Shady SAG actor

[GusChiggins]

Hi guys,
New here but excited to join the community. I'm dealing with a shady actor and I need some legal advice. SO, to make a long story short, I got hired to make a short web series and the financier wanted to use this one actor who he knew personally... however the financier wasn't providing a big enough budget to pay SAG rates for all of the talent in the series... and we made that clear that this was a non-union production... BUT this financier said his actor friend who was SAG, would scab for us and violate his union to be in the series because he wanted more speaking lines, yadda yadda... so we said, okay, but we still need a paper contract. The actor acted a bit squirrelly, but eventually, he signed something with the financier. Flash forward to 4 months later and a big name media company wants to BUY the web series, but they want us to re-edit it and make sure we get everyone papered. This actor is REFUSING to sign a contract, and claims he never signed a contract in the first place and that he could sue us... and he's asking for SAG rates and a limited usage term (not perpetuity like we had originally)... and we don't want to look like idiots to the media company that wants to buy our series— but we also don't want to have this super shady actor come after us.

What do we do? Should we just go ahead and know that he's bluffing since he would get kicked out of SAG for doing a non-union project? I hate shady people... I also take full responsibility for using a SAG actor on a non-union project.

Help please!

Thanks,
Gus

 

[mlesemann]

This probably isn't going to help you now, but for next time, the best way to handle this is the SAG AFTRA New Media contract, which does not have minimum pay rates (although you are supposed to abide by local minimum wage laws), allows full deferral of contractual pay, and allows for the use of both SAG AFTRA and non-SAG AFTRA actors.

You do, however, have to deal with their paperwork requirements and insurance.

http://www.sagaftra.org/production-center/new-media/faq

 

[harmonica44]

You have the contract he signed originally, right? He said he never signed one, but if you have proof that he did and show it to them, that will make the actor out to be untruthful. Then he looks like the idiot and not you. Doesn't really solve the issue but it may put the ball in your court more? What do others say about this?

 

[sfoster]

You could threaten to expose him to sag but then he might have you on the hook for blackmail

 

[Morris]

While you should discuss this with an entertainment attorney, have you told the financier about his buddy? Not knowing the arrangement you have with him, I would think he would be upset if his buddy could cause him financial difficulty.

 

[harmonica44]

Even if the actor has him on the hook for blackmail, what's he going to say? That he was blackmailed into being exposed for going against SAG rules? That will still make him look more bad though, won't it?

 

[payperfilm]

This actor isn't shady. It's worse. He's delusional and crazy. I'm guessing
you already had a heart to heart talk with about how his actions will may screw up a golden opportunity everyone.

First, I would talk with the other actors and crew to put some pressure on him.
Some may have become friends with him. They have a lot to gain if this pans out.

Second, if he cashed a check for his work, he may have signed his rights away. If he sues or does anything to cause the deal to fall through, that may be grounds for legal action against him. Let him know that.

Third, discuss this situation with the Media company. Perhaps, they would be willing to front some money for reshoots to get rid of this actor.

Don't feel too bad. This happens a lot, and it happened to me.

 

[sfoster]

Even if the actor has him on the hook for blackmail, what's he going to say? That he was blackmailed into being exposed for going against SAG rules? That will still make him look more bad though, won't it?

It's possible to handle this without committing a crime. That was my point.

 

[Dreadylocks]

If you have a contract then you have a contract. The fact that he violated his agreement with SAG is between him and SAG. You do not have any contracts with SAG, you are square.

But you should really talk to a lawyer. Have the lawyer send this actor a letter stating the facts (that he signed a legal contract and was work-for-hire as supported by him being paid). That should hopefully shut him up about the lawsuit business.

As far as the big media company is concerned, why does he need to sign a new contract with them? Was your original not good enough for them? You have paperwork that says you own the product, so that should be good enough, though IANAL.

 

[harmonica44]

It's possible to handle this without committing a crime. That was my point.

Oh I see .

 

[Sweetie]

I need some legal advice

The best advice I can give you. Seek the services of a qualified entertainment attorney. Non-qualified legal advice is nothing more than someone's opinion.

On a non-legal side, I'd work out a way to cut the actor out of the series and replace with another. If S/He is like this now, you can imagine the problems they'll give you in the long term.

 

[Aspiring Mogul]

Hi guys,
New here but excited to join the community. I'm dealing with a shady actor and I need some legal advice. SO, to make a long story short, I got hired to make a short web series and the financier wanted to use this one actor who he knew personally... however the financier wasn't providing a big enough budget to pay SAG rates for all of the talent in the series... and we made that clear that this was a non-union production... BUT this financier said his actor friend who was SAG, would scab for us and violate his union to be in the series because he wanted more speaking lines, yadda yadda... so we said, okay, but we still need a paper contract. The actor acted a bit squirrelly, but eventually, he signed something with the financier. Flash forward to 4 months later and a big name media company wants to BUY the web series, but they want us to re-edit it and make sure we get everyone papered. This actor is REFUSING to sign a contract, and claims he never signed a contract in the first place and that he could sue us... and he's asking for SAG rates and a limited usage term (not perpetuity like we had originally)... and we don't want to look like idiots to the media company that wants to buy our series— but we also don't want to have this super shady actor come after us.

What do we do? Should we just go ahead and know that he's bluffing since he would get kicked out of SAG for doing a non-union project? I hate shady people... I also take full responsibility for using a SAG actor on a non-union project.

Help please!

Thanks,
Gus

Hello, Gus,

I don't know enough about your situation, so I can't give advice. But you should speak to an LA lawyer about this, and he may want to write a letter to that actor, explaining your position and demanding he clarify his position. Then you and your lawyer can go from there.

Rik, you reading this?

 

[directorik]

The actor acted a bit squirrelly, but eventually, he signed something with the financier. <snip> This actor is REFUSING to sign a contract, and claims he never signed a contract in the first place and that he could sue us...

If he signed a contract with the financier then it doesn't matter if he
now says he didn't sign one. The contract exists. He cannot sue you.

Now if there never was a signed contract - if the actor is telling the
truth and the "something" he signed with the financier isn't a contract
then you cannot legally use his image.

I also take full responsibility for using a SAG actor on a non-union project.

The good news is you are not in any trouble for using a guild actor on a
non-guild project. The agreement is between the actor and the guild.
You have no agreement with the guild to use only guild members.

The big name media company will require all the legal paperwork. If this
one actor did not sign a contract and refuses to sign a revised contract
there is very little you can do. I have personally been through this. It can
be a nightmare. If the "something" the actor signed is, in fact, a standard
performers contract then you may be in the clear.

Can you tell me anything about the something he signed with the financier?
I just want you to understand that as long as you, the financier or the prodCo
involved are not a SAG-AFTRA signatory then you have not violated any agreement
at all. You or the prodCo are not a signatory to SAG-AFTRA are you?

 

[GusChiggins]

Thanks everyone for your feedback and responses. I really appreciate it.

Rik, the financier supposedly can't find the contract he signed... but I suspect he merely doesn't want to deal with the actor who is his friend and is embarrassed by the way he's handling this. The crappy part is that the financier of all people doesn't care about the deal and doesn't see why it matters so much to me and my team... for us, it's the difference between putting something out that's cool that nobody (a few thousand) saw vs having a built-in audience that could become as regular as a million per episode. Not to mention, we all worked for free and would finally get a payday— but he either doesn't care or really doesn't want to ruffle his actor friend's feathers.

Nobody on my team is a signatory to SAG-AFTRA.

All in all, we're left to either A) lose the deal or B) take the deal (if they're willing) and run the risk of this crazy actor suing us. We can't simply cut him out of the thing because he's the lead— I should have mentioned that. However, I guess, now I'm wondering: if we took the deal, are we really at risk if this actor didn't sign anything? If he's SAG, wouldn't he be screwing himself if he went after us? I hate to fight fire with fire, but like some of you have guessed, we've tried being reasonable, polite, and even begged to make this happen— to no avail.

Thoughts?

Thanks so much,
Gus

 

[sfoster]

Thanks everyone for your feedback and responses. I really appreciate it.

Rik, the financier supposedly can't find the contract he signed... but I suspect he merely doesn't want to deal with the actor who is his friend and is embarrassed by the way he's handling this. The crappy part is that the financier of all people doesn't care about the deal and doesn't see why it matters so much to me and my team... for us, it's the difference between putting something out that's cool that nobody (a few thousand) saw vs having a built-in audience that could become as regular as a million per episode. Not to mention, we all worked for free and would finally get a payday— but he either doesn't care or really doesn't want to ruffle his actor friend's feathers.

Nobody on my team is a signatory to SAG-AFTRA.

All in all, we're left to either A) lose the deal or B) take the deal (if they're willing) and run the risk of this crazy actor suing us. We can't simply cut him out of the thing because he's the lead— I should have mentioned that. However, I guess, now I'm wondering: if we took the deal, are we really at risk if this actor didn't sign anything? If he's SAG, wouldn't he be screwing himself if he went after us? I hate to fight fire with fire, but like some of you have guessed, we've tried being reasonable, polite, and even begged to make this happen— to no avail.

Thoughts?

Thanks so much,
Gus

My thoughts are that you're screwed without the contract, and this 'financier' has taken the actors side. He can do more than sue you, he can sue the distributor. And likely the distributor will not touch you with a 10ft pole if you don't have the proper paperwork.


Just for my own personal curiosity, Did you ever see the contract with your own eyes?

 

[directorik]

Rik, the financier supposedly can't find the contract he signed...

Then there is no contract. And that puts you in a terrible place.

However, I guess, now I'm wondering: if we took the deal, are we really at risk if this actor didn't sign anything? If he's SAG, wouldn't he be screwing himself if he went after us?

Unfortunately this isn't about the actor suing. It's about the big
name media company. The chances are if you do not have and
cannot get a signed contract from this actor they will walk away
from the deal. The fact that the person who put up the money
doesn't want the deal make it even more difficult for you - legally.
If the actor does decided to sue he would sue the big name media
company and not you.

Yes, he might get into some trouble with the guild if he were to sue.
It might even hurt his career. But the real issue is; will the big name
media company be willing to take on these legal issues?

I've been through something similar. An $850,000 film sitting on a
shelf since 1999 because one of the producers used the wrong SAG
agreement and no one caught it until a distributor was doing their
due diligence.

 

[wheatgrinder]

do you have a contract with the financier cum producer? If so sue him for failure to get the contract signed by the actor. If he told you the actor was on contract, its his problem not yours. You have real damages in the amount of the payday you were hoping for..

 

[harmonica44]

What if you recorded the guy who hired you and recorded him admitting that there is a contract, and that he still cannot find it? If you ask him if he found it yet and he said no, I'm still looking, then you have recorded proof that he has one, and is just unwilling to give it up, or he actually lost it. You then show the recording to the media company, and it's then on him to produce the contract, no?

This is just an idea and others who are more familiar with the law should tell me if it's good or bad. However, if you live in a second party nation then you should be allowed to record a conversation as long as you are part of it. I got into some legal issues over a contract and lost money, and from then on, I know record conversations just in case, even though it's unconventional. Now whether or not the big media company will go for a recording, assuming it's legal where you live, will depend on whether or not the person in charge in the company, believes in recording conversations to get proof or not.

 

[sfoster]

What if you recorded the guy who hired you and recorded him admitting that there is a contract, and that he still cannot find it? If you ask him if he found it yet and he said no, I'm still looking, then you have recorded proof that he has one, and is just unwilling to give it up, or he actually lost it. You then show the recording to the media company, and it's then on him to produce the contract, no?

This is illegal in america

 

[harmonica44]

Damn.