Band permits use of their songs, what contract do I need? - IndieTalk

MaximusXXX · 06-13-2012, 04:31 PM

So I have friends who formed a band years ago, they released an album under Universal four years ago.

Now, they don't know the legal jargon, so what documents do I need them to sign so I can use their songs in my film?

DeJager · 06-13-2012, 07:11 PM

Chances are that Universal still owns the rights to the songs even though the band might not be under that label anymore. I believe you'll need 2 licenses (a sync license and a master license).

MaximusXXX · 06-14-2012, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeJager

Chances are that Universal still owns the rights to the songs even though the band might not be under that label anymore. I believe you'll need 2 licenses (a sync license and a master license).

Will I still need to pay for the use?

I talked to them and they said they were happy to have their songs used for free in my film. So if I go to Universal and have their signatures, will they still charge me an obscene amount?

I'd be willing to pay, like $75, but this is suppose to be a favor...so to speak from them.

PaulGriffith · 06-14-2012, 12:30 PM

If it's a song recorded under a record deal, then the recording of the song most likely doesn't belong t the band. If the band wrote the song, they own the rights to the music but not what the studio paid to record.

If that's the case, and you were willing to do that, you could ask the band to record it again outside of Universal and use that copy if they give you rights to it.

At least I'm 90% sure that's true haha.

MaximusXXX · 06-14-2012, 02:45 PM

Well looks like I'm gonna have to tell Universal that I'm giving the band free advertising and they're on board with my film and therefore I shouldn't pay anything. Under these circumstances, Universal has only to gain by letting me use the recorded songs. Either they get nothing or free advertising.

MetalRenard · 06-14-2012, 02:49 PM

There are 6 rights that belong to anyone who makes a song including rights to the actual recording, the public performance and the composition. Depending on the deal made between the band and Universal, any number of those are now owned by Universal.

You will need to talk to Universal if you want to use the song, even if your friends wrote the song since you don't know the full extent of the contract they signed and I doubt even the band knows the full reach of the contract, so play it safe.

FrankLad · 06-14-2012, 02:51 PM

You may wanna try an ASCAP/BMI search to get the publisher contact info.

PaulGriffith · 06-14-2012, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaximusXXX

Well looks like I'm gonna have to tell Universal that I'm giving the band free advertising and they're on board with my film and therefore I shouldn't pay anything. Under these circumstances, Universal has only to gain by letting me use the recorded songs. Either they get nothing or free advertising.

That's like you driving my Mustang because Henry Ford said it's cool. Intellectual property is confusing, but there's some pretty clear cut laws out there about who owns what and how they need to be paid. Being indie, there's a pretty fair chance that if you use it without anyone raising a fuss or getting a cease and desist if Uni or someone found out, but if the band doesn't own the rights they can't give something away. Once a label bought it (wether or not it was a fair deal) it's theirs. I'll pretty much guarantee you that if you even manage to find the right person at Universal to talk to, there's no way you'll sell them on free advertising. They'll be telling you "either you pay $X or you can't use the music."

Thems-the-breaks, that's why there's tons of royalty free stock out there for really affordable prices, composers that will create you a custom score for your project and often agree to let indies have all the rights they'll ever need for it, and affordable licensing places like themusicbed.com who've struck deals with artists and publishers to make work available for small scale for cheap.

Boxt · 06-19-2012, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulGriffith

If it's a song recorded under a record deal, then the recording of the song most likely doesn't belong t the band. If the band wrote the song, they own the rights to the music but not what the studio paid to record.

If that's the case, and you were willing to do that, you could ask the band to record it again outside of Universal and use that copy if they give you rights to it.

At least I'm 90% sure that's true haha.

Paul is right. Most likely Universal hold the recording rights, it is unlikely their rights have expired as you said it was only our years ago. They will usually licence the publishing rights separately although lots of people publish under their own company. Unfortunately, bands are notorious for signing away everything but the kitchen sink in their first deal. They may not have the right to re-record or perform. The band should be able to tell you. You should ask to see the contract, as that is the only way you can be sure. If there is a difference of understanding between what is in the contract and what they interpret, then you will be liable for an misuse that arises out I the misunderstanding.
If the band was not successful, then you might be able to get them to waive fees. How that would work is that the fee you would have had to pay, becomes an investment in the film and when it us recouped with some profit margin on top, you can opt in to some profit participation from the soundtrack or single re-release. You will need two things to do this. First thing is a bit of humility. Don't go in telling them what they should be doing. Tell them your situation and say what you want. Ask if they can waive fees, and negotiate with respect. They have the upper hand so don't be bullish. Second thing is a damn good lawyer. The sync and master contracts are complex and have to take into consideration different IP laws around the world. Do not buy an online contract for this, they are useless. the contract for waiving the fees will have to be wird perfect to avoid you getting stung.

MaximusXXX · 10-02-2012, 12:07 AM

The band, pardon my language, doesn't seem to know anything about their contract.

I checked with Universal and it seems they either don't know or their contract expired.

Put frankly, Universal doesn't care because they know it's not a valuable band at the moment.

I mean, let's be frank, if you're a big company and someone comes to you asking to use music from a band you don't even know you own in an indy film with little budget. Are you going to waste ten minutes looking up anything?

I've obviously proceeded past this point and begun writing my own music and buying some cheap royalty free songs.

bellabell · 10-02-2012, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaximusXXX

The band, pardon my language, doesn't seem to know anything about their contract.

I checked with Universal and it seems they either don't know or their contract expired.

Put frankly, Universal doesn't care because they know it's not a valuable band at the moment.

I mean, let's be frank, if you're a big company and someone comes to you asking to use music from a band you don't even know you own in an indy film with little budget. Are you going to waste ten minutes looking up anything?

I've obviously proceeded past this point and begun writing my own music and buying some cheap royalty free songs.

Record labels and publishers are two different things. Many time record labels are their own publishers but in some cases publishing rights are sold (The Beatles anyone?)

A record label contract may expire, but don't assume the publishing has. They are NOT generous in one bit. Don't risk it. Unfortunately their customer service is worse than the IRS. They take their sweet time and know that you need them more than they need you.

Can anyone tell I have a chip on my shoulder? Like some one else mentioned, use BMI or ASCAP to find the publisher and then bother them to no end.

Ziggy · 10-02-2012, 03:22 PM

I used a song by Said The Whale (friends of the production) and I we still paid. I know a guy who has directed movies and his band is under a prominent indie label and I swear, he couldn't afford to use his bands own damn song in his last feature.
That exposure thought, every filmmaker has had it... and like the saying goes... "last time I tried to pay my mortgage with "exposure" I got arrested."

Also- seriously don't use anything until you have it all locked up. If you get a little attention with the film, despite Universal not caring now, they sure will care if you are trying to sell a dvd or get a Netflix deal (and so will Netflix).

DeJager · 06-14-2012, 10:25 PM

Paul - even though the band may have wrote the song(s) they may not have the rights to it. If they wrote the songs WHILE under contract with Universal then Universal owns the song. This, of course, depends on the contract

MetalRenard · 10-02-2012, 02:07 AM

Ok, good luck.

(Oh and if you want some rock music or something, then send me a message, I do lots of guitar stuff but also all kinds of other cool things.)

MaximusXXX · 10-02-2012, 05:21 PM

Yeah, I know guys. But I'm simply not in any mood to waste my time contacting people or waiting weeks for a response.

I have a job and this is a project for me that I want to get finished and spend a lot of free time doing.

I'd rather dig in the royalty free music section for a day than try contacting Universal or the CRAA, etc.

Thanks for the responses guys, always appreciate it.