Experienced producer needed to acquire and distribute the budget for Miami female-led action movie. See www.KillerEyesMovie.com.
Thanks!
Lauran
Thanks!
Lauran
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Experienced Executive Producer Needed
- Thread starter Lauran
- Start date
Come on sweetie, you know what she doesn't understand, you're just trying to provoke her!
Lauran, Sweetie is referring to the fact that any Experienced exec-producer is completely uninterested in deferred payment. In the industry, deferred payment is synonymous with No payment. In other words, do you have a realistic plan for making this deferred payment?
G
'like'
OK, maybe. ... Looks like I did provoke her though!
No, actually I didn't know that. What I thought I knew was in fact the exact opposite, that in the vast majority of cases an experienced exec producer wouldn't even try "to get the funds". I notice you avoided answering my question, so I'll take that as a "no".
G
I suspect she's just dismissive. It's her first movie, and of course, she knows what she knows.
She doesn't realize how insulting as her words were. It's akin to insisting you need to thank her on top of your pro gratis work after she insists the exposure you'll get for working on her film means you'll still owe her one.
The words deferred to an experienced Executive Producer is the kiss of death. You don't treat those whom you're asking for money (or to fetch you money) like an idiot. Anything short of fee, equity and/or commission (if legal in your area) is not only laughable, it's insulting.
Want to see how ludicrous it is. Try and set a 30 second phone call with Kathleen Kennedy while also using the words "deferred". I can assure you, not even the intern of the secretary of her assistant would take the call.
A thread like this creates a bit of a problem, doesn't it?
Those who understand how this business works know this method does not
work. So do we tell a first time poster that? On one hand pointing out how
financing actually works can be seen has helpful; on the other hand it can
be seen as being negative and/or unsupportive.
Is it unhelpful to point out that an experienced executive producer will not
work on “deferred” pay? After all; “It could happen.” There is always that hope.
Should the more experienced dash that hope with reason? We know that most
will only get defensive and some will get downright angry. In the experience of
those of us who have contributed to indietalk for more than a year we know
that the vast majority of people whose first post is asking for money will never
return to the forum.
I'm just exploring out loud; I want to help, I want to offer my experience in how
financing actually works but I know that very few will accept that advice and
experience. So I stop responding to these kinds of threads. But then that's why
I continue to contribute here; because I have experience in independent film
financing and want to help. What I do know is that flippant replies don't help, but
they are normal reactions.
Those who understand how this business works know this method does not
work. So do we tell a first time poster that? On one hand pointing out how
financing actually works can be seen has helpful; on the other hand it can
be seen as being negative and/or unsupportive.
Is it unhelpful to point out that an experienced executive producer will not
work on “deferred” pay? After all; “It could happen.” There is always that hope.
Should the more experienced dash that hope with reason? We know that most
will only get defensive and some will get downright angry. In the experience of
those of us who have contributed to indietalk for more than a year we know
that the vast majority of people whose first post is asking for money will never
return to the forum.
I'm just exploring out loud; I want to help, I want to offer my experience in how
financing actually works but I know that very few will accept that advice and
experience. So I stop responding to these kinds of threads. But then that's why
I continue to contribute here; because I have experience in independent film
financing and want to help. What I do know is that flippant replies don't help, but
they are normal reactions.
OK, maybe. ... Looks like I did provoke her though!
No, actually I didn't know that. What I thought I knew was in fact the exact opposite, that in the vast majority of cases an experienced exec producer wouldn't even try "to get the funds". I notice you avoided answering my question, so I'll take that as a "no".
G
Sorry I didn't answer your question. I expect the executive producer to sort that out. This is my first movie but even if it wasn't, I doubt I'd be handling the finance. Having an input, yes, but I don't think that'll be something I'd be good at.
I didn't mean to be insulting and I think I didn't explain myself properly. By 'deferred' I meant get a commission - or whatever it takes for an executive producer to feel well rewarded. Again, I'm new to this and there's a lot I don't know, that's why I came on here, to learn.
So sorry if I offended you or if I came off the wrong way. My intention wasn't insulting at all and I'm not being arrogant - which I think is your suggestion.
Also as a writer and artist all my life I'm very sensitive to people trying to get work for free, which happens a lot - at least to many of us. Yes I want to get paid and I want the cast and crew to be well compensated. That's what I want an executive producer for - to get and deal with the budget.
Thank you! I certainly want to learn and appreciate learning from others' experience.
I Changed the Thread Title To -
'Experienced executive producer needed to acquire and distribute the budget for Miami female-led action movie. See www.KillerEyesMovie.com.'
Do you think that's fair/the right way to present my request?
Thanks.
'Experienced executive producer needed to acquire and distribute the budget for Miami female-led action movie. See www.KillerEyesMovie.com.'
Do you think that's fair/the right way to present my request?
Thanks.
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OK, maybe. ... Looks like I did provoke her though!
No, actually I didn't know that. What I thought I knew was in fact the exact opposite, that in the vast majority of cases an experienced exec producer wouldn't even try "to get the funds". I notice you avoided answering my question, so I'll take that as a "no".
G
Hi AudioPostExpert - so who would go after the money besides me if the executive producer doesn't work on that?
Lauran, you have the correct basic term; often the person who is
credited as “Executive Producer” on an independent film is the
person who found the financing. However, an experienced executive
producer is not looking at messageboards for projects. Of course,
“it could happen” which leads me to my problem with posts like this;
I have no argument to that hope. Yes, it could happen.
I will not discourage you from looking for someone to find financing
for your movie on indietalk – or any forum. But offering “deferred”
payment is insulting.
First; the legal term (and we ARE talking legally here) “deferred” is
an arrangement where the employer will delay a portion of the agreed
upon fee until a later date. In other words you will agree to pay an
executive producer $50,000 and you will pay $10,000 now and defer
the rest until six months from now. But the entire fee will be paid. What
you are asking is an experienced executive producer will find the funding
for your movie and will take their fee from the money they raise. If they
can't get the full amount needed they get nothing. This is an agreement
some beginners may agree on, but someone with experience will not.
Second; you have already cast this and hired most of the crew. So an
experienced executive producer who is finding the financing has their
hands tied. They are not a partner in the movie they are a hired hand.
That's fine if you are paying a fee – even if part of the fee is deferred.
In independent filmmaking the executive producer is more often a creative
partner in the project – someone who has some say in casting and the crew.
Very often an experienced executive producer can get money if a specific
actor is attached. In this case YOU have eliminated this possibility. An
experienced executive producer may have some connections with crew, too.
This is especially helpful for a first time director. I am NOT saying an
experienced executive producer will tell you what to do, I'm saying that the
person finding all the money will want to have some creative stake in the
production. YOU have already eliminated this possibility.
No one (even sweetie) is suggesting that you need to find financing. Only
that you are misguided in who you are looking for. As your project stand
now you are looking for someone to do nothing but look for money for your
project and only get paid IF they find it. No personal involvement, no creative
input, no “partnership” with the writer, the producer or the director. That is
acceptable if you are paying for their skill and experience. Not so much if you
are expecting them to work on contingency.
credited as “Executive Producer” on an independent film is the
person who found the financing. However, an experienced executive
producer is not looking at messageboards for projects. Of course,
“it could happen” which leads me to my problem with posts like this;
I have no argument to that hope. Yes, it could happen.
I will not discourage you from looking for someone to find financing
for your movie on indietalk – or any forum. But offering “deferred”
payment is insulting.
First; the legal term (and we ARE talking legally here) “deferred” is
an arrangement where the employer will delay a portion of the agreed
upon fee until a later date. In other words you will agree to pay an
executive producer $50,000 and you will pay $10,000 now and defer
the rest until six months from now. But the entire fee will be paid. What
you are asking is an experienced executive producer will find the funding
for your movie and will take their fee from the money they raise. If they
can't get the full amount needed they get nothing. This is an agreement
some beginners may agree on, but someone with experience will not.
Second; you have already cast this and hired most of the crew. So an
experienced executive producer who is finding the financing has their
hands tied. They are not a partner in the movie they are a hired hand.
That's fine if you are paying a fee – even if part of the fee is deferred.
In independent filmmaking the executive producer is more often a creative
partner in the project – someone who has some say in casting and the crew.
Very often an experienced executive producer can get money if a specific
actor is attached. In this case YOU have eliminated this possibility. An
experienced executive producer may have some connections with crew, too.
This is especially helpful for a first time director. I am NOT saying an
experienced executive producer will tell you what to do, I'm saying that the
person finding all the money will want to have some creative stake in the
production. YOU have already eliminated this possibility.
No one (even sweetie) is suggesting that you need to find financing. Only
that you are misguided in who you are looking for. As your project stand
now you are looking for someone to do nothing but look for money for your
project and only get paid IF they find it. No personal involvement, no creative
input, no “partnership” with the writer, the producer or the director. That is
acceptable if you are paying for their skill and experience. Not so much if you
are expecting them to work on contingency.
Thanks for your reply Directorik. Did you notice that I changed my initial post and removed the word 'deferred'? I mentioned it in a previous post. When I originally wrote 'deferred' I meant it in the sense that the executive producer would get paid when the money came in, and I assume there are established percentage commissions or fees for that. I don't know what the norms are in this business. I don't even know what I'm likely to be paid.
So my original use of the word 'deferred' was through ignorance.
It's news to me that an executive director expects to have creative input. Again, my ignorance. Still, there are three important roles yet to be cast and I want name stars, preferably, for all three. If an executive producer got them that would be great. Presently I'm finding it difficult to get through to stars' agents with no funding in place. Unsurprisingly.
Your suggestion as I understand it is to bring in an executive producer much earlier in the process. I had no idea. And not much of an idea how to go about that either.
Regarding using a forum to look for what I want - well, you never know who's on a board or who they know. Some surprisingly good connections can be made on forums.
So apologies all, just trying to get to know something useful things here. Please excuse my ignorance because I certainly don't intend to be insulting.
I agree. “It could happen.” and “You never know.” are strong statements
that are impossible to argue. You are right, you never know who is on a
board and it could happen.
For those of us who have been contributing here for more than a year we
see many filmmakers post for the first time asking for money. Most simply
never return. Many get defensive and argumentative and even hostile when
offered a touch of realism. Very few are like you.
Of course. Because most agents are not interested in attaching their clients
to an unfunded project. Most actors are not in the business of helping first
time directors get their project made. They are in the business of earning a
living. When you have money, agents will take you far more seriously. Thus
the catch-22, right?
Not all of them do. Sometimes a filmmaker will find someone who just wants
to raise money and give total creative control to the writer/director. It could
happen. You never know. Usually that person is a personal friend of the filmmaker
who has total and complete trust in their personal friend and they are given
the “Executive Producer” credit as a thank you. Some executive producers get
the credit because they do nothing but bring on talent. But what YOU want is
someone who doesn't know you to sign on to your project and work hard for
no money. No money up front, anyway. I suppose it could happen. You never
know, right?
You have quite a challenge ahead of you. But it seems you have the right
attitude. My advice is to take a few steps back and rework your pitch. Finding
someone to find financing for a project that is already listed on IMDb and has
most of the cast and crew already attached is daunting. It's not an attractive
project for most experienced executive producers. One, no up front money
means they will ONLY get anything if they succeed in getting full funding. Two,
very little creative input. Three, they will have to put together a line item
budget (for no pay) before they can even start looking for financing. So you
have narrowed down the type of EP who may be interested in your project.
At a guess, I'd say you're looking for 4 positions to be filled.
Line Producer - budget.
Producer - Taking over your role as producer. This is the general in your army. They're the ones that know all this.
Executive Producer - Finance / package sourcing.
PMD - Producer of Marketing and Distribution - A relatively new coined term in the indie world. They're specialists focusing on the marketing, selling and distribution of your film.
That line alone is why I say you'll want to recruit a producer.
The best way to describe executive producers is a match maker. Investors are looking for good projects/filmmakers to invest in. Filmmakers are looking for investors. Finding teams that are a good fit for each other is what they do. They know people.
Another category of EP is those who know and can attach the talent that allows for projects to be greenlit and never source money at all.
Of course there are others who blur the role between traditional producer and EP.
I suspect APE means that they're unlikely to look for the money for you. They'll be uninterested in your project.
The larger problem for Lauren and her project is the perception it creates. There is a possibility that a producers assistant catches the thread in a google keyword report. The assistant reads the thread. It throws up a red flag. The red flag would scream, "I'm unaware of how movies are financed, run away". Since Lauren's real name is attached to this thread, her name could potentially also be attached to that red flag.
We all have to learn and that is what a lot of us are doing here.
This is worth reading, again and again and again. It's quite a complex topic.
There is something in filmmaking called the "Package". It is the most important part of whether a film will receive finance or not. When you're talking about financing, the package is way more important than the script. Working on that package is the job of the producer. It requires knowledge of finance, distribution, sales, tax credits and the list continues.
Virtually every independent production that has ever crossed my desk (and seen on this forum) has been struck with this kiss of death. Filmmaking is risky. Without taking steps to mitigate risk, the chances of finance decline from almost zero to less than that.
There's a couple of additional reasons you're having trouble outside the financing.
A). You're inexperienced.
B). You're not going through proper channels. YOU are going direct to their agent.
In your position, you really need to drop a wad of cash (which you probably don't have) and hire a Casting Director. They'll cost you about $10k. In my opinion, it's your only real option if you want a name attached. Since you're a nobody, your name won't open doors. You won't be able to raise financing, so in all likelihood, you're going to have to pull it out of your own pocket. That casting director can help you get letters of intent from some B and possibly lower tier A level talent. At that point, you can start to get the real ball rolling, perhaps then even getting some presales to show proof of concept for investors.
Keep on asking questions. If people write you a decent amount, a one line response rarely comes off well.
One thing to keep in mind, just as there are many different ways to write and/or direct a movie, there are many different ways to raise finance. It's almost an art form unto itself. The methods that Rik pointed out aren't your only options.
PS. I think your million dollar ask is insane.