iPhone Filmmaking. The New Indie?

[indietalk]

I don't care for or respect anyone who says using an iPhone is the new it thing.

Nobody here said it is the new thing, except the OP in a sensational title to promote a film.

And Coke is "The real thing" right? We can start a debate over why Pepsi is the real-real thing if you want, and why we shouldn't drink Coke. But it's called marketing!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoF_a0-7xVQ
()

I'll concede to that they can do whatever they want. I don't have to like it.

You'd probably be better putting your efforts into your own endeavors and stop thinking the world is going to end over a marketing slogan on a forum and someone else's film.

Nobody here said it's the next indie camera, it is just a tool in the toolbox.

PS. You are doing great at promoting this film for the OP. They love it.

 

[directorik]

Not the quality but it's against the art of filmmaking.

I said, “it's [using an iPhone] is a great way to start a career.” You said
"it's [using an iPhone] againt the art of filmmaking”. That's what I
responded to. That's what we all responded to.

How we communicate is important. Do you really feel that using an
iPhone is against the art of filmmaking?

Marketing: use what ever tool you have. Tangerine used that marketing
tool well. It got people talking and watching. I spoke to the director and
DP a couple of times. They did several tests with different cameras and
lenses and chose the iPhone and Moondog anamorphic adapter in part
because they knew it would help in marketing.

No one is saying YOU have to like it. I'm saying someday YOU will open
your mind and respect the choices your fellow filmmakers make - even if
it's marketing.

 

[FreddyLongSongs]

I said, “it's [using an iPhone] is a great way to start a career.” You said
"it's [using an iPhone] againt the art of filmmaking”. That's what I
responded to. That's what we all responded to.

How we communicate is important. Do you really feel that using an
iPhone is against the art of filmmaking?

Marketing: use what ever tool you have. Tangerine used that marketing
tool well. It got people talking and watching. I spoke to the director and
DP a couple of times. They did several tests with different cameras and
lenses and chose the iPhone and Moondog anamorphic adapter in part
because they knew it would help in marketing.

No one is saying YOU have to like it. I'm saying someday YOU will open
your mind and respect the choices your fellow filmmakers make - even if
it's marketing.

So, it was a gimmick and not artistic expression. Hmm... I rest my case.

It's against the art of filmmaking because it's a tacky gimmick to gain interest.

 

[FreddyLongSongs]

Nobody here said it is the new thing, except the OP in a sensational title to promote a film.

And Coke is "The real thing" right? We can start a debate over why Pepsi is the real-real thing if you want, and why we shouldn't drink Coke. But it's called marketing!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoF_a0-7xVQ
()



You'd probably be better putting your efforts into your own endeavors and stop thinking the world is going to end over a marketing slogan on a forum and someone else's film.

Nobody here said it's the next indie camera, it is just a tool in the toolbox.

PS. You are doing great at promoting this film for the OP. They love it.

Without use of a gimmick. You're doing just as much promotion.

 

[indietalk]

Without use of a gimmick. You're doing just as much promotion.

I like to promote members' films. It's one of the reasons this website exists.

 

[AcousticAl]

I don't care to spend 20+ years proudly working for anyone. Want a gold star? Owning a production studio and help building an economy is what impresses me. Example: Tyler Perry and Oprah. That's what I'm after. Not a padded resume.

Well, good luck with that.

You have effectively written off all the hardworking crewmembers out there whose experience and creativity is the backbone of this industry, since their not being major studio owners means you apparently have no value for them, and since being in that kind of position yourself - ever - is beneath you. You'll have a great time trying to crew your projects.

By the way, owning a media empire on the scale of Tyler Perry and Oprah Winfrey is a VERY rare thing, and you sure has hell don't get there without some experience.

Or wisdom.

But even then, owning a studio of that magnitude is even more rare now. Most of those who do, built them when it was still slightly possible to do such a thing. Others have already amassed fortunes and have the millions of dollars needed to pour into it, but that doesn't happen much at all. Nowadays, much of the work is going to smaller boutique production companies that operate out of home offices or, for those who can afford it, trendy urban loft spaces.

 

[FreddyLongSongs]

Well, good luck with that.

You have effectively written off all the hardworking crewmembers out there whose experience and creativity is the backbone of this industry, since their not being major studio owners means you apparently have no value for them, and since being in that kind of position yourself - ever - is beneath you. You'll have a great time trying to crew your projects.

By the way, owning a media empire on the scale of Tyler Perry and Oprah Winfrey is a VERY rare thing, and you sure has hell don't get there without some experience.

Or wisdom.

But even then, owning a studio of that magnitude is even more rare now. Most of those who do, built them when it was still slightly possible to do such a thing. Others have already amassed fortunes and have the millions of dollars needed to pour into it, but that doesn't happen much at all. Nowadays, much of the work is going to smaller boutique production companies that operate out of home offices or, for those who can afford it, trendy urban loft spaces.

You must stay up 24 hours because the way you talk, you're not a dreamer.

First, you started pumping your chests about what you did for 20+ years, etc. No one asked you. However, you have 20+ years of experience and relationships so it should mean something tangible. At least try.

No one is beneath me but I have aspirations and goals. When I make 20+ years in this business, I'll have more than 20+ years in this business. A trendy little loft office is fine by me. I don't like or care for the iPhone gimmick. 20+ years of experience wouldn't change that. Good luck to 20 more years of doing what you do.

I live by the slogan of Nike, Just Do It. Experience is either a barrier of entry or an excuse for scared people.

FYI, if being someone is happy being a crew member, kudos. They're good in my book but it isn't enough for me.

 

[indietalk]

I live by the slogan of Nike, Just Do It.

If you were just doing it you wouldn't be telling others how to do it.

"Just do it, and condemn others for not doing what I am doing, and waste energy telling them I want to stop them from doing that, and that it is not art."

Your words:

I refuse to let that become of film.

 

[FreddyLongSongs]

If you were just doing it you wouldn't be telling others how to do it.

"Just do it, and condemn others for not doing what I am doing, and waste energy telling them I want to stop them from doing that, and that it is not art."

Your words:

I don't see the correlation.

Everyone isn't going to agree or think highly of what everyone do.

 

[sfoster]

I'll concede to that they can do whatever they want. I don't have to like it. Honestly, I perused your post and missed it..

Pretty strange you would peruse a post and still miss that.
I have a hunch that you don't know what peruse means.

It's against the art of filmmaking because it's a tacky gimmick to gain interest.

Dude.. it's called Show Business.

Show Business

You're a complete amateur and that's all you'll ever be if you can't grasp the business aspects of film making.

 

[AcousticAl]

 

[indietalk]

Gimmick had been embedded in art since... art. You don't have to like it, but it is not against art. Warhol? Banksy? Is Banksy not an artist? He is not using spray paint out of necessity (as you say). He was inspired by graffiti artists, and he can afford a paint brush. Is KISS not a real band? Experimental filmmakers have even used the Fisher-Price PXL-2000 toy camcorder. Not out of necessity. As a gimmick. These films played in art galleries. Like I said you may not like it, but why do you get to decide what goes against art and why are you so bothered by what other people do?

 

[directorik]

It is usually the young amateur with a lot of book, video and internet knowledge
who see the "art" of film making as something sacred. An "art" hurt by crass
promotion and gimmicks. He may grow out of this phase and see film making
for what it is rather than what he wants it to be. Or he may hold onto this
view forever.

Finding a "gimmick" to stand out is part of the "art" of film making. An important
part. An essential part of the "art". Closed minded people shore up their wall with
passion, conviction and sarcasm in order to stay "true" to their narrow point of view.
Open minded artists see new and ever changing tools not as gimmicks but as ways
to promote their work.

I was going to mention the PXL2000 and its 25 years of festivals. I'm glad you did,
indie. I have made several movies for the local festival. It's gimmick so FLS can rest
his case again but using that toy camera raises the "art" of film making rather than
goes against. Yes, every Tom, Sally and Bob can call themselves a filmmaker. Even
every Freddy. And that's far from being "against the art of filmmaking", that is the
very essence of the art.

 

[AcousticAl]

Finding a "gimmick" to stand out is part of the "art" of film making. An important
part. An essential part of the "art".

Absolutely. Now, whether one calls it a gimmick, calls it artistic choice, or calls it smart marketing is certainly debatable. But yes.

I think an important point that has been missing from this conversation is that gimmick does not compensate for talent. Well, unless you're Tommy Wiseau, James Nguyen, or Uwe Boll. "Tangerine" got extra publicity from shooting on an iPhone, but it was still a good film. The gimmick didn't compensate for the abilities of the filmmakers; if anything, it put a huge spotlight on their talents.

Yes, every Tom, Sally and Bob can call themselves a filmmaker. Even
every Freddy. And that's far from being "against the art of filmmaking", that is the
very essence of the art.

Yes!

 

[indietalk]

100%

Unless you want to make a film and let it "speak for itself." When no one hears it, lesson learned.

Be loud. Be proud. Do what it takes to get it out there.

 

[FreddyLongSongs]

Pretty strange you would peruse a post and still miss that.
I have a hunch that you don't know what peruse means.



Dude.. it's called Show Business.

Show Business

You're a complete amateur and that's all you'll ever be if you can't grasp the business aspects of film making.

Peruse is by Webster as I learned in 8th grade "to look at or read (something) in an informal or relaxed way". Ironically, it can also mean to look over something carefully. So, I know how I used it and used it correctly.

I know what show business is, young lad. I don't have an issue disagreeing or sharing my opinion. However, you deities are shook that I do not speak in unison of you all.

 

[FreddyLongSongs]

100%

Unless you want to make a film and let it "speak for itself." When no one hears it, lesson learned.

Be loud. Be proud. Do what it takes to get it out there.

What does that even mean? Marketing and gimmick aren't synonymous. You like it, you like it but you're trying to chastise me over something I believe in.

I'm not trying to change anyone's mind but you all are trying to change mine.

 

[indietalk]

I'm not trying to change anyone's mind but you all are trying to change mine.

Just trying to open it more.

 

[FreddyLongSongs]

It is usually the young amateur with a lot of book, video and internet knowledge
who see the "art" of film making as something sacred. An "art" hurt by crass
promotion and gimmicks. He may grow out of this phase and see film making
for what it is rather than what he wants it to be. Or he may hold onto this
view forever.

Finding a "gimmick" to stand out is part of the "art" of film making. An important
part. An essential part of the "art". Closed minded people shore up their wall with
passion, conviction and sarcasm in order to stay "true" to their narrow point of view.
Open minded artists see new and ever changing tools not as gimmicks but as ways
to promote their work.

I was going to mention the PXL2000 and its 25 years of festivals. I'm glad you did,
indie. I have made several movies for the local festival. It's gimmick so FLS can rest
his case again but using that toy camera raises the "art" of film making rather than
goes against. Yes, every Tom, Sally and Bob can call themselves a filmmaker. Even
every Freddy. And that's far from being "against the art of filmmaking", that is the
very essence of the art.

I'm in this for the long haul because I believe in my abilities to make a sustainable and independent life for myself. Shooting a film with a phone for the sake of shooting it with a phone is whack to me. For an extra pat on the back? An unearned look? If I had to shoot with a phone, I rather no one knows and compare it with the big toys. If they ask I'll tell them.

There's affirmative action for film now? Say you shot it with an iPhone and they got to watch it.

You all keep moving the goal post instead of staying on topic. It's a gimmick and I find it against the art of filmmaking. That's what I firmly believe. I'm not trying to convince anyone.

You all admitted it's a gimmick but trying to say it's a great gimmick, it gets people going, etc.

I didn't ask for that. I know it'll do it's job. Look at you all hopping on it like dogs in heat. I'm just not swayed by cheap thrills. I wish them best and much success.

 

[indietalk]

Deja vu.