem to find any solution to this

Sometimes it's because you've painted yourself into a corner you cannot get out of and need to start from scratch. Other times its just waiting time until you come up with a creative solution. You need to determine which one of those addresses you and act accordingly.

harmonica44 · Apr 21, 2015

Okay thanks. I think it's more of not knowing where to go. I haven't painted myself into a corner yet cause I haven't come up with enough yet. First I need to do legal research but when I read law books and ask cops to get a better idea of how to write this, and if it will work.

Another thing, is is that the partner, was actually suppose to be corrupt and part of the gang but wanting to get out, at least in the original story idea. He feels guilty cause of all the hurt, that he has caused, being a part of the gang, especially towards the main cop. So he wants to get out. He eventually wants to stop the gang, but gets killed by them, only to have the main cop avenge him. So it was suppose to be a dramatic irony. Criminal feels bad about what he has done, and is killed, but the irony being that his death is avenged by the cop he has hurt.

But now that killing him off causes other problems in the plot, such as the gang being in trouble so the main cop has no motive to get revenge himself, I have to choose which is more important. The sick irony of the second cop, or for the main cop to have his climax be better. Obviously the latter is the better choice, but it seems that in a perfect screenplay, one could have both? Or is sometimes that's just not possible and you have to choose, no matter what you do?

FantasySciFi · Apr 21, 2015

You keep thinking and worrying about all these elaborations when you need to be thinking about what you can realistically do. This is something you and your friends are planning to shoot.

1. Keep it simple.

You don't need a complex plot line. You're not writing a Hollywood blockbuster. It may be a 'theme' that interests you but not most people. You said you had 'new ideas' but they sound like the same worms you've been baiting with before.

2. It keeps sounding like a bad take-off of "The Fugitive".

I'm sorry this premise doesn't have box office appeal. You're unlikely to get name actors to bolster it. So you need to keep in mind, what you can pull off for your budget. But you keep jumping between genres and don't even see it. You can't make a square peg fit a round hole with forcing it. And even then it's obvious.

3. Sweetie has offered you very sound advice trying to get you to think how YOU can structure your story.

Being a writer means answering these questions yourself. If you can't, you shouldn't be writing. Or, if nothing else, this is just a 'holy grail project' that will occupy you till your dying days but never get realized. Several of us have tried to help guide you into thinking like a screenwriter. From the many suggestions you've received in your posts, half of IndieTalk deserves co-authorship of this script.

4. Movies are more about feeling than logic.

While it's important that elements be believable, if you create compelling emotional reasons for actions, the audience will follow. Audiences go to movies expecting to suspend belief. Did you truly believe everything in "Kill Bill" or "Die Hard" was real? Great directors and writers know this.

5. Recognizing when you need to start over from the beginning.

If you haven't painted yourself into a corner, then why do you keep seeking advice about how to dig your way out? You say you're starting with new ideas but keep going back into the same hole. You keep coming back to the same problem--how do I make something impossible happen? Why would the police chase a guy who hasn't committed a crime? You have only two choices: (1) you don't or (2) you set it in a reality where it's allowed. Spielberg did the latter in "Minority Report".

6. Genre & Character

In "The Fugitive" and "Minority Report" we are following a Hero's Journey, not the Anti-Hero. Both are more about the emotions than the logic. In all your descriptions, you say what he does plot-wise but nothing that describes how he develops as a character except he makes a big choice at the end. He needs to make choices all throughout.

Things to keep in mind.

harmonica44 · Apr 21, 2015

Okay thanks. I think the way I was talking about before will work. I just am not satisfied with the partner cop's development as much. But the story holds together now at least, and that's more important. I think I will go with that. I am going to set at a deadline for myself, and if I cannot make the partner cop's character development as interesting, while making it work for the plot, then I will just accept it, and accept that not all the characters can end on a perfect arc, and have the story make sense.

I wouldn't call it a bad take on The Fugitive. The only thing it has in common is that the police want to arrest someone who will not turn himself in. But is that really a lot in common, just because of that one thing? Should I make this movie, if it does not have a large appeal? Is it worth it, if not?

FantasySciFi · Apr 21, 2015

harmonica44 said:
Okay thanks. I think the way I was talking about before will work.

Which "before" is that?

I'm glad you have a plan. Be sure to work forward from the beginning towards the end in a planned way, keeping it simple and consistent with your characters' personalities.

harmonica44 said:
I just am not satisfied with the partner cop's development as much. But the story holds together now at least, and that's more important. I think I will go with that. I am going to set at a deadline for myself, and if I cannot make the partner cop's character development as interesting, while making it work for the plot, then I will just accept it, and accept that not all the characters can end on a perfect arc, and have the story make sense.

The Story (the big S story) has to make sense. You can have gaps where real world logic is overridden by story world logic, but the Story has to be convincing and coherent.

harmonica44 said:
I wouldn't call it a bad take on The Fugitive. The only thing it has in common is that the police want to arrest someone who will not turn himself in. But is that really a lot in common, just because of that one thing?

Included below are similarities and points from your posts and descriptions.
1. He's sought for a crime he didn't commit.

"I mean the main theme of the movie is the antihero getting revenge for what is done to him in the beginning." "... perhaps instead of killing his partner, they somehow manage to overpower them and escape, but the partner ends up wounded, and instead the protagonist gets charged with a lesser crime ..."

2. He needs to go undercover because of all this to evade the police.

"He has to avoid his superiors and other cops, who are trying to find him and stop him."

3. He's trying to figure out who did it while being chased by police. He's also trying to find the bad guys to exact revenge for killing his wife/partner.

"It goes from being a revenge story, to more of a fugitive story, with more emphasis placed on the antiheroes one crime, as opposed to the gangs numerous crimes." "the main theme of the movie is the antihero getting revenge for what is done to him in the beginning, which is a kidnapping situation gone bad, he wants to avenge. And as he is trying to find the gang and kill him, he has to avoid his superiors and other cops, who are trying to find him and stop him. "

4. He's trying to arrange clues so the police can also figure it out.

"Whatever plan I come up with, I also want to make it so that the police find out about it and try to stop him before he finds out who the villain behind it all is. ... it's a race against time: Cops try to stop him before he gets to the villain."

5. His wife/partner was killed by a dirty cop associated paid by the bad guys.

"The other character is also a member of the gang and is on it, but the cops do not know this."

6. At the end of "The Fugitive" he is exonerated, the bad guys brought to justice. No girl though.

Here you diverge: "in order to have the ending I want, is suppose to 'turn to the dark side', after he kills the gang members in the climax." "The choice of dying an avenger who saved future lives possibly, or going on to live happily with others, but let the criminals go." "I didn't really want to use the wacking ending cause I thought it was cliched." "'Taken' ends on a more positive note, with the revenge being successful, where as my story ends with the antihero failing and ends up being persecuted. ... I don't want it to be a one man show in the end, cause his accomplices play a vital role in his final decision making."

At least in the movie, the viewers leave feeling relief and vindication that justice was served. Going dark with a weak story line is iffy. Which ending is it? He fails or succeeds? It's a one man show or not? He goes dark or gets the girl? Are you sure you really pay attention to genre and story issues when you watch movies? That was the only similarity that you could see?

harmonica44 said:
Should I make this movie, if it does not have a large appeal? Is it worth it, if not?

You and your friends need to decide that. If your goal is to make money, after you finish the script get it professionally evaluated before production. It would be a shame to spend thousands of dollars to make something that only sits on your shelf. It may make it into festivals. As I said initially, be sure that you're writing to your budget since you intend to produce this. You can be pie-in-the-sky but when it gets to production time, you'll then be faced with the more difficult decisions of what to cut out to stay on budget and schedule. Keeping it simple with a solid story will save your butt.

harmonica44 · Apr 21, 2015

Okay thanks. There are some similarities to The Fugitive, yes. But the fugitive deals with an innocent character trying to survive, where as mine in antihero out for revenge, so I feel mine follows different themes, and I never thought about The Fugitive once, while writing it.

When you say I tend to combine too many genre elements, I would like to be more aware of how I tend to do that. So far I find that I have combined elements of three genres. Crime, thriller, and perhaps drama. But I do not see what I have done that is overkill, but I would like to work on that.

When I say the way I was talking about before, I mean the cop's partner living, and just being injured and he is charged for that. The only thing is, is that if I recreate that character and he lives I have to give him a purpose for the rest of the script now, or somewhere to go. I'll keep thinking.

FantasySciFi · Apr 21, 2015

harmonica44 said:
Okay thanks. There are some similarities to The Fugitive, yes. But the fugitive deals with an innocent character trying to survive, where as mine in antihero out for revenge, so I feel mine follows different themes, and I never thought about The Fugitive once, while writing it.

When you say I tend to combine too many genre elements, I would like to be more aware of how I tend to do that. So far I find that I have combined elements of three genres. Crime, thriller, and perhaps drama. But I do not see what I have done that is overkill, but I would like to work on that.

When I say the way I was talking about before, I mean the cop's partner living, and just being injured and he is charged for that. The only thing is, is that if I recreate that character and he lives I have to give him a purpose for the rest of the script now, or somewhere to go. I'll keep thinking.

Okey dokily. I didn't think of that. I mean in "Taken" Liam Neeson is an innocent guy who goes all badass and out for vengeance. And in "Lethal Weapon 2" I guess I thought Mel Gibson was a cop on a mission he kind of went looking for revenge. But that story doesn't share anything with yours except that Mel Gibson's a cop with a partner.

I guess you're right. I mean I always thought that the anti-hero's journey, the protagonist starts off good and turns bad. That's what I read and learned (http://www.writersstore.com/exploring-the-dark-side-the-anti-heros-journey). But you've read John Truby, so you know far more about that than I do. I just always thought his advice was important (http://johntrubysscreenwriting.blogspot.com/2011/02/genres-secret-to-your-success.html) about being careful with genres. Good writers will mix genres but they have a primary one they use for the story to set the main thematic beats.

I know you posted that video by Truby who talked about the detective genre. I guess I was confused because you kept trying to fit everything in there when there are so many others (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Genres). You keep shifting it from a detective genre to police procedural, fugitive thriller, revenge thriller, espionage/undercover and work in romance too. I know your script keeps changing so maybe you don't even know which one you want. It's okay.

Yeah, if he lives he needs a purpose. I can see your problem. Good luck with that.

Sweetie · Apr 21, 2015

I haven't painted myself into a corner yet cause I haven't come up with enough yet. First I need to do legal research but when I read law books and ask cops to get a better idea of how to write this, and if it will work.

Have you asked some lawyers for their thoughts on the subject? Better to use someone who already knows the law than to spend the time it takes to learn the law, right?

I have to choose which is more important.

Or if there is another better option. Yes? Or are these two options the very best available to you?

The sick irony of the second cop, or for the main cop to have his climax be better. Obviously the latter is the better choice, but it seems that in a perfect screenplay, one could have both? Or is sometimes that's just not possible and you have to choose, no matter what you do?

You can always have both. You just have to work out how to achieve it.

I always thought that the anti-hero's journey, the protagonist starts off good and turns bad

It mostly is. From the sounds of it, H44 has turned this from an anti-hero story to a revenge story. Has he adjusted the structure to match?

harmonica44 · Apr 21, 2015

Okay thanks. Basically my script idea first started off as a detective thriller for the first half, as the hero investigated and pursued the violent criminals, and learned some things in himself along the way. Then tragedy strikes at the midpoint and he wants revenge, but it greatly effects his love interest and he has to make a choice as to what is more important. I thought I would have him choose love after what Truby says, but then something else happens, and he ends up choosing honor after.

The genre I always wanted to stick to though, was thriller and suspense, and I wrote with that tone in mind. Even though the last half is a revenge thriller, he still uses his detective skills to get the revenge, since he has to go on a hunt of clues to find who the villains are, and what they plan to do next.

The reason why I have a romance going on, is because when the hero is studying the antagonist, he learns of what happened with the antagonist's love, and he reflects on his own romance to connect with him. So I don't have what I would call an unnecessary love interest. I feel she is a part of the hero's character development, in relation to him learning from the antagonist.

What is exactly the difference between the detective genre, and the police procedural? I think what I intended to write is a revenge story, but with a detective who uses his skills to get it, and of course there are some police procedures that surround the story cause his decisions cause the police to get involved. There are procedures when their needs to be for the plot, such as for example, knowing undercover procedures for that one section where he goes under, but only when it's required to tell the story.

As for espionage, what did I say before to make you think it combined the espionage genre?

I have asked some cops who know laws, to help. They would know the specifics of my situation since it's the police who decide to charge suspects. I found a way to end the story for the protagonist, but need to spend more time on the other character. I feel that there must be some better option there, for him to live and yet create a dramatic irony for him to go out on.

If I can come up with a way for the crooks to get away with his murder, that will help the story end the way I want to, without their being a plothole. However, I found a way to build to a similar ending while letting him live. It all depends on what solutions I come up with, as to which direction will be better.

What's the dfference between a revenge story and an antihero story? I started using the term antihero cause I was told on here before I have an anti-hero story, but I always thought of it as a revenge story myself.

FantasySciFi · Apr 21, 2015

harmonica44 said:
Okay thanks. Basically my script idea first started off as a detective thriller for the first half, as the hero investigated and pursued the violent criminals, and learned some things in himself along the way. Then tragedy strikes at the midpoint and he wants revenge, but it greatly effects his love interest and he has to make a choice as to what is more important. I thought I would have him choose love after what Truby says, but then something else happens, and he ends up choosing honor after.

The genre I always wanted to stick to though, was thriller and suspense, and I wrote with that tone in mind. Even though the last half is a revenge thriller, he still uses his detective skills to get the revenge, since he has to go on a hunt of clues to find who the villains are, and what they plan to do next.

The reason why I have a romance going on, is because when the hero is studying the antagonist, he learns of what happened with the antagonist's love, and he reflects on his own romance to connect with him. So I don't have what I would call an unnecessary love interest. I feel she is a part of the hero's character development, in relation to him learning from the antagonist.

What is exactly the difference between the detective genre, and the police procedural? I think what I intended to write is a revenge story, but with a detective who uses his skills to get it, and of course there are some police procedures that surround the story cause his decisions cause the police to get involved. There are procedures when their needs to be for the plot, such as for example, knowing undercover procedures for that one section where he goes under, but only when it's required to tell the story.

As for espionage, what did I say before to make you think it combined the espionage genre?

Okay but really you want, according to Truby, to have one main genre. When you talked about "Departed" with the undercover, that's basically a police equivalent of espionage only instead of countries you have organizations (police & mob). So if the cop and his partner are undercover, they are acting as spies.

A detective is independent from the police. So if he's a cop, then he's going to be expected to behave differently. What a McGiver, Rockford or other detective does is different from how a cop would behave. Both are kind of interested in getting the bad guy but have different motivations. Detectives are hired guns. Police are generally on assignments which are ongoing. You might want to do more research. NCIS, Law & Order, etc are police procedurals. So if he starts as a cop investigating the antagonist as part of his job, it will feel more like a police procedural.

Now NCIS kind of does what you're saying. They will investigate a crime and then have to go undercover. And there was one episode where Gibbs killed a drug cartel person who killed his family. And I think there was an episode about Mike, Gibbs' mentor too. And Gibbs took vacation time to do that. But I could be wrong. But it's kind of like following police procedure then shifting to a revenge storyline. Though he didn't have other cops hunting him. Though he did have member of his team starting to piece together what happened and not sure what to do since they like him. None of that's important though.

Okay. But if he's an anti-hero would he choose honor? I'm not sure why he'd do that if he's "gone to the dark side" as you said. Would he still get the girl? It might work or might not if he gets arrested for killing the antagonist. Or did he prove the murder at the end? But then he'd be successful and not have failed and be persecuted. I'm confused.

harmonica44 · Apr 21, 2015

Okay thanks. I think of the main character as a 'detective' since that's his police rank. But I understand that pertains to a different genre now. It's a police procedural that turns to revenge yes. Only about a quarter of the plot is under cover work as part of his plan.

When I say choose honor, that's the wrong word. What I mean is choose justice. He honors the dead by getting revenge on him. He decides to choose love at first and live in happiness but then the police want to throw him in jail for taking the law into his own hands before. He then realizes he cannot be happy with his love, so he then chooses revenge. He manages to kill most of the gang members, but not the main one who is directly responsible, for what happened, and who he personally wants to kill the most. He fails there.

Sweetie · Apr 22, 2015

detective genre, and the police procedural?

One is procedural, one isn't.

revenge story and an antihero story?

One is a revenge story, the other is an anti-hero story (essentially opposite of a hero story)

They're kind of vague answers. It's like asking, "What's the difference between Chicken and Beef?"

While it's fine to have different story types as your sub-plots or to combine two, maybe 3 story types together, there still needs to be an over-arching structure that defines your theme. Some story types work better together than others. You need to ask yourself, does what you have work well together. If so, it mostly doesn't matter what the genre(s) are. What you really want to avoid (with few exceptions) is to shift story types completely mid-stream. It can work (for instance, where you're using a hero abandons goal and then switch to a hero's story), but rarely does. Most work best when there is an overall type with a few others carefully weaved throughout the story adding and enhancing the story.

harmonica44 · Apr 22, 2015

Okay thanks. Well in order to make the plot work, I am still stuck at the same dilemma. I need to give the antihero a motive to want revenge, but at I need the villains to get away with the crime, or not be punished harshly enough for him to want it. I cannot have a cop be killed, because then the villains will be prosecuted, so there is not enough motive for revenge.

Instead of the antihero avenging a cop's death, it also suggested to me that perhaps his partner, should just suffer a bullet wound and live, but be traumatized and cannot mentally function properly. Is this enough to avenge someone, where you are willing to throw your whole life away though?

I just need to tweak the plot so the victim lives, and the villains will not be prosecuted so severely, so it makes more sense. Then I have to figure out how to end the victim's fate, in the story, or what to do with him. Then I should be good to, and write the new script from the outline.

Sweetie · Apr 22, 2015

I need to give the antihero a motive to want revenge

umm.... You haven't given it a motive yet? How did you write the rest of it without the motive? Wouldn't the story just fall down in a heap without the character worked out?

cannot mentally function properly

I'm going to suggest to NOT do this. Your level of writing won't let you pull this off. It's very difficult to externalize what's essentially internalization.

harmonica44 · Apr 22, 2015

Well it's the wrong choice of words. He has a motive, which is wanting revenge and justice, but I need a basis for him to get that motive? Does someone he loves die? Do they get hurt, but don't die and are still part of the story? Is that a strong enough motive for revenge if no death occurred? I just need to come up with a basis that gives him that motive, but at the same time, will work for the ending I want.

Sweetie · Apr 22, 2015

A writer who uses the wrong words...

Does someone he loves die?

Do they?

Do they get hurt, but don't die and are still part of the story?

Will they?

Is that a strong enough motive for revenge if no death occurred?

Will it be?

Is that a strong enough motive for revenge if no death occurred?

Will it?

Aren't you the writer? Aren't you supposed to be answering these questions?