short film on dresden

Your American soldier would have to be a POW.

Side note: Dresden was representative of the horrors of war. It was a carpet bombing example of how brutal war can be. So you get four nationalities directly involved in the conflict of this war ...and what? ...you have them all at war with the mouse? War giving birth to war?

Wouldn't the challenge be having the mouse bring them together in the face of war and not precipitate even more hatred? Take something small and insignificant (like a mouse) and have it change the face of war into something good.

-Birdman

Three questions:

What is the theme of the story?
What is the tone of the story?
What does the mouse, in your eyes, represent?

Ever read Slaughterhouse Five? The film actually takes place mostly in Dresden, and at one point one of the characters is captured by aliens. The aliens open up a world of symbolism and colorful language. Understand the mouse and what it represents, it will allow you to continue the story and possibly make it more meaningful or interesting then it otherwise would have been.

Horselover Fat said:

Sorry for the English.
The episode "Fly" of Breaking Bad meets "No man's Land". But were in Germany, during the Second World War.

Dresden, during the war.
A wounded nazi, his italian wife, a polish, and an American soldier, in a cold basement. They have to survive from the bombings. There will be conflict.
But there's a mouse, in this basement. So, they, initially, talk about their problems, and about their conflicts. In particular, between the nazi and the American soldier. But gradually, because they're shocked, they will be distracted by this mouse. Gradually, they lose their troubles, focusing on this mouse. They want to kill this mouse, at any cost.

Now, i don't know how to finish this script.

Click to expand...

Since , the plot happens during world war in Germany , it can't be American soldier but , An Agent from America .

Polish a citizen ? surrendered soldier ?

Since , German being in defending mode (?) being in his own fort , I would rather go for
TIME OF DOWNFALL OF HITLER / TIME DURING BERLIN BEING ATTACKED BY RUSSIAN MILITARY.


but , Again , it can be other way too....

NAZI's ARE still in power ,

Make polish guy a Jewish guy( preteen boy) who got different look than jewish , may be this reason he some how got left out from being captured unlike his parents.


He's seen and adored and taken care by Italian lady at their home.
Her nazi officer husband nor she know about his background . when they discover , both couples shocked. She wants this kid to be saved .
Nazi guy response is positive , unlike his statesman ideology.

LATER HE TRIES his way to make this kid get out of this country.

Make nazi wife pregnant (!!??) , may be around 5/6 month when the present time action taking place.
(come on you can do it ... during necessary time's you should be prepared .....
go for it ..make her Pregnant!!)


Some how in action nazi's came to know about jew guy being with them , This fellow runs from his own army to save his Pregnant wife and jew guy (Wife especially) .
And gets shot . On the run they have reached this point .......

American agent is the one who always wanted to infiltrate the army , so he could no where miss the chance . takes these fellows to his basement .


Nazi guy, stops fighting after watching his beloved wife's death in conflict (while escaping she gets wounded severely than her husband).

He asks the favor of American agent , to fulfill the wish of his wife , that they three live in faraway peaceful land . now his wife is dead , and he is no more interested in leaving the place. At least the Jew kid makes it to some peaceful land like America to have a good life .

What about nazi guy ?

He will do cover up for Jew kid and american agent to escape .

He attracts/drags the attention of whole nazi army group searching for them , and ask american and jew kid to leave the place .

American and jew kid run , while nazi army being busy searching this nazi guy at other end in open.

Nazi guy sees basement door open .

Keeping his arms in surrenders position , appears in front of nazi army.

Surrounded by nazi soldiers. From them emerge FORWARD COMES THEIR group head .

Questions in germany ,
Soldier comes and whisper's saying ' found nazi guy's wife's dead body in basement , no kids body /alive found.'

About kid question......

Nazi soldier replays by spitting on his face......


American and jew kid are now coming down small mountain hope .......

......GUN SHOT ............

American stops ....... kid scared looks at american , American and kid slowly climb the small mountain hope
to see far from they are ,A dead body being surrounded by Bunch of Nazi army .......

Mouse ??
i loved the situation , while the two opposite ends get caught... and their relationship ... based on to achieve something together..... liked it.... small things makes it look good too.

Will be glad if you liked my story line....

Didn't mentioned other way of the story

May be Nazi guy and wife too find a way to settle down in peaceful land like Canada/America .

Hello Horselover!

Didn't you ask the same question with a project that had a Wasp in it?
Would be fun to see it, if it got produced.

1) FLASHFORWARD - two soldiers find four dead bodies under a sliding hatch.
2) four people try to survive under the hatch. The bombing ends. They try to open the hatch, but they don't succeed. In fact, thats a sliding hatch. And they didn't slide that hatch. Its introduced, also, a mouse. One of the character is terrified by the mouse.
3) they think they're trapped in the basement. They try to find an alternative way out. But they don't find it. VERBAL CONFLICT
4) MID POINT (but I don t know what I have to write in this part). After the mid point, the characters are more and more obsessed with the mouse. They forget their problems (wounds, hungry, a way out) focusing on the mouse.
5) ENDING (yeah, I have no ending). An escalation that leads the character to death. Or maybe they die for starving, I don't know. But I have to write in this part something about the hatch, and about the mouse.
6) FLASHFORWARD - the two soldiers are talking. One asks to tge other why they (bodies) didn't try to slide the hatch. The soldier says: "well I don't know". Actually, we understand that they tried to open, but not to slide that wooden sliding hatch.

Plot hole: they go under the hatch. So... Why they didn't know how to go out? How can they get in?

THEME: they're worried about their problems, initially (wounds, a way to get out, hunger, protection). But they're really shocked by the bombing, and the fact that they're trapped (at least, that's what they think) leads them to stupidity, and to obsess with this mouse. Stupidity is a reaction to shock. They don't look the "elephant in the room".

TONE: Its a black comedy.

Thank you

Horselover Fat said:

Sorry for the English.
The episode "Fly" of Breaking Bad meets "No man's Land". But were in Germany, during the Second World War.

Dresden, during the war.
A wounded nazi, his italian wife, a polish, and an American soldier, in a cold basement. They have to survive from the bombings. There will be conflict.
But there's a mouse, in this basement. So, they, initially, talk about their problems, and about their conflicts. In particular, between the nazi and the American soldier. But gradually, because they're shocked, they will be distracted by this mouse. Gradually, they lose their troubles, focusing on this mouse. They want to kill this mouse, at any cost.

Now, i don't know how to finish this script.

Click to expand...

This would be interesting if you could pull it off in any sort of credible way. My understanding of Dresden, from history classes taught in America, is that it could be classified as a war crime. The bombing was so severe, human flesh of the people hiding under buildings from the bombs, melted. Nothing was alive.

The other challenge will be to provide evidence of how these disparate characters ended up in the same place, in Dresden of all places. The Allies made a decision to carpet bomb the place. There were no allied soldiers there. How did an American soldier end up in that basement?

I'm not knocking your premise / setting. I'm just giving you something to think about. Make your audience believe your setting is real.
Cheers,
Aveek

Edit: Maybe it's happening AFTER the bombing. They're hiding because they think there'll be more bombing. ?? just an idea.

trueindie said:

This would be interesting if you could pull it off in any sort of credible way. My understanding of Dresden, from history classes taught in America, is that it could be classified as a war crime. The bombing was so severe, human flesh of the people hiding under buildings from the bombs, melted. Nothing was alive.

The other challenge will be to provide evidence of how these disparate characters ended up in the same place, in Dresden of all places. The Allies made a decision to carpet bomb the place. There were no allied soldiers there. How did an American soldier end up in that basement?

I'm not knocking your premise / setting. I'm just giving you something to think about. Make your audience believe your setting is real.
Cheers,
Aveek

Edit: Maybe it's happening AFTER the bombing. They're hiding because they think there'll be more bombing. ?? just an idea.

Click to expand...

...That's because society doesn't want to identify the real "bad guy" anymore. They want to show the good and bad of both sides. That's what educators want to teach now.

War is war. People get killed. War is a horrible thing. Brutal. Ugly. The reason it's so horrible is by design. The more horrible it is, the less desire there is to be in one. I feel very sorry for the people of Dresden. The lesson that should have been taught is ...."Don't let a bunch of Nationalists Socialists Nazis control your country." Instead, it's "America was a bad guy, too!."

-Birdman

Birdman said:

...That's because society doesn't want to identify the real "bad guy" anymore. They want to show the good and bad of both sides. That's what educators want to teach now.

War is war. People get killed. War is a horrible thing. Brutal. Ugly. The reason it's so horrible is by design. The more horrible it is, the less desire there is to be in one. I feel very sorry for the people of Dresden. The lesson that should have been taught is ...."Don't let a bunch of Nationalists Socialists Nazis control your country." Instead, it's "America was a bad guy, too!."

-Birdman

Click to expand...

You took that line the wrong way. I was trying to credit my professor for telling me about that side (Edit: Professor was an ex marine. All TAs were from the military. This dude loved the military. He hated the politics. He wasn't trying to blame America. He was trying to teach us history). And I was trying to tell our Italian friend, that even in America, they try to acknowledge their history properly. That was my intention. The course was called "On War." We went through a bunch of wars and tried to explain the economic and political reasons for every war, and how wars are won. And it's one hell of a fascinating ride when you look into it and it's never about what the news tells you.

And it's okay for America to be a bad guy too. America doesn't always have to be the good guy, and can be a bad guy too. So what? So nothing. If you look at Dresden, not just America, the entire Allied group, did it for absolutely no good reason other than to teach the Germans a lesson. THAT was the reason it can be classified as a war crime under the definition, when certain actions are taken that is not necessary to save lives or to win wars. I'm not blaming anybody. No need to be sensitive, when you're the 300lb dude in a room full of dwarves.

Anyway, you're taking my post all wrong. I'm enjoying your views on scriptwriting by the way. I think it's spot on.

trueindie said:

You took that line the wrong way. I was trying to credit my professor for telling me about that side (Edit: Professor was an ex marine. All TAs were from the military. This dude loved the military. He hated the politics. He wasn't trying to blame America. He was trying to teach us history). And I was trying to tell our Italian friend, that even in America, they try to acknowledge their history properly. That was my intention. The course was called "On War." We went through a bunch of wars and tried to explain the economic and political reasons for every war, and how wars are won. And it's one hell of a fascinating ride when you look into it and it's never about what the news tells you.

Click to expand...

...No. By the rest of what you wrote I DID take the line the right way. Your "professor" (Marine or not) feels it was a war crime. I'm sorry, but it wasn't. It was an industrialized city in Germany producing machines used by the Nazis to kill Americans (and everyone else). It was train rail transport system and a communication center. The only reason people don't like it is because it was so cold and brutal. Well, ...welcome to war!

trueindie said:

And it's okay for America to be a bad guy too. America doesn't always have to be the good guy, and can be a bad guy too. So what? So nothing. If you look at Dresden, not just America, the entire Allied group, did it for absolutely no good reason other than to teach the Germans a lesson. THAT was the reason it can be classified as a war crime under the definition, when certain actions are taken that is not necessary to save lives or to win wars. I'm not blaming anybody. No need to be sensitive, when you're the 300lb dude in a room full of dwarves..

Click to expand...

Again, that's simply not true. It was a viable target just like Dayton, Ohio would be in a nuclear war. Dayton is a very simple city, but also has aircraft engine manufacturing plants that could help deliver nuclear weapons to whomever we happen to be fighting.

Do I expect that Dayton would be a target? ...Yes!

Will millions of innocent people probably be killed? ...Yes!

Would they knock out GE's engine plants? ...Yes!

Does war suck? ...Yes!

Do I get to whine about it afterwards because nuclear weapons made war so nasty? ...No!

trueindie said:

Anyway, you're taking my post all wrong. I'm enjoying your views on scriptwriting by the way. I think it's spot on.

Click to expand...

...No, I think I followed your thinking on this all the way through. And you're the first to ever say this.



-Birdman

Birdman said:

...No. By the rest of what you wrote I DID take the line the right way. Your "professor" (Marine or not) feels it was a war crime. I'm sorry, but it wasn't. It was an industrialized city in Germany producing machines used by the Nazis to kill Americans (and everyone else). It was train rail transport system and a communication center. The only reason people don't like it is because it was so cold and brutal. Well, ...welcome to war!




Again, that's simply not true. It was a viable target just like Dayton, Ohio would be in a nuclear war. Dayton is a very simple city, but also has aircraft engine manufacturing plants that could help deliver nuclear weapons to whomever we happen to be fighting.

Do I expect that Dayton would be a target? ...Yes!

Will millions of innocent people probably be killed? ...Yes!

Would they knock out GE's engine plants? ...Yes!

Does war suck? ...Yes!

Do I get to whine about it afterwards because nuclear weapons made war so nasty? ...No!





...No, I think I followed your thinking on this all the way through. And you're the first to ever say this.



-Birdman

Click to expand...

We're not supposed to get too political on this forum, so that's not my intention. Just wanted to say that as a disclaimer.

I can see what you're saying about Dresden being an industrialized city. That was the reason provided. You obviously know about Dresden, so you must know that this is not something my professor cooked up, but that there has been commissions set up to find out if the bombing was necessary. This is not really as clear cut as you seem to make it out to be. The real reason Dresden, and the nature of the bombing, was at issue was because of the timing. It was done near the end of the war, when the Germans were retreating everywhere, and had pretty much lost the war. You can still argue that it was necessary even if it saves one American life. But I'm sure the Germans would take your opinion otherwise. Personally, I would agree with the Germans. And that doesn't mean I'm blaming anyone.

The Japanese are not taught what they did to the Chinese or to the Koreans. It doesn't mean that the Chinese don't know. And it doesn't mean all that crap didn't happen. It also doesn't mean that the Japanese are evil, just because somebody brings up Nanking. Just because British and American air forces conducted the bombing, doesn't make America evil. That's not the point. It's okay to figure out the reasons for why people do things in wars. "Welcome to war / war sucks / stop being a crybaby," (I'm putting words in your mouth now, but that's the feeling I get from your reply) isn't really a mature response. Everybody knows war sucks. If you ask the Germans, they'll probably ask you if the carpet bombing was necessary to do in 1945, and it would be a legitimate question. It's obviously a legitimate question, and that's why studies have been done on it. Just saying "war sucks / deal with it" is not exactly having a discourse. And just because somebody doesn't agree with the bombing of Dresden, the particular way it was bombed, doesn't mean they're blaming somebody.

No!!! You didn't follow my thinking. I'm not sure we're going to get anywhere on this one.

I meant what I said about your scriptwriting opinions. I'm staying away from that discussion, because normally, around here, I'm the bad guy. I'll let you be the bad guy this time.

Cheers,
Aveek

My statements about war are not directed at you at all. They are generalized statements about war for anyone who feels the need to sanitize how bad it is.

MY point is that today's society cannot tell who the bad guy is anymore. There's a whole big thread about "Bad Guys" going on right now in this forum ...how we have to find some kind of "depth" in these characters or find out why they became such bad guys ...or maybe show a good side of the bad guy.

You can't depict a "Bad Guy" as a real "Bad Guy" anymore. He has to have his bright side or your script ends up in the trash.

Once you (meaning anyone) can't tell the difference between the good guy and the "Bad Guy" ...then civilization is lost.

America was not the bad guy in WWII. If not for America, the outcome would have been totally different and you and I wouldn't be having this conversation right now. The people who want to re-write history into something more "palatable" are of the same thinking as the Screenplay Writers" who want to find the "good side" of evil people. Dresden was bad. ...REAL bad. Again, Next time Germany has to make sure Nationalist Socialists don't come into power or they will face the same.

It's all designed to raise "doubt". ...>Write a script that "clarifies"!

-Birdman

Birdman said:

America was not the bad guy in WWII.

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Nobody said that America was the bad guy. You interpreted criticism of Allied action (which included Russia, although not in Dresden), as blaming America. You're being too sensitive

Again, Next time Germany has to make sure Nationalist Socialists don't come into power or they will face the same.

Click to expand...

Now that's not nice. It's not personal man, whether it's about America or Germany. When you make it personal, emotions get involved and it's harder to analyze a given situation. Sure everything is personal, and WWII was personal to many people. But in order to objectively discuss/criticize, one needs to get the personal entanglements out of the way.

It's all designed to raise "doubt". ...>Write a script that "clarifies"!
-Birdman

Click to expand...

Now that's good . I like that. Doubt can be interesting. But clarity, is difficult to pull off. It's quite a task.

Sorry for hijacking your thread Horselover. Hope you make that film.
Cheers

trueindie said:

Now that's not nice. It's not personal man, whether it's about America or Germany. When you make it personal, emotions get involved and it's harder to analyze a given situation. Sure everything is personal, and WWII was personal to many people. But in order to objectively discuss/criticize, one needs to get the personal entanglements out of the way.

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Okay, this part I don't understand? Nazi = "National Socialist German Workers' Party "

That's what they were! It's nothing "personal". It's a documented historical fact. If you allow these types of people to control your country ...then expect to have your cities burning just like Dresden did. That's what precipitates! That goes for America just as well. If these people took charge of our country ...our cities will burn. ...I would expect nothing less.


Tell me how this is somehow "personal"?

-Birdman

Birdman said:

Okay, this part I don't understand? Nazi = "National Socialist German Workers' Party "

That's what they were! It's nothing "personal". It's a documented historical fact. If you allow these types of people to control your country ...then expect to have your cities burning just like Dresden did. That's what precipitates! That goes for America just as well. If these people took charge of our country ...our cities will burn. ...I would expect nothing less.


Tell me how this is somehow "personal"?

-Birdman

Click to expand...

I'm just saying it's not nice to say "Don't do this, or else... we'll get you, or somebody else will get you, and your cities will burn." That to me is extreme, and emotional. I thought you took my opinion on Dresden personally. You thought I was blaming America. People, and all countries, do all kinds of crazy sh*t. Nobody knows at the time they're doing it, what the hell it is they're really doing. So a threat like "don't do such and such or else" can't really apply to anybody. It doesn't work. People still do crazy things. I just thought it wasn't necessary.

Birdman... you're making me spend too much time here today bud. Write your script. I wanna see it.
Aveek

Well, WWII is still too recent in history to debate anyway.

"Rome", however, is always fair game. People can talk about how bad the Romans were and how brutal their tactics were all the time and get little resistance. Crucifixions, torture, floggings, world domination, etc. etc. You'll often hear people say, "Last thing we need is another Rome" and everyone understands the point. Bring up Nazis, though, ...Uh ohhh! ...watch out!

I guess people need more time to pass before the truth can be spoken.

-Birdman

P.S. My scrip was 320 pages at one point. I have it down to 180. ...This has become very hard!