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Old 05-04-2015, 04:10 PM   #16
AudioPostExpert
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Originally Posted by film_autre View Post
I was under the impression a 2.0 mix would cover both standard stereo and headphone (thought they were basically the same thing) so are they different?
A 2.0 stereo mix will cover both home/computer stereo systems and headphones. However, with just one mix there would have to be some compromise either when played on the stereo system or on headphones. With TVs, laptop and some computer systems the two speakers are quite close together, so we tend to create very wide mixes, mixes with quite a lot of the audio material panned hard left and hard right, to try and counteract the narrowing effect of having the speakers close together. Headphones on the other hand do the exact opposite, because the left and right speakers feed directly into your left and right ears, headphones tend to make the stereo image appear artificially wider. Headphones also affect the aural depth perception, provide a different frequency response and of course also reveal more detail than consumer TVs, computers and stereo systems. Obviously, having a more detailed mix for headphones isn't going to negatively affect the mix when it's played on a stereo system but accounting for the other differences will.

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Originally Posted by film_autre View Post
I have no idea what a binaural mix is, its difficult to describe what I want exactly but the idea is that the film will be on youtube and watched by no one but if they do, then they would most likely be watching from a computer or device using its speakers, with a few wearing headphones, so what would you suggest be the optimal mix for the general public?
A binaural mix is a special type of stereo mix designed specifically for headphones. Binaural mixes employ HRTFs (Head Related Transfer Functions) to mimic the fact that in the real world (or with a stereo speaker system) the left ear (for example) also hears some of what the right ear hears, modified by the frequency absorption characteristics of the head itself. Binaural mixes tend to sound much more natural when listening on headphones, however the effect only works on headphones, not speakers/sound systems.

In your situation I would ask for just a standard stereo 2.0 mix. Ideally you'd mention that some people will listen on headphones and therefore expect a stereo mix which at least has enough fine detail not to sound too bad on headphones. Considering the amount you're offering though, it might be a bit much to specifically require/expect a finely detailed mix.

If you're thinking about moving into commercial/professional filmmaking it would definitely be worth your while to acquaint yourself with the different types of mixes/mix formats. Stereo LoRo or Lt/Rt, 5.1 theatrical or broadcast, different types of M&E mixes, 3.0, 7.1 and even maybe the new "immersive" formats.

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Old 05-04-2015, 04:45 PM   #17
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Careful, I think AudioPostExpert suffers from Savant Syndrome. ...
Binaural as a complete word refers to the use of two microphones, accounting for "head shadow" and "ear spacing" in creating interaural level differences. This allows for a more natural final stereo mix. If your sound designer captures on one microphone and merely uses the post production tools in his DAW, to create a stereo image, the binaural effect is non-existent.
Why? Why do you keep doing this? I'm a big boy and can ignore your childish insults but why give WRONG information to someone wanting to learn, especially in an area like audio which is enough of a minefield, even without idiots like you confusing the issue with INCORRECT information. Why do this, what have you got against the OP?

Sorry OP, looks like jrusso is going to derail yet another thread, apparently just out of spite for fellow indieTalk members and because he likes to troll about audio.

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Old 05-04-2015, 05:00 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by AudioPostExpert View Post
I'm a big boy and can ignore your childish insults but why give WRONG information to someone wanting to learn, especially in an area like audio which is enough of a minefield, even without idiots like you confusing the issue with INCORRECT information.
What specific part of what I said was incorrect?

Last edited by jrusso; 05-04-2015 at 05:02 PM.
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Old 05-05-2015, 05:40 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by jrusso View Post
What specific part of what I said was incorrect?
Pretty much all of it! You've presumably gone to wikipedia and looked up "Binaural Recording" and then incorrectly applied that definition to "Binaural" in general. Then, because you think that binaural only refers to binaural recording, you've simply made up the statement that a sound designer cannot create a "binaural effect" unless a binaural recording technique has been employed. And, even your definition of "binaural recording" is only partially correct! Why present "facts" which you know you've just made up? Furthermore, why do this when you know there is someone already involved in the thread who does know about audio? The only logical conclusion is that you're deliberately trying to mislead the OP, cause a dispute and/or derail the thread, the very definition of an internet Troll!

OP: It's maybe useful, as a filmmaker, to know in general terms what binaural is but you don't need to have a detailed understanding of it, the way I explained it previously is probably sufficient. However, to put the record straight, here is a slightly more detailed explanation: When listening to something on headphones we hear two ISOLATED audio channels (Left and Right), however when we listen to speakers (or to sound in real life), we don't. The audio output by the right speaker in a stereo system is not only heard by the right ear but also by the left ear, which is not the case when using headphones. In the case of say a sound which is panned to the right speaker, the sound waves hit your right ear AND travel through your head to your left ear. The sound hitting your left ear is different though, it is delayed, it arrives at your left ear a fraction of a second later than it arrives at your right ear. Additionally, it has a different level and frequency content, as your head absorbs some of the sound, a little like the difference between hearing a sound and hearing the same sound through a closed door. These timing, frequency and level differences are collectively called Head Related Transfer Functions (HRTFs). This may all sound like irrelevant scientific mumbo-jumbo but it turns out that our brains rely on these (sometimes tiny) differences to compute/create our perception of sound, even though we're not consciously aware of that computational process. In a similar way that we're not usually consciously aware that our brain is computing two separate (and slightly different) visual images into a single visual perception of the world we see. A binaural mix is one which tries to overcome the problem of the isolated audio inputs to each ear (in the case of headphones) by applying artificial/simulated HRTFs. There are 3 different (and exclusive) ways to do this: 1. To use a dummy head and two mics placed where the ears would be, to actually record a sound signal which includes simulated HRTFs (this method is not suited to the vast majority of filmmaking though), or 2. To use binaural panning tools during the mixing process, which add mathematically modelled HRTFs or 3. Processors are available which will take a completed (non-binaural) stereophonic mix and apply HRTFs to generate a binaural mix.

While all this might be mildly interesting (or thoroughly boring!), as I said, it's not really relevant to your current situation unless you plan on providing two different versions of your film and/or instructing your audience to only listen with headphones.

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Old 05-05-2015, 05:48 AM   #20
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Appreciate the advice, Mussonman is on the case and seems to be eager to take a good crack at it, I will begin learning more about Audio from your information of course.

Sound is my enemy so I must learn to make it more my friend
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Old 05-05-2015, 07:33 AM   #21
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Pretty much all of it!
Translation... nothing at all.

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Old 05-05-2015, 07:35 AM   #22
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Appreciate the advice, Mussonman is on the case and seems to be eager to take a good crack at it, I will begin learning more about Audio from your information of course.

Sound is my enemy so I must learn to make it more my friend
Good luck.

Last edited by jrusso; 05-05-2015 at 07:40 AM.
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Old 05-05-2015, 09:33 AM   #23
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Sound is my enemy so I must learn to make it more my friend
Wise move, film is after all an audio/visual medium. On the one hand, there are the technical aspects of sound, which if you get wrong will mean that your film can't be screened or broadcast. And on the other hand are the aesthetic aspects of sound, how it can be used to manipulate the audience; for example, into focusing on a particular element within the visuals, to elicit an emotional response, to create pace or provide a number of other powerful storytelling tools. Here's an introduction to the aesthetic aspects of sound which you might find helpful: "The Principles of Sound Design".
If you have any specific questions or things you can't understand about the technicalities, formats, etc., of sound, feel free to start a thread.

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