THE IMPORTANT QUESTION

[TheOpusFuller]

Alright, I'm posting this discussion in the Newbie thread because I think this is one major issue that needs to be looked at and flushed! I think the newbie section is the perfect home for what's about to be talked about. Every new independent filmmaker and every veteran should be involved in this little chit chat!

So, in my opinion, the issue that needs to be discussed here is what do we do once the film is finished.

For all you new filmmakers out there, for all you filmmakers who have been at this for years, how do you make someone give a damn about the film you have just completed. How do you make them interested enough to invest their time and money to purchase your dvd from your website and sit down and watch it!?

I think that is the question.

A lot of people, including myself make a movie. They make a damn good movie. But then it sits, collects dust and dies.

Think about it. Your name is John Doe and you just made a movie. It can be the next Pulp Fiction for all you know. But the average person out there in the world has no clue who the hell you are or what the hell your movie about. I think the important question here is how do we make that average person in the world curious as to who you are and WANT to find out and watch your movie. What can we do as filmmakers to make that person WANT to spend 10 bucks on your dvd and watch that movie.

I think this is worthy of discussion and I think all of us filmmakers Newbies and Oldies should chime in and flesh this out.

*Let's keep this DIY style. I don't want to bring in Hollywood or major distribution deals.... If you want my reasoning for this, just ask and I will gladly explain why we should start modeling our film distribution as a DIY model and stop thinking we have to rely on Hollywood to get anywhere in the world when it comes to Film distribution.


Thanks,

The Opus Fuller
www.theopusfuller.com
www.twitter.com/theopusfuller

 

[Buddy Greenfield]

I don’t know in the millions, but if everyone is linking to that thread from whatever internet avenue, then you are all helping each other possibly. It would be good if someone that had a site could make a nice catalogue page and feature everyone’s wares. Something that attracts other Indie minded and has variety.

-Thanks-

 

[Scoopicman]

Bird, that's a very interesting strategy that Nina is using. I don't want to always be giving my stuff away, but I have learned that you have to give some to get some. You may remember the 100 DVD giveaway I had? It generated a lot of interest and put the movie on some maps.

Another great example is Andrew Kramer's After Effects website, videocopilot.net Over there, he started out by doing free tutorials. Over the years, I've watched his product line grow, as the traffic increased. I'm guessing that he sells a lot. Again, that is a niche, but if he released his own feature, I'm sure scores of people would buy it to see what kind of work he would produce.

There are others, like Sonnyboo, that generate traffic in similar ways. He offers form links and free music. Though I haven't, yet, I have thought about offering music tracks and tidbits, in order to bring in traffic.

It’s great to see a collection like that. You are clearly someone
who spends money to support your fellow filmmaker. Do you think
you are the rule or the exception? I feel you are the exception. I
hope I’m wrong.

I'll bet FilmJumper's collection is pretty interesting. Yeah, I think we are exceptions, but I think it makes us better filmmakers/writers by taking the pulse of our peers and comparing notes. Definitely, check out the work of other people. It's cool to see forumites get excited over indie movies in a picture.

 

[Buddy Greenfield]

Scoopicman,

I keep hovering over The Black Crystal on ebay, but can’t I just throw the bucks your way for a DVD burn of it? (Or I’ll take a VHS if you have one, I don't care) It’s not going to put you over the top, but it seems bad form not to go through you if I can.

I have always admired Sonnyboo for helping people with the free stuff on his site, Scott Spears and Filmy (no doubt), and of course Indie too. Besides all around good character, helping people learn is a hell of a marketing tool. Kramer needs to get some kind of Indie award if there is such a thing.

-Thanks-

 

[ad2478]

The thread is going really well...the only thing because of which i am feeling sad is that few of my questions are still unanswered

Hope the little boy will get his answers

 

[bird]

Bird, that's a very interesting strategy that Nina is using. I don't want to always be giving my stuff away, but I have learned that you have to give some to get some. You may remember the 100 DVD giveaway I had? It generated a lot of interest and put the movie on some maps.

Yep, I certainly do! I was a happy beneficiary of "Exile"! You have always been most generous to us folks (with everything from behind the scene tutorials to the finished work)) and we very much appreciate it. It's a wonderful piece and I honestly think it will get you a plethora of new opportunities. I can hardly wait to see some more of the merchandising/marketing your foreign markets inspire. Love the artwork from Japan you posted elsewhere.

The thread is going really well...the only thing because of which i am feeling sad is that few of my questions are still unanswered

Hope the little boy will get his answers

I looked through the thread and found just two questions from you. I'm afraid I can't be very helpful.

After reading all this healthy discussion i think if i make a conclusion that "A good film + Good Marketing" is the answer so i am not wrong .

AM i ?

Nope, you're not wrong.

Can you kindly tell me few sites like those? and do they give reviews free of cost? And are these sites devided according to genre also? like one site for reviews of horror films, one for comedy??

I'm sorry, I cannot answer this. I would bet those peeps with far more experience will pipe up.

 

[2001 Productions]

If anyone is interested, I'm always up for a trade.

I think this is a great idea, Mike! I'd love to trade work with you or anyone else on here that's interested.

Info about mine is available here: http://2001productions.com/buy.aspx

Maybe should be a sticky thread or something?

 

[Filman]

How to sell a movie?

I used to go into a movie store with no idea what to look for, but
I noticed that I could judge based on the cover if I would be satisfied
or not.

When I now think about it I think there are three things that can
convince me. Two of them are not for the film maker to decide when
he plans his project (big stars, awards). But the third thing that
convinces me is the plot.

Meaning: with a small budget I am a potential customer if the
plot is interesting, even if there are no big names or awards to
convince me about the product.

Another thing: I wouldn't talk about making GOOD MOVIES so
much. Interesting movies, seductive concepts...

 

[SyneRRR]

The 'Average Joe' Likes Explosions, Cars, and Cleavage. Now if you want the average Joe to spend $10 on your film you have to make a horribly simple Ferrari mini Uzi cleavage fest. or you can make an extremely thought provoking trailer that is Interesting maybe only to minorities, but if you don't want to go Hollywood your going that way anyway, so you post your trailer to YouTube or Stage 6 or wherever, then when you get a Fanbase which is actually interested you get them to trust you post videos of behind the scenes work but don't be pretentious and " Overly Professional "
then when you gain your fan's trust go through a distribution deal with FilmBaby or any other distribution company of your choice, and voila your loving adoring fans buy the DVD and tell all their trusting friends and the cycle continues.

 

[2001 Productions]

My friend who's worked at a video store forever says the biggest renters are movies with one or more of the following on the cover: guns, women in bikinis, and sharks.

He said they had one movie in stock that had all three on the cover. They had to order more copies because it was constantly out. And the irony was, there was no shark in the actual movie!

 

[aceofspades70]

^^^funny^^^

 

[danjfiore]

My friend who's worked at a video store forever says the biggest renters are movies with one or more of the following on the cover: guns, women in bikinis, and sharks.

He said they had one movie in stock that had all three on the cover. They had to order more copies because it was constantly out. And the irony was, there was no shark in the actual movie!

That's damn hilarious.

But I do think cover art has a lot to do with it. Major studio films have the most boring cover designs because all they care about is that people recognize who's in them first and foremost. Since we small-time guys rarely get big or even mid-level name actors, that won't work.

If you know a graphic designer, artist, etc. I suggest you ask for some favors.

In fact, I just found this link today for Inglourious Basterds. Say what you want about the film itself, but imagine you had no idea who anyone in the film was and you had no idea who Tarantino was. Would you be more enticed to buy the movie with the cover design they are actually using on the DVDs, or would you be more likely to buy the DVD if it had one of these as the cover: http://www.slashfilm.com/2010/02/16/cool-stuff-the-lost-art-of-inglourious-basterds/

 

[Scoopicman]

Those are some awesome posters!

Yep, I certainly do! I was a happy beneficiary of "Exile"!

As with THE AWAKENING, I gave about 35 of those EXILEs away. However, I was referring to the "Big TERRARIUM Promo," which was 100 copies. While that is a lot to give away, it seemed to be an effective threshold for getting the attention of distributors, festivals, etc. When you think about how small the film community circles can be, it's not that hard to thrust your work into the collective subconscious of the industry.

You have always been most generous to us folks (with everything from behind the scene tutorials to the finished work)) and we very much appreciate it. It's a wonderful piece and I honestly think it will get you a plethora of new opportunities. I can hardly wait to see some more of the merchandising/marketing your foreign markets inspire. Love the artwork from Japan you posted

Wow, thankyou! : That means a lot to me.

I think this is a great idea, Mike! I'd love to trade work with you or anyone else on here that's interested.

Info about mine is available here: http://2001productions.com/buy.aspx

You're on!! PM on the way.

 

[sonnyboo]

my opinions

So, in my opinion, the issue that needs to be discussed here is what do we do once the film is finished.

For all you new filmmakers out there, for all you filmmakers who have been at this for years, how do you make someone give a damn about the film you have just completed. How do you make them interested enough to invest their time and money to purchase your dvd from your website and sit down and watch it!?

There are several schools of thought. There is the SUNDANCE DREAM version where you hold back your feature like it was a precious commodity and send it out for 6-12 months on a festival run, hoping for a distributor to see it and buy it. In the 1990's, this was the way Quentin Tarantino, Kevin Smith, Robert Rodrigez, Richard Linklater, and a host of others got discovered and started their careers. Unfortunately, this path is out of vogue. Unless your "indie film" is $3-6 million with several name stars, it has little to no chance of festival to distribution success, although there are exceptions, but there are a lot less of those than 15 years ago.

The other path is to try to go straight to for distributors. The DIRECT TO VIDEO market was once a thriving, amazing business. Not so much anymore. NETFLIX and RED BOX have decimated the business plan. Where they once needed 3,000 copies of your indie title for BLOCKBUSTER, they now know that there is minimal demand and with a network like NETFLIX, they only need 25-50 copies to satisfy the demand for an entire country. Plus bad user reviews will prevent the title from being sold or rented.

Finally that leaves the "Do-It-Yourself" route. Selling your own DVD's is an arduous and time consuming task. The ultimate example of this is TROMA and Lloyd Kaufman. It's a full time job and it's non-stop. It means selling your wares at all times in any way possible, IF you intend to make any money at it. Selling online is okay, but the real money is made selling in person at conventions, booths, and vendor tables at every chance you get. Glad handing and personal relationships are what make the significant difference between someone looking or buying.

There are others, like Sonnyboo, that generate traffic in similar ways. He offers form links and free music.

It doesn't hurt. Good will goes a long way. 1 out of 10 visitors will watch a movie of mine, 1 out of 100 will buy something. I average about $120 NET a month in DVD sales from Amazon directly linked to my site and the downloads.

 

[Scoopicman]

Kind of off the subject, but since some movie trading occured in this thread, I wanted to post an update. Today was an awesome mail day....

A huge thankyou to Directorik and 2001Productions! On top of that, I got a couple of free Asian flicks, for last year's subscription to Fangoria magazine. The fact that they all came on the same day was very coincidental.

Okay, I watched DARK CRIMES and thought it was really cool - a dark noir, with lots of twists and high production value. Good acting, too.

MIND OF THE CIRCLE was a nice flashback to the days of super 8mm films and it also had its share of twists.

SOMEWHERE ELSE was shot and edited on 16mm, which really made it look like a 70's film. The acting was pretty strong and it felt like a "real" feature, as opposed to a guerrilla effort.

I also watched Mick's two demo DVDs and was very impressed with the 20 minute short about astronaut Alan Bean.

Now, I watched all of these............today! Just to be a pig, I put in R-POINT and watched some of that. Granted, I got nothing else done.

 

[2001 Productions]

Talk about a movie marathon!

Glad you liked my stuff. I'm in LA at the moment but will check out yours when I get back.

 

[Luci]

You're quite right that this is THE question we all need to answer!

One mistake indie filmmakers commonly make is trying to sell their film to other indie filmmakers. The notion that there are 200,000 people making indie films, and if we all purchased from each other we'd have 24 million, is flawed when you look at the breakdown:

200,000 want say $100,000 each to make their film = $20,000,000,000
200,000 willing to buy one dvd a month = $24,000,000
= huge shortfall

There are millions of people on this planet who spend thousands of dollars each year on entertainment. They might not seek out "indie" films, but if they are really into, say, hip hop, they will watch a movie that involves hip hop. So long as they hear about it.

The key is to be clear about who will love your film - not the whole world, but the niche that it services.

I don't actually think the issue is about "quality" - there are plenty of snorefest Hollywood films that still make money despite bad reviews. And low budget film quality didn't stop Clerks from being a cult hit.

The issue is marketing. People can't watch an indie film if either a) it's not available to them, or b) they've never heard of it.

We actually live in an age of incredible opportunity. The online space makes it far cheaper and easier to let people know about our films than ever before. Accessibility issues have largely disappeared, as you can make your film available for purchase, download, or streaming online. Digital distribution annihilates distribution costs, and there are fewer middle men expenses.

But, it's no point yelling about your film to the wrong people. Indie filmmakers are bombarded by requests by other indie filmmakers, and we're all broke!

As a first step, you've got to work out WHO will like your film. Once you've identified that, all efforts should be about getting the film in front of them, and making money out of it.

I believe this should begin BEFORE you make the movie. Bring a micro audience into the fold, as TheOpusFuller mentioned - blog your filmmaker journey so that these small but devote fans get an additional experience, are familiar with your story, and can become your greatest supporters.

There are some films that are being funded by their fans - The Age of Stupid, The Cosmonaut, Biracy - and others that already have financing for their film, but are selling membership or merchandising to fans right from the beginning - Fandom.

One argument is to stop thinking all about 'selling your film', and think of what else an audience member can want from a filmmaker. People can benefit by feeling close to the filmmaker/filmmaking process - hence a membership that gives them access to behind the scenes material as it happens. Develop a relationship with this core target audience. This may be a small initial fanbase, but if you start it up during pre-production, and have 1-2 years to grow it before your film is even completed, then when you launch you know a lot about who your audience really is, where to reach them, and can engage them to help spread the word.

Paranormal Activity only got a distribution deal after 1 million people 'demanded' to see the film online. This was thanks to a smart marketing & social media strategy - not big bucks.

This relationship building doesn't have to be "online", you can also create buzz in the real world. Ink is a good example of a film that engaged their local community and used that as a base to build buzz for in cinema screenings, whilst simultaneously selling the film internationally online. They actually had sales go up when their film was pirated.

There's a lot more I could say here, but I feel a bit like I'm repeating myself, as I've case studied these films and more on my blog. Lots of exciting possibilities. Still takes hard work, but it's not impossible.

My ears are still open to new ideas though, so please keep the conversation happening

 

[wheatgrinder]

I was talking with a non filmic friend of mine he suggested that content could be limited by viewer choice..
For example if we were looking at "viloent" content.. , a parent bought MOVIE A , could play it in "PG mode" and the kids could all watch, but if the kids were in bed the parents could watch it in "R Mode"

As whole owners of everything from the script to distribution we have much more flexibility do do some thing like this, but do it to our ADVANTAGE.

Imagine how this idea could be applied to DIFFERENT aspects of the content.


Certainly the baser appetites can be exploited this way..

• Horror movies where you pay MORE for higher "gore level" releases.
• Movies with increasing levels of nudity (porn?)
• ...

moving on to the appetites of higher mammals

• Entry level movie could have abbreviated plots, or fewer sub plots.
• Back story could be increased for more money
• Less or More special effects

In summation I guess the idea is to take the "bonus material" concept and INTEGRATE it into the entire process, so rather than bonus material being the cutting room floor sweepings, the BEST content is saved for the PREMIUM viewer..

 

[2001 Productions]

Wow. I hope you're just kidding, wg.

A film is - or should be - a work of art. You experience it in the form that its creator intended. If you don't like the nudity in a Michelangelo painting, don't hang it in your house. There isn't a version with Speedos -- well, maybe there is. He's public domain, after all...

If a filmmaker wants his work changeable according to the whims of each individual consumer, that's one thing. But I can totally see a distributor adopting such a model for everything, like it or not. And that scares me.

This, by the way, is why I NEVER watch movies on broadcast TV. The censorship and commercial interruptions are an ABOMINATION!

 

[wheatgrinder]

This thread seems to be mostly about getting your movie seen, I'm simply proposing a new distribution model, just call it a thought experiment if you want.

Your bringing alot of baggage to the discussion, your focused on the "negative" censorship thing.. and don't tell me how your mother sat you in from of the Black And White TV for seven hours a day, while she sipped gin and tonics with the mailman.. oh wait, thats me! nevermind... (Dr Freud is on the job, so watch out!)

Seems to me consumers are actively "free editing" content today. The DVR at my house is used for more than just skipping commercials, the DVD remote gets used for more then menu selections. This really isn't new.. its just easier.. people do this withe printed materials all the time..

... but as usual, I digress..

The key to the idea is that it IS the filmaker who decides what content is reserved for viewers who are willing to pay the premium.

If you saw a decent movie on youtoob, you might be tempted to buy the DVD for the extended features, but if you knew you would get MORE movie, more of the filmmakers vision, more scares, or screams, or sex, then youd be much more willing to pay for the DVD..


If the filmmaker has control, and is producing product viewers want, then the viewers will do LESS selective editing, and everyone wins!

All this doesn't matter when you have a captive audience in a theater.. but I think thats a completely different market, not what most of the conversation in this thread has been about. DVD sales is the bottom line that can got right to the "filmmakers" pocket.. distribution is just about driving DVD sales and merchandise..

 

[Utopia]

I think the answer to the original question is good promotion and marketing.

You can't beat a 300 million dollar promo campaign.

I also heard somewhere there is a rule that you have to hit someone 3 time for them to remember your movie's name and want to go see it.

How many times have you seen an Alice and Wonderland trailer?

Get your internet ad posted on the homepage of You-tube..

Go on as a guest on Jay Leno and David Letterman.

Or get your movie endorsed by Oprah and attend the academy awards next year.

That seems like the correct orders of magnitude to answer your question.

But, festivals is the best bet for an indie film. Then somehow get nominated as best short film at the oscars and you're in.