Gun Shots

Hi everybody,

I'm making a short film which is coming up in the next 4-5 weeks. I have a gunshot at the end of the film and was wondering if anyone knew of some good tips/tricks that would help make it authentic enough from a wide angle. I don't have access to blanks by the way and still need it to be as safe as possible.
The filming will most likely be done gorilla style.

Thanks everyone.
 
This post gave me an idea for a show reel I hope to do.
After a little research, I found that another way that would give you perhaps better results would be to buy a blank firing prop gun. Is it a pricier option then say special effects, yes, but it would give you the sound, feel, look, and flash of a real gun without the need to edit in anything other then bullet impacts and ricochets if any which is a lot easier then editing in all of that plus all of the gun flash and noise also.

http://www.stage-props-blank-guns.c...-M92F-8MM-Blank-Firing-Gun-Nickel-p-1558.html
 
After a little research, I found that another way that would give you perhaps better results would be to buy a blank firing prop gun. Is it a pricier option then say special effects, yes, but it would give you the sound, feel, look, and flash of a real gun without the need to edit in anything other then bullet impacts and ricochets if any which is a lot easier then editing in all of that plus all of the gun flash and noise also.

As ever, IT members seem to jump straight into thinking about how to create an authentic look without considering that unless it's accompanied by an equally authentic sound an authentic look is pointless! If the end result is that the audience perceives/feels that something is not quite right or even wrong, the authenticity of the cinematography and/or VFX is irrelevant. It only becomes relevant in combination with the sound.

BTW, presumably because of safety/insurance reasons most commonly a quarter charge blank is what is used during filming and regardless of how authentic this may or may not look, it certainly doesn't sound authentic and gunshots are therefore always replaced in audio post. Actually, it's very difficult to make good quality weapons fire recordings and there are in fact some in the professional audio post world who specialise in this specific area of film sound. Besides, using blanks is a much more expensive route to take because in addition to the actual equipment, you need a weapons expert on set because even blanks are dangerous! Regardless though, the OP states they don't have access to blanks, so that knocks that idea on the head anyway.

I'm making a short film which is coming up in the next 4-5 weeks. I have a gunshot at the end of the film and was wondering if anyone knew of some good tips/tricks that would help make it authentic enough from a wide angle.

On the sound side of this equation, I would need more information than you have provided to stand a chance of providing a concise answer. You state "wide angle" without really explaining what you mean by this, is it a wide angle inside a large building or outside? If inside, what type of building and if outside, what sort of outside; a forest, a flat empty field, mountains or maybe down-town in a city? Also, how wide angle and what is the perspective of the audio? Sometimes in film, there maybe a relatively wide shot while the sound is from a different perspective, say the POV of one of our characters. I'm presuming you probably don't mean this scenario though and in any case, even though it's an extremely effective filmmaking tool, it's difficult to pull off effectively, especially at the lo/no budget DIY level. Most commonly the end result is just a mismatch between the visual and aural perspectives which makes the sequence appear wrong to an audience. It's getting the aural perspective correct which is the tricky part, even with an aural perspective which matches the camera's perspective. Notice also I said "correct" and not "authentic" as there can be a significant difference between the two depending on what exactly you mean by "wide angle".

G
 
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Do you want realistic or Hollywood flashes? If realistic, go on YouTube and find reference videos of people firing the exact same gun using the the exact same bullets that you want first. Pay attention to how the gun recoils, where/how smoke and fire (if any) come out, and how the casings behave, and then worry about simulating it.

If you're firing near something try to make the gun interact with the environment (I once used a leaf blower to push grass down for machine gun fire). If you use computer effects, make sure to brighten the areas where light should be cast by the muzzle flash, especially in a dark environment.

Apart from blanks, it's possible to use various explosives and/or chemicals to make the gun shot practically, but in many places that's illegal, plus it's dangerous if you don't know what you're doing.

And of course AudioPostExpert is right that sound is terribly important. If you have good sound you can get away with almost any kind of flash.
 
Is it a pricier option then say special effects, yes, but it would give you the sound, feel, look, and flash of a real gun without the need to edit in anything other then bullet impacts and ricochets if any which is a lot easier then editing in all of that plus all of the gun flash and noise also.
I own a dozen of their replica guns. They look great but they do not sound
like a real gun and there is no muzzle flash. In deference to APE even the
real thing doesn't sound the way we want it on set.

I know they cannot ship to Canada. Do NZ/AUS laws allow import of these guns?
 
I own a dozen of their replica guns. They look great but they do not sound
like a real gun and there is no muzzle flash. In deference to APE even the
real thing doesn't sound the way we want it on set.

I know they cannot ship to Canada. Do NZ/AUS laws allow import of these guns?


Yea there has been a clamp down lately on realistic looking guns but there is a clause in there that allows for them to be bought in for making films.

Sound, yes sound is vital. Some of the clips I saw of these bangers did sound pretty good, but yes if there was an issue one would bring a better gun sound in.
 
Yea there has been a clamp down lately on realistic looking guns but there is a clause in there that allows for them to be bought in for making films.
Does one need a license or anything like that? Or can anyone
just state they will be using the replicas for a movie and they're
good to go?
 
Does one need a license or anything like that? Or can anyone
just state they will be using the replicas for a movie and they're
good to go?

here in New Zealand a blank firing gun was never considered a firearm as such, so those plus BB and Air guns did not need any licence.

Now however we have had some idiots running around with these replicas presenting them as real in robberies etc, so the police have pushed for and gained a law change that puts any BB or replica that looks real into the illegal bracket. However they will provide a permit to people that need them as stage props etc if that person is deemed by them to be of good sound character, and has a valid reason for needing one, such as for film.

I am in the process of applying for that permit which involves contacting my local police station and discussing my needs and reasons for them, with the fire arm control officer. She will then make a judgement call on whether I am of good sound character, and whether my needs are reasonable. Once she has made that decision she will give me a permit which allows me to import one of these and own it.

I would imagine there will be some special restrictions such as keeping it in a proper gun cabinet or some such so that it does not fall into the wrong hands, but in fairness, that seems pretty reasonable to me.

I suspect that they may not allow me to have the actual blanks but again, thats not the end of the world because I can edit in the flash, sound, etc
 
So one needs a permit to buy replica weapons in NZ. You can't just
say, "I'm buying this for use in a movie." and off you go. What about
importing? Say from SPBG? Will a package of replica weapons be
stopped in customs?

Do you know about Australia? Similar requirements?
 
So one needs a permit to buy replica weapons in NZ. You can't just
say, "I'm buying this for use in a movie." and off you go. What about
importing? Say from SPBG? Will a package of replica weapons be
stopped in customs?

Do you know about Australia? Similar requirements?

Yes any such item would be stopped at NZ customs and held until I could produce said permit to prove I have been cleared. only then would I be allowed to collect it, and if I did not, it would probably be passed onto police who would then investigate who was trying to bring illegal items into the country. I am certain swift and severe legal ramifications would come with that.

These have been taken off shop shelves, so the only way to get one now is to import one from what I can gather.

As for Australia, I am unsure of their rules. If you are in Australia you could ring the local police station as I did here, and enquire.
 
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So one needs a permit to buy replica weapons in NZ. You can't just
say, "I'm buying this for use in a movie." and off you go. What about
importing? Say from SPBG? Will a package of replica weapons be
stopped in customs? Do you know about Australia? Similar requirements?

I can't speak specifically for Australia but as a general rule it's much more difficult to get hold of a replica weapon in pretty much all "western" countries than it is to legally own a real weapon in America! I don't want to derail this thread and descend into politics but the constitution of the US and the influence of lobbying groups like the NRA seems to lead many in the US to feel it's their right and "normal" to own firearms. The answer to gun crime and firearm based atrocities appears to be a sort of arms race, more armed security guards and even higher firearm ownership in the general population to combat criminals/madmen with weapons. In most other countries the answer has been pretty much the opposite, to greatly restrict public access to firearms. In most cases access to firearms is so restricted it even extends to replicas because replicas not only represent the threat of a real firearm but in some cases can be converted to a real firearm. In the UK (for example) filming using a replica firearm is not a trivial undertaking at all as it requires a raft of bureaucracy, safety and security measures (including police supervision/presence) .

If you have good sound you can get away with almost any kind of flash.

I didn't want to imply that what happens visually is irrelevant. It's only irrelevant when the sound of the firearm destroys the suspension of disbelief. If the sound of the firearm does not destroy the suspension of disbelief then care has to be taken with the visuals to also not destroy the suspension of disbelief! In general (though not always) with lo/no budget films, far more learning, effort and attention to detail is placed on getting the visuals to look right/authentic than is placed on getting it to sound right/authentic, which is why I felt the need to bring it up.

Some of the clips I saw of these bangers did sound pretty good, but yes if there was an issue one would bring a better gun sound in.

I know of no examples in professional filmmaking of bangers, blanks or any other on-set firearm sound FX being used in the finished film, they are always replaced in audio post. As directorik stated/implied, the sound of firearms in film is largely "designed", it's about creating an emotional response in the audience (by firstly staying within the boundaries of audience expectation) at least as much if not more than being "authentic". Part of the problem is that there is really no such thing as a definitive or authentic sound for a particular firearm. Depending on where you are standing relative to the firearm and on the acoustic space in which that weapon is fired the sound changes dramatically, easily to the point of being unrecognisable! This is why I asked the OP questions pertaining to the POV and location of the gun fire.

G
 
the constitution of the US and the influence of lobbying groups like the NRA seems to lead many in the US to feel it's their right and "normal" to own firearms.
Well, that's because it is a right, protected by the constitution. :P

EDIT: But you're right. This forum is not the place to discuss such things, especially not for someone who is not a citizen to comment in a, frankly, disrespectful manner about another country.
 
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APE - You have to understand that the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution, "The Right To Bear Arms," stems from a little disagreement we call the Revolutionary War and from our frontier heritage, the western expansion. Hunting for food was common to a surprisingly large portion of the population up until Big Mistake Number Two (WWII). It's very difficult to take away or restrict something that is a part of your culture.

It should also be noted that here in the US the states and cities with the strictest gun control laws (with a few exceptions) also have the highest rates gun violence.

One more thing... The American West after our Civil War was probably one of the most peaceful places on the planet, movie westerns to the contrary. Most of the settlers were veterans of the Civil War, so were very familiar with firearms and having seen extensive combat; they just wanted a new, quiet life. Yes, there were a few "outlaws" but the bulk of gun-realted deaths then were bar fights; whiskey and weapons do not mix. But for the most part you don't F*<k someone who has a gun; knowing that you may be up against a gun is a great deterrent.
 
Right so is there anywhere that we as indie film makes can get good sounding gun sounds?

Here in NZ, even our cops don't have guns for general duties. We do have lots of guns but generally they are owned by farmers, hunters etc. The average person doesn't even bother owning one. Our cops do have access to some very powerful weaponry but generally they get around wearing at most an anti stab vest.

In saying that, location has a massive part to play as well. Take into consideration that NZ is two big islands with some small ones scattered around it. Even the dumbest criminal knows that if they shoot someone, they will get caught. Its not like they can drive for days or weeks to get away. We are too small. If the cops want you here then they will find you sooner or later. So nobody is really silly enough to shoot others unless they plan on killing themselves too because the exit strategy is almost non existent.
 
I didn't want to imply that what happens visually is irrelevant. It's only irrelevant when the sound of the firearm destroys the suspension of disbelief.

Right, but you can, for example, cut away before the actual shot, in which case you still need sound although there's no visual effect required.
 
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