A cold "hair backlight".

[wheatgrinder]

or is it more like this..

[Ernest Worthing]

You want something like a hair light that matches the orange city street scene, correct?

If so, for doing it in camera, set up your camera and adjust your WB till the image looks warm enough for your taste. Set up a light above and behind or just behind or wherever you like to get the kind of look you want. You can look into different filters and/or different strength CTO gels to match that light to your street lights.

Do the same for your key and fill and whatever other lights you have in your setup.

[FernandoAndre]

Another example is in the film "The lives of others", at 39 minutes of this link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ts_9Mfc5ag

As you can see, there is a backlight outlining the woman. And this
light comes from above. Thats what I need, but stronger and with this warm color.

Thank you Ernest, but I'm a really beginner on lighting. I don't know what light I have to buy for this. Can you suggest something?


And wheatgrinder, almost like this second image you posted, but in another position to simulate the public lamps.

[wheatgrinder]

Ah, now we can analyze what your really trying to do.
Here is a low quality screen cap from that movie at about 39:00 ...




Im going to guess that this scene was lit white balance set to tungsten. The street lights and the head lights of the car (see a few seconds before the frame above) are close to pure white.

The light coming from camera right is probably a big tungsten light with an orange filter. Its quite a wide spread as the spill hits across the road to the building and lights up the white stripe.. In this Frame you actually SEE another light source (the blue on the top) probably unnoticed during shooting as this is what happens with real world sources in the real world. mixed lighting temps come out varying degrees of orange and blue..

In this next frame we can see more of whats going on screen right (reflections in the car)

[FernandoAndre]

Originally Posted by wheatgrinder

The light coming from camera right is probably a big tungsten light with an orange filter. [/IMG]

Why this orange filter was being used? If the WB was set to make the lights look like a white source, why they need to reduce the color temperature?

And do you think so I need a tungsten source in my film?
Thank you

[Gonzo_Entertainment]

I generally white balance to tungsten at night. As was noted that will make car headlights and SOME street lights pure white. Other street lights (sodium I think) appear very orange (as they also do to the eye). That would be the reason to orange gel I suppose to motivate the light as a warm sodium street light.

[wheatgrinder]

FernandoAndre,
This is one of those things that is best discovered with your own eyes. I talked about it and talked about it on this forum, but it wasn't until I finally went though the trouble of doing my own White Balance testing with my OWN camera that I was able to "internalize it" enough to feel comfortable with the topic.

Do you need a tungsten light? Who can know? We can not know what you need for lighting a REAL world shot in a hypothetical discussion... Chances are you will HAVE a tungsten light as they are the most light for the money and are readily available. You may need to use filters to get the desired LOOK in camera.


If you can go out tonight to the actual location your shooting, with your camera, White Balance set to Tungsten and post some screen caps here, we can give more specific advice.

[FernandoAndre]

Ok guys, thanks for the help. I will provide more specific footages from the actual location, framing what exactly will happen on the scene, and come back.

[wheatgrinder]

dont get me wrong, I for one can go on an on about something I don't know that much about.. So feel free to keep up the chat!

[WalterB]

Originally Posted by wheatgrinder

Easy answer on the first one..

Look at something BLUE it makes you feel cool. Look at something orange it makes you feel warm.. the SCIENCE came after!
.....

Indeed: a winter morning in Norway looks blue and cold.
A sunny afternoon in the South of France looks 'yellow' and warm.

If I'm remembering it correctly the science part is that's it's the color of iron at those temperatures.

[FernandoAndre]

But I remember my DP teacher saying "the hot and cold logic for light is the opposite of what you know about colors in art direction".

Then I read on wikipedia exactly this: For colors based on black body theory, blue occurs at higher temperatures, while red occurs at lower, cooler, temperatures. This is the opposite of the cultural associations attributed to colors, in which "red" is "hot", and "blue" is "cold".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_temperature

That's why I wrote "cold backlight" on the title.

[jax_rox]

What I think you're confusing here is the science, and the emotion.

We associate Blue shades as 'cool' colours, and orange/red shades as 'warm' colours. That's the emotion of it, and it's generally accepted. If you were describing the look you wanted for a scene, for example, you would use warm to describe oranges, yellows, reds etc. and cool to describe blues, greens etc.

The science of colour temperature comes from the way heat reacts. Colour temperature came about by heating an object and recording the temperatures at which it changed colour. Think of your stove, for example - the blue flame on your stove is indeed hotter than the yellow flame of a fire.
Therefore, the 'hotter' colour temperature is actually bluer.

However, when we discuss colour temperature, we'll usually use 'cooler' to describe higher numbers, and 'warmer' to describe lower numbers simply because it correlates with the colour we're seeing, even though scientifically the higher numbers are in fact hotter.

A 'cold hair backlight' would normally be understood as a bluer backlight, whereas a warm backlight would be understood as orange. This is generally accepted, and you should get into the habit of describing colours the standard way as it will go a long way when you ask a Production Designer to use warm colours and they bring you reds and yellows (rather than the blue you were expecting).

You shouldn't worry too much about the science, other than the fact that 'cooler' (bluer) colours have a higher colour temperature, and 'warmer' (orange-er) colours have a lower colour temperature.

[FernandoAndre]

Right, jax.

I talked with a photographer about the temperature of this lights from our city and he told me I need lights from 2.300K to 2.700K to match a good additive effect.
Any tips about what equipment I can use with this color temperature?

[jax_rox]

You could gel any Tungsten source to get warmer tones; A CTO of varying strength or Straw of varying strength would give interesting results.

[wheatgrinder]

Like I said tungsten light. (2300K, to 2700K is smack dab in the middle of tungsten range) If the camera had been white balanced to tungsten, then lights would look WHITE, however if the camera was set to white balance of DAYLIGHT, then the tungsten light would look golden to the sensor. Test this on your camera as soon as you can.