Will I benefit from filmschool?

[mussonman]

Judging from that trailer, you don't need film school.


(but take out the names from the trailer. people don't know those names, but the text makes it seem like famous peoples' names should be there)

[jmm124567]

The schools that have the top film programs in America are:
-University of Southern California(USC)
-New York University(NYU)
-University of California Los Angeles(UCLA)
-Columbia University
-Chapman University
-Wesleyan University

These are universities so it will take you 4 years to obtain a Bachelors degree. The cost of these universities is around $60,000 per year! They are very expensive and the cost at most universities has been rising each year so these are just going to get even more expensive each year. You also must have very good grades to get into these schools. You are going to need to have at least a 3.5 out of a 4.0 GPA if you want to have a chance at getting accepted to one of these schools. Your ACT or SAT scores are going to need to be very strong also. It is very difficult to get into these schools film program they are very competitive. At universities how the curriculum for a Bachelors degree works is during your first two years of school you take mainly general education courses like math, english, science, social studies and foreign language courses. Then during your final two years you will be taking mainly your major courses and your major would be Film Production.

I WOULD NOT GO TO A UNIVERSITY FILM PROGRAM!
During my senior year of high school I did a lot of research on film schools before I made my decision not to attend and I am very happy I did not go to film school. I would read what I have to say below before you make your decision. It's pretty helpful advice and could save you a lot of money! These film schools today are a rip off!

During my research I came across several people who all said the same thing. They said that back in the day film school was a great investment and had advantages BUT today film school is a horrible investment that does not have many advantages. You see back in the day during the 60's, 70's, 80's and some of the 90's before digital filmmaking came out making films was expensive. The equipment was expensive and hard to get your hands on. So back then for a lot of people the most affordable way to get your hands on equipment so you could practice filmmaking was to attend film school. And back then film school was a lot cheaper than it is today. It was a great investment because you were using equipment and making short films that cost a lot more than what you were paying to attend! Today though in this era it's the complete opposite! People are paying a whole lot more to attend film school than what it costs for equipment and to make films and that is why film school is a horrible investment now. Today you can get a new DSLR camera or prosumer camcorder for around $1,000-$5,000 that will give you a high quality picture. A lot of these film schools even the top schools like NYU and USC use prosumer camcorders that are around this price range and these cameras are beat up because they have been used by a lot of students. Most schools are not using Hollywood type camera's that cost tens of thousands of dollars. You could get Final Cut Pro X editing software for $300. Most of these film schools use Final Cut Pro X. For good sound equipment(mic, boom pole, recorder) that cost would be around lets say $1,000 maybe even cheaper. So you could get your basic equipment(camera, sound, editing software) you need to make films for $6,000 or less and your films will be the same quality of films you make at film school! Also for lighting you could just get work lights from Home Depot that will work fine and save you a lot of money. Today you can make a low budget feature length film for less than the cost of one semester at a university film program! Your making a low budget feature on a Red ONE camera for $7,000-$10,000! See that's a lot cheaper than the cost of one semester at a university film program! So basically film schools today are a horrible investment since you can make a good looking feature film for less than the cost of one semester of film school.

NETWORKING
You do not need to go to a top university film program to build connections! The truth is most film school grads do not end up with there dream job. Most film school students are unemployed after they graduate and end up going into a different industry. Some end up unemployed for years! There are film school grads who get a job in the industry but it's a low paying job that almost anyone with a high school diploma can get. With a high school diploma you could get a job as a production assistant and build great connections thru the job! You could attend the major film festivals and meet people. If you live in Los Angeles, California then you could just walk outside your house and make connections! A person who does not attend film school can easily make the same amount of connections that a person who attends a top film school makes! Also going to film school does not give you any advantages in the industry there's no educational requirements in the industry it's all about talent.

FILM SCHOOL & THE INDUSTRY ARE VERY RISKY!
The film industry is very competitive and very hard to get into! The odds are against you! Like I said already most film school grads do not end up with there dream job and end up going into a different industry. So let's say you go to film school and graduate with a Bachelors degree in Film Production. When you graduate you will have at least $100,000 in student loan debt. Now there's a very large chance you won't get your dream job or a job close to it. If that happens which there's a good chance it will your really going to struggle. Your going to have $100,000 or more in loan debt and a Bachelors degree in Film Production which does not have much value! The risks are way too big in this economy! BE SMART AND DO NOT GO TO A UNIVERSITY FILM PROGRAM! Go to a cheap 3 or 6 month film production program where you get a certificate when you complete it. THE REALLY SMART THING TO DO IS HAVE A BACKUP PLAN! I would go to college but not for film. Go to college and get a bachelors degree in something other than film and practice filmmaking on the side. This way if you don't get the job you want in the film industry you'll have a good backup plan.

HOW DO YOU GET INTO THE INDUSTRY?
There are many different paths into the industry but the main path for aspiring directors seems to be thru film festivals. What I did was I researched over a dozen Hollywood directors. I mainly read there bibliography to find out how they got into the industry and I noticed a pattern among most of these directors. What a lot of them did is they raised money and made a low budget indie feature film and submitted it to major film festivals like Sundance an so on and the film ended up getting accepted into a major film festival and the film did well and there talent got noticed and they started getting offers from Hollywood studios to direct films and calls from talent agents looking to represent them! There are Hollywood talent agents, studio executives, producers, directors and actors who attend these major film festivals there's some top people from the industry at these festivals. Film festivals are a great way for you to get discovered and make connections! Also there's distributors at most of these major film festivals who could want to buy your feature film and release it in theaters and you can make some decent money!

YOU DO NOT NEED TO ATTEND FILM SCHOOL TO LEARN HOW THE PRO'S DIRECT!
There's a lot of top Hollywood directors who did not attend film school. Here's a list of some Hollywood directors that did not attend film school:
Stanley Kubrick
Orson Welles
Alfred Hitchcock
John Ford
Woody Allen-Attended NYU film school but flunked out after his first semester!
Steven Spielberg-Applied 2 or 3 times to USC and was denied every time! Ended up going to Cal. State but dropped out after a couple years.
James Cameron
Quentin Tarantino
Christopher Nolan
Clint Eastwood
Paul Thomas Anderson
Wes Anderson
Sam Raimi
Kevin Smith
Jason Reitman

I have no clue why most people today go to film school and rack up $100,000+ in student loan debt when they could just get a full time job that pays $7 or $8 an hour after they graduate high school and within a year they could buy good basic equipment to make films and also buy books and instructional DVD's! Film school today is just not worth it!

[NickClapper]

Judging by the trailer to your film, you'll find film school quite frustrating, given that most of your classmates will be fairly rich kids who've enjoyed watching a few films but have no practical experience (massive generalisation, I know).

This forum tends to sway towards the 'no film school' line of advice and I think that's probably right. But because you're in Europe, university is a hell of a lot cheaper and you really ought to do it. It doesn't matter whether you're studying film or anything else, you'll have a great time and you'll be employable afterwards. Win win!

[jax_rox]

I disagree with all who say resoundingly and vehemently that you should 'DEFINITELY NOT go to film school'. Usually these people have not been to film school themselves, and are sometimes quite jaded by the industry as a whole.

Having been to film school, both as a degree program and also the summer program at USC a while ago, I can tell you that it 100% worth it. The contacts you make, and the opportunities you get are second to none. There are a whole lot of BS classes, but the ones that count and matter are the ones you get the most out of.

You definitely don't have to go to film school, but I think it can be very advantageous.

Originally Posted by jmm124567

The schools that have the top film programs in America are:

I'd also add AFI

Today you can get a new DSLR camera or prosumer camcorder for around $1,000-$5,000 that will give you a high quality picture.

What's the point if you don't know how to use it?

A lot of these film schools even the top schools like NYU and USC use prosumer camcorders that are around this price range and these cameras are beat up because they have been used by a lot of students.

Perhaps in first year, but I've seen a whole bunch of USC grad stuff shot on 35mm, Red Epic, Red Scarlet etc. I know USC own a whole bunch of F3s, and are looking into purchasing some Red Epics. They also have some S16mm cameras, though film is being phased out there.

You could get Final Cut Pro X editing software for $300.

And learn to use software that will do you no use in the industry as professionals as a whole moved off it to Adobe or Avid.

Most of these film schools use Final Cut Pro X.

No. USC for one uses full copies of Avid Media Composer.

Today you can make a low budget feature length film for less than the cost of one semester at a university film program! Your making a low budget feature on a Red ONE camera for $7,000-$10,000!

Or you could make a whole lot of short films at film school with real cameras, real lighting, real sound equipment, real editing equipment, and real crew, and end up with a finished product that's better than anything you could produce as a 'low budget feature' from a bunch of kids, or alternately you can be the DP yourself, rather than having to hire someone in because you have no idea how to make an image look good.

The truth is most film school grads do not end up with there dream job. Most film school students are unemployed after they graduate

You mean most people in general, and it does not matter whether they went to college or not.

Some end up unemployed for years!

As do many high school grads

With a high school diploma you could get a job as a production assistant and build great connections thru the job!

Just as you could out of film school, and in fact possibly while you're still in film school. Except then you'd have connection with your teachers, lecturers, industry professionals and your fellow classmates. I constantly get calls from my old classmates and even my old professors asking me to work on this or that project that they're shooting or directing

There's a lot of top Hollywood directors who did not attend film school. Here's a list of some Hollywood directors that did not attend film school:

And here are a list of noteable Hollywood professionals who did attend film school, either in an undergraduate or postgraduate type course:
Judd Apatow
Ron Howard
Doug Liman
George Lucas
Bryan Singer
Lee Unkrich
Robert Zemeckis
Darren Aronofsky
David Lynch
Terrence Malick
Francis Ford Coppola
Alexander Payne
Jeff Cronenweth
William Fraker
Conrad Hall
Janusz Kaminski
Wally Pfister
Gore Verbinski

etc etc etc.

Now film school is definitely not a must and there are those in the industry from both sides of the coin, but IMO, I think it can definitely be worth it.
In a way, film school taught me to be an industry professional before I stepped into the real industry, and it allowed me to figure out where my interests lay so that I could then realise I wanted to be a Cinematographer, make some nice films in film school and then push me out into the industry to work my way up via ACing. If I'd just gone and PA'd on things, I fear I'd still be PAing now, or worse: ADing :| (kudos to all you ADs out there )

There are arguments for both sides of the coin, but film school does more for you than just have you make a film. Which is why I disagree with the arguments that say 'but just make your own on a DSLR and it'll be just like film school but better!' (paraphrasing a little ) because that's completely untrue.

[prorevolution]

I setup an account just to weigh in on this debate. What I'd say is never do anything from a place of fear, follow your heart. With that out of the way, this industry is built on "your angle & your story". If you want to be an indie maverick, never go to film school and never compromise.

You've got heaps of talent, if I was your manager. I'd say; instead of spending any money on film school hire a PUBLICIST. A good one. And take the world by storm as the "16 year prodigy" who made a kickarse feature film on 10k. Be the emblem for the DIY Generation. You represent an entire sect of people who can and have learned almost everything they know themselves and online and came through (with what looks like) a really decent product.

That's how you get attention, that's how you make it, "by working an angle that's true & unique to you". There's nothing interesting about the kid that went to film school and bounced around in a few below the line jobs, then finally got his break. Pretty original, huh? People don't know how to find their story and sell them self. That's why they fail to take off.

Cut to the core of this thing and go big, if you trigger a few film festivals, grab a shit hot publicist and you'll be well on your way before you even finish high school. And you'll probably get money to make your next movie if you get even a tiny bit of media attention.

Just so you know, I dropped out of film school and have been leveraging the "Australian kid who went to American film school, then dropped out to come home and make stories for and in his own country". And while I've only done a couple of shorts, that original angle was highly effective for news outlets in Australia and I've never failed to get coverage when I've produced good work.

If you wanna make it, brand yourself, find who you are and ride the wave, keep it consistent until you need to reinvent yourself. And also don't be afraid to try anything new. If you told me 6 months ago that I'd make a 4 minute dance film shot in the Outback that people would rant/rave about, I would of laughed at you, but I did it and I'm better for it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JopaAZgftCA

Good luck sir, I'm rooting for you!

[Phil_UK]

I said no to any type of school at the moment and it's going really well! We'll see if I still have this opinion in 1 or 2 years, but at the moment, I can't complain at all. Got a few jobs that involve travelling, and a pretty high calibre documentary in germany this september!

[jmm124567]

Originally Posted by NickClapper

Judging by the trailer to your film, you'll find film school quite frustrating, given that most of your classmates will be fairly rich kids who've enjoyed watching a few films but have no practical experience (massive generalisation, I know).

This forum tends to sway towards the 'no film school' line of advice and I think that's probably right. But because you're in Europe, university is a hell of a lot cheaper and you really ought to do it. It doesn't matter whether you're studying film or anything else, you'll have a great time and you'll be employable afterwards. Win win!

Oh he's in Europe?? I don't know what the cost of school is out there and how well there economy is but in America it's horrible! Based on the skills the OP has he doesn't need film school!

[mussonman]

Originally Posted by jmm124567

I don't know what the cost of school is out there and how well there economy is but in America it's horrible!

It's more than horrible. It's enraging... it's infuriating... it's GAY!!!!

[jmm124567]

Originally Posted by jax_rox

I disagree with all who say resoundingly and vehemently that you should 'DEFINITELY NOT go to film school'. Usually these people have not been to film school themselves, and are sometimes quite jaded by the industry as a whole.

Actually there's a lot of people who went to film school but regret it and don't think they should have went. There's a lot of people who dropped out of film school because they did not like it.

Originally Posted by jmm124567

Today you can get a new DSLR camera or prosumer camcorder for around $1,000-$5,000 that will give you a high quality picture.

Originally Posted by jax_rox

What's the point if you don't know how to use it?

What do you mean what's the point if you don't know how to use it? A camcorder is pretty easy to use! There's the owners manual which comes with the camera. There's books and instructional DVD's you can buy for cheap that teach you about camera operations, the lens types and so on. You can easily browse the internet and learn. You learn though making films. Picking up a camera and going out and shooting something is how you learn!

Originally Posted by jmm124567

A lot of these film schools even the top schools like NYU and USC use prosumer camcorders that are around this price range and these cameras are beat up because they have been used by a lot of students.

Originally Posted by jax_rox

Perhaps in first year, but I've seen a whole bunch of USC grad stuff shot on 35mm, Red Epic, Red Scarlet etc. I know USC own a whole bunch of F3s, and are looking into purchasing some Red Epics. They also have some S16mm cameras, though film is being phased out there.

These student films you have seen that were shot on 35mm, Red Epic and Red Scarlett are you sure the student didn't get the camera loaned to them from someone or possibly rented the camera from a equipment rental store?

I've talked to people who went to USC over the last few years and they said the cameras used are prosumer cameras that are affordable.

IF YOU GO ON USC'S FILM SCHOOL WEBSITE AND LOOK AT THE PICTURES YOU WILL SEE THAT STUDENTS ARE USING PROSUMER CAMCORDERS! WATCH THE VIDEOS ON THE WEBSITE THE STUDENTS ARE USING PROSUMER CAMCORDERS IN THE VIDEOS!

On USC School of Cinematic Arts webpage they have a list of equipment that's available for student check out. Here's a list of the cameras they have:

(2) Sony F900H/3 (HD Cameras)
(17) Sony DSR-PD170 DVCAM camcorders
(50) Sony DSR-PD150 DVCam camcorders
(100) Sony DSR-PD100 DVCam camcorders
(30) Sony DSR-PDX10 DVCam camcorders
(11) Sony TRV-900 DV camcorders
(9) Sony VX-1000 DV camcorders
(8) Sony DSR-500 DVCam cameras
(5) Sony Betacam BVW-D600 cameras

The two Sony F900H and F3's at the top of the list are expensive cameras. All the other models are affordable prosumer cameras and I think there all really old cameras because I looked up the cameras on the internet and I could not find any that were selling for brand new I could only find them used which most likely means they have been discontinued, there not in production anymore so there pretty old cameras.

Originally Posted by jmm124567

You could get Final Cut Pro X editing software for $300.

Originally Posted by jax_rox

And learn to use software that will do you no use in the industry as professionals as a whole moved off it to Adobe or Avid.

The OP wants to be a director not an editor! If he wants he can buy Adobe Premiere editing software for $1,000. He can buy Avid Media Composer for $2,500! It's better than paying $60,000 a year to go to film school to use it! I'm simply telling him Final Cut Pro would be very good to make indie films that would later be submitted to major film festivals to show your talent and hopefully get noticed and break into the industry!

Originally Posted by jmm124567

Most of these film schools use Final Cut Pro X.

Originally Posted by jax_rox

No. USC for one uses full copies of Avid Media Composer.

I could go on Avid's website and buy Avid Media Composer for $2,500 instead of paying $60,000 a year to go to a film school to use it! Now your probably going to say "but if you don't go to film school you won't learn how to use it!" Well there's books and instructional DVD's that teach you how to use Avid!

James Cameron never went to film school he taught himself and he's pretty awesome. He has a lot of technical skills for someone who did not go to film school!

Originally Posted by jmm124567

Today you can make a low budget feature length film for less than the cost of one semester at a university film program! Your making a low budget feature on a Red ONE camera for $7,000-$10,000

Originally Posted by jax_rox

Or you could make a whole lot of short films at film school with real cameras, real lighting, real sound equipment, real editing equipment, and real crew, and end up with a finished product that's better than anything you could produce as a 'low budget feature' from a bunch of kids, or alternately you can be the DP yourself, rather than having to hire someone in because you have no idea how to make an image look good.

SHUT THE HECK UP NOW! I've seen a lot of short films made by USC film students and also NYU and UCLA film students and to tell you the truth I've seen tons of short films made for really cheap by people who did not go to film school that looked as good as these film school shorts some even better! I've seen low budget indie features made for less than the cost of a semester of film school that look as good as a film school short!

I graduated high school last June and decided to skip film school. Immediately after I graduated I got a full time job working for a landscaping company. I make $8 an hour and work 40 hours a week. When I graduated high school a little over a year ago I had really no money saved up and now I have $12,000 saved! I'm about to buy the basic equipment I need to make films. I'll go buy Avid Media Composer for $2,500 off Avid's website. SO IS THIS NOT REAL EDITING EQUIPMENT? I'll buy a Lowell lighting kit for $1,500 like what's used at USC. SO IS THIS NOT REAL LIGHTING EQUIPMENT? For $2,000 I'll get a high quality boom mic and recorder. IS THIS NOT REAL SOUND EQUIPMENT? I'll spend up to $5,000 on a prosumer camcorder and the camera will be the same quality of prosumer camcorders available for check out to students at these top film schools! NOT REAL EQUIPMENT? HAHA I'll make short films that are the same quality of the short films being made at USC and NYU except I'm making mine for a lot cheaper! These students are spending $60,000 a year when I spent around $10,000 for the basic equipment I need and this equipment I'll have will be the same quality of equipment being used at these top film schools!

Christopher Nolan didn't go to film school. His first feature film was an indie called Following. He made it for $6,000 and it did well at film festivals and then an independent producer financed Nolan's next film called Memento which did really well and he went to Hollywood!

Robert Rodriguez barely went to film school he dropped out and at 23 years old he made his first feature for $7,000 which was an indie called El Mariachi and it did well at film festivals got his talent noticed and he went to Hollywood!

Kevin Smith dropped out of Vancouver Film School after spending a very short time there. At 23 years old he made his first feature for $25,000 that was an indie called Clerks and it did well at film festivals got him noticed and he went to Hollywood!

Oren Peli did not go to film school and he made Paranormal Activity for $15,000 and it did very well at film festivals and he went to Hollywood!

So go talk some more smack about low budget films and no real equipment!

Originally Posted by jmm124567

The truth is most film school grads do not end up with there dream job. Most film school students are unemployed after they graduate

Originally Posted by jax_rox

You mean most people in general, and it does not matter whether they went to college or not.

Well what I'm trying to say is that the film industry is risky! Going to film school is a big risk because there's a good chance you won't get into the film industry at a above the line job or a good paying below the line job. So what happens when you end up not getting in the industry and have $100,000 or more in student loan debt and a Bachelor's degree in film production which does not have much value? Your really going to struggle a lot!

The smart thing people should be doing is getting a Bachelors degree in a real major and do filmmaking on the side and then if they don't get a good job in the film industry then they have a good backup they at least will have a degree in something that can actually take them some place!

Originally Posted by jmm124567

Some end up unemployed for years!

Originally Posted by jax_rox

As do many high school grads

Your missing the point! Would you rather be an unemployed filmmaker with $100,000 or more in student loan debt or be an unemployed filmmaker with no student loan debt? I don't know about you but I rather be an unemployed filmmaker with no student loan debt!

Originally Posted by jmm124567

With a high school diploma you could get a job as a production assistant and build great connections thru the job!

Originally Posted by jax_rox

Just as you could out of film school, and in fact possibly while you're still in film school. Except then you'd have connection with your teachers, lecturers, industry professionals and your fellow classmates. I constantly get calls from my old classmates and even my old professors asking me to work on this or that project that they're shooting or directing

Again your missing the point! The point is you can get a job as a Production Assistant and other jobs in the industry without going to film school and having $100,000 or more in student loan debt! I rather be a PA who did not go to film school and has no debt than be a PA who went to film school and has $100,000 or more in loan debt! The main point is you can get a low paying entry level job in the industry that will help you build connections without having to go to film school and build up a lot of student loan debt!

Originally Posted by jmm124567

There's a lot of top Hollywood directors who did not attend film school

Originally Posted by jax_rox

And here are a list of noteable Hollywood professionals who did attend film school, either in an undergraduate or postgraduate type course:
Judd Apatow
Ron Howard
Doug Liman
George Lucas
Bryan Singer
Lee Unkrich
Robert Zemeckis
Darren Aronofsky
David Lynch
Terrence Malick
Francis Ford Coppola
Alexander Payne
Jeff Cronenweth
William Fraker
Conrad Hall
Janusz Kaminski
Wally Pfister
Gore Verbinski

etc etc etc.

Well the BEST directors of all time did not attend film school like Stanley Kubrick, Orson Welles, Alfred Hitchcock, John Ford! Out of the top 10 directors of all time less than half went to film school.

Originally Posted by jax_rox

There are arguments for both sides of the coin, but film school does more for you than just have you make a film. Which is why I disagree with the arguments that say 'but just make your own on a DSLR and it'll be just like film school but better!' (paraphrasing a little ) because that's completely untrue.

For what film school does for $60,000 a year I'll definitely pass!

[mussonman]

You learn through the experience of actually making a movie. Film school provides you the same basic tips and "how to's" that you can find online for free.

[jax_rox]

Originally Posted by jmm124567

Actually there's a lot of people who went to film school but regret it and don't think they should have went. There's a lot of people who dropped out of film school because they did not like it.

Some, yes. But it's not too difficult to get out of it what you need to get out of it. Recommending someone 'definitely' do one thing or another is not good, as everyone is different. A lot of people benefit from film school. A lot of people don't. That doesn't make it an invalid option, and there are plenty of working industry professionals who will tell you that they benefitted from it. Hell, even myself - if I hadn't gone to film school I'd probably be working a full or part time job for low pay to try and save up for equipment and then I'd buy equipment and try and make short films on the weekends when I have time. Instead, I have a really good Cinematography reel, and am employed regularly as both Cinematographer and Camera Assistant (and recently Gaffing) on all sorts of shoot from shorts to features to corporates.

That's not to say you can't do that without film school, but personally I don't know that I really could've. And that's the truth - I don't know. I don't think I could've, but who knows. I certainly feel it would've taken longer for me to get to the poitn I am now.

These student films you have seen that were shot on 35mm, Red Epic and Red Scarlett are you sure the student didn't get the camera loaned to them from someone or possibly rented the camera from a equipment rental store?

USC (afaik) will fund part of your graduate film, as will some other film schools around the world.

I've talked to people who went to USC over the last few years and they said the cameras used are prosumer cameras that are affordable.

The list is old. I was at USC only a few weeks ago, and saw the F3s they had, saw the Sony EX1s they had, and saw the ads for the old PD150s they were selling off for $200. From what I heard talking to some of the staff, they're looking at purchasing Red Epic packages after the Summer School used rented packages. Not sure if your idea of affordable is an F3 or F900, but anyway. They also have Arri S's, , SR2s, Aaton LTRs and quite a lot of other camera equipment, I couldn't tell you the extent of it tbh. They also have a full range of other lighting equipment etc. etc. etc.
My film school now has an Alexa, and is looking at buying a second, as well as industry-standard broadcast cams, SR3s, XTRs etc. Others have Red Epics and Scarlets, etc. etc.

James Cameron never went to film school he taught himself and he's pretty awesome. He has a lot of technical skills for someone who did not go to film school!

Never said you must go to film school, in fact I said there are many who do and many who don't. One shouldn't discount it just because others don't like it.

I've seen a lot of short films made by USC film students and also NYU and UCLA film students and to tell you the truth I've seen tons of short films made for really cheap by people who did not go to film school that looked as good as these film school shorts some even better! I've seen low budget indie features made for less than the cost of a semester of film school that look as good as a film school short!

And I've seen indie features made more more than the cost of an entire film school education that look like sh*t, and heard reports from the set that it was a nightmare to work on because the Director had no concept on how a real film shoot should run. I've seen student films that look amazing and student films that look terrible. I've seen low budgets that look amazing and I've seen the crap that goes on YouTube. So what? I never said you have to go to film school to do anything. For some people it's great.

I graduated high school last June and decided to... [snip] I spent around $10,000 for the basic equipment I need and this equipment I'll have will be the same quality of equipment being used at these top film schools!

That's great. I'm happy for you, I'm glad you're doing what you want with your life. Does that mean that's what everyone will/should do? No, of course not. Not to mention that for $10,000 you've got equipment. Now what about locations, Set Dressings and everything else that goes into a film. Here's one thing that you don't seem to understand: film school is not just about making a film. You do make a lot of films and you crew on a lot of films. But it's about the contacts you make, the people you meet, the attitude it breeds in you, the way of working, and everything else. And yes, some people won't make the contacts and get the attitude etc. and will just coast through and say 'why did I do that?' and others will make the most of it. No one way is the right way, but you shouldn't discount a way into the industry simply because you don't like it for yourself.

Well what I'm trying to say is that the film industry is risky! Going to film school is a big risk because there's a good chance you won't get into the film industry at a above the line job or a good paying below the line job. So what happens when you end up not getting in the industry and have $100,000 or more in student loan debt and a Bachelor's degree in film production which does not have much value? Your really going to struggle a lot!

Yeah, it is risky. What happens when you get a call for your big break on a Hollywood set as an unpaid Production Intern and you can't take it because you have a paying full time job? Very few people make it to high paying below-the-line jobs and even less make it to above the lilne at all. Does that mean we shouldn't do it? Of course not. I make a comfortable living doing what I do, and I work doing what I want to do for the rest of my life. For me, this is a career. For yourself, at the moment it is a hobby you do in your spare time (That's not to take away from it and the passion you have for it, merely to say that it is not the source of your income). That's not to say that you can't or won't eventually make it into your career, but for me personally the reason this is my career now and not simply my hobby is because I went to film school.

The smart thing people should be doing is getting a Bachelors degree in a real major and do filmmaking on the side and then if they don't get a good job in the film industry then they have a good backup they at least will have a degree in something that can actually take them some place!

IMO, having a backup is pointless. Why waste your time on a three year degree doing something you don't really like that much just as a 'backup'? To succeed at film, it has to be the only thing you could possibly be doing with your life. You need to have that burning passion, and often you need to have the availability to take that amazing chance job, otherwise you'll do something as a 'backup' and end up just having film as your personal hobby because you become too comfortable with the money.
I'm not saying everyone is like this but I've seen it happen a lot.

Your missing the point! Would you rather be an unemployed filmmaker with $100,000 or more in student loan debt or be an unemployed filmmaker with no student loan debt? I don't know about you but I rather be an unemployed filmmaker with no student loan debt!

I'd rather be an employed filmmaker
I'd also rather be a crew member/filmmaker who works for low pay, than someone who works full time and does film on the side, but that's just me I'd rather live hand to mouth and work on film sets, than live comfortably and never set foot on a real set again.

Well the BEST directors of all time did not attend film school like Stanley Kubrick, Orson Welles, Alfred Hitchcock, John Ford! Out of the top 10 directors of all time less than half went to film school.

Apart from the fact that your idea of best, whilst admirable and they are great Directors, is very very personal, you're talking generally about a time when film school either wasn't around/didn't exist, or wasn't in the proliferation it is now.

Originally Posted by mussonman

You learn through the experience of actually making a movie. Film school provides you the same basic tips and "how to's" that you can find online for free.

This is also untrue.


Just to clarify, when I was about to graduate high school, I had the exact same thoughts about whether it was worth it or not. I didn't even go to the very best film school in my area, but I went to a damn good one, and I'm glad I did.
It's not for everyone, but there's certainly a hell of a lot of people who benefit and have benefitted from it.

[NickClapper]

I think it's really good that Jax is providing such a detailed counter argument.

Given that this is an indie film forum, it's no surprise that most people here are indie filmmakers who either do it as a hobby or who are scraping together big dreams out of nothing. That's fine but I think it gives the impression that that's what the industry is looking for. The big jobs (and even the little ones now) in Hollywood, and in any other major productions, will want you to either have film school under your belt, or have interned or apprenticed with notable people. It's all about contacts and skills- can you really get both of these without film school? Professional, union filmmaking is a very different kettle of fish to the indie filmmaking that most of us are engaged in.

Filmmaking is a skilled profession. We take it for granted that a lawyer should have a law degree, that an accountant ought to have some sort of accountancy qualification, that a journalist ought to have an English BA...etc. Why should film be treated any differently?

[DesperadoMan17]

I stoped reading this debate after the first page. But dude I am in the same situation. I dont have a amazing movie like that but I dont know if I should go to film school or not. But seriously that trailer is AMAZING!!!

[mussonman]

Originally Posted by NickClapper

Filmmaking is a skilled profession. We take it for granted that a lawyer should have a law degree, that an accountant ought to have some sort of accountancy qualification, that a journalist ought to have an English BA...etc. Why should film be treated any differently?

Because lawyers do not deal in creativity. One does not need film school, it can only benefit a little, the biggest benefit being introduced to others who share your dreams and aspirations, that are likely on the same level as you.

[Lucky Hardwood]

Originally Posted by mussonman

Because lawyers do not deal in creativity. One does not need film school, it can only benefit a little, the biggest benefit being introduced to others who share your dreams and aspirations, that are likely on the same level as you.

For some people, that is a HUGE benefit.