Varicam HD offline workflow?

sonnyboo said:

Okay, I'm interested in finding out how to organize the post workflow for a Panasonic Varicam 24P HD shoot, doing an offline to miniDV or DVCAM/DVCPRO, and conforming back to HD.

I'd be using Avid Xpress Pro HD, but I want to do my offline edit from DV, then ONLINE in full HD.

I've heard of this being done, but I need to know the specifics of how tomake my timecode on the DV tapes match and conform back to the 24P timecodes of the HD tapes.

The Panasonic deck does have synch timecode out to the DVCAM deck, but how can that work with one being in 24P and the other at 29.97?

Any ideas?

Click to expand...

1) You don't necessarily need to go back/forth to MiniDV. You can write your offline files in any format you like to a hard drive or a data DVD. So, you can factor out all of the hocus pocus with 29.97 and MiniDV.

2) Some of the promotional brochures for Varicam explain how they write 24p as 29.97 with "advanced pulldown". There is probably a way to go back/forth to miniDV in an offline/online scenario as you describe, but why bother when you can just write it all to a $250 firewire drive for your later online conform.

3) You would probably save money and time by just cutting in 720/24p anyway, most new PC and Mac boxes can handle the DVCPRO 720/24p codec fine, if you are worried about compression you can offline compressed and then online later uncompressed or with another codec. Also, you simplify your conform when both your offline and online are done in 24p. When you go back and forth between 29.97 your cuts will be +/- one frame and you will have to re-decide exactly where you want your cuts.

Note: by 24p I am really saying "23.98" if you plan on going back/forth to NTSC MiniDV or you make NTSC DVD's.

We had to do this with No Place.

The advice we were given was to transfer to Digibeta for the offline.

Panasonic has a framerate converter which transfers the information across and deals with the frame difference. (Which I think is built into the new decks - used to be a separate unit)

It's not as complicated as it seems because in reality even at 24fps, the camera records all 29 frames and then tags the 24 that it's going to use --

I'd give you more info on it, but I wasn't the tech head in out business, and what I've given you I picked up whilst other members of the team where running around like headless chickens.

What I do remember is that the transfer between HD and Digi-beta was the most expensive part of the production, costing about $28,000 in cash money. (HD deck hire was about $1000 a day, at the time)

A big expense, but worth it -- the danger of not getting this part right is that the timecodes don't match, so when you do your online you end up having to match everything by eye -- nasty experience, not one I'd care to do again.

You might also want to consider switching FCP for the edit -- it's set up to deal specifically with Panasonic formats and you might find the investment in kit outweighed the cost of preparing the footage for use in avid.

I just talked to a editor buddy who cut on an AVID system using Varicam footage down converter to Mini-DV. He was terrified that it was going to be a nightmare, but he saved a CMX EDL on his AVID which was imported into FInal Cut Pro and the EDL conversion program (I don't know if it's part of FCP or a third party program) and the on-line was seemless.

Scott

EDIT: I discovered they didn't go to Mini-DV, but S-VHS for the VITC time code. 3/15/06

scottspears said:

I just talked to a editor buddy who cut on an AVID system using Varicam footage down converter to Mini-DV. He was terrified that it was going to be a nightmare, but he saved a CMX EDL on his AVID which was imported into FInal Cut Pro and the EDL conversion program (I don't know if it's part of FCP or a third party program) and the on-line was seemless.
Scott

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Scott: The infamous CMX EDL is a format of last resort, in my opinion - it's the thing that will work no matter what, but you will lose information about effects, etc.
Clive: Ouch, double ouch! It sounds like you hired the deck for the whole production.
Sonny: All of this stuff is a non issue with FCP5 Studio, although it sounds like you're set up for Avid.

Clive: Ouch, double ouch! It sounds like you hired the deck for the whole production.

Click to expand...

Nope, that's what it cost to bounce the camera masters to digibeta. (and that was at a discounted rate!)

This was three years back, when the technology was fresh out the box.

You've also got to remember that pretty much all production equipment costs twice as much in the UK as it does in the states. The dollar price and sterling price are ususally identical.

We got caught out because the software that flags up the frames on the early varicams was buggy, so when we transfered the first set of tapes the timecode info got trashed. That created a lot expensive problems further down the, plus 72 hours without sleep, fixing the problems in online.

similar question

I have a similar problem. I'm about to cut a short.

The footage was shot with a Panasonic Varicam, the stock was DVCPro HD AJP126LP.

I was hoping to rent the Panasonic AJHD1200a deck with the IEEEE 1394 interface card, and maybe the deck would downconvert the HD material into DV so I can digitize it in my FCP 5.0.4. in DV compression, since I only have a GRAID drive, (500gigs).

If this is possible (which I think it is) what kind of sequence shall I set to cut: DV 24 or 23.98, considering that we're going filmout?

Well, we'll first online on HDCam SR, then make a film print.

What do I need to do?

vstm10 said:

I have a similar problem. I'm about to cut a short.

The footage was shot with a Panasonic Varicam, the stock was DVCPro HD AJP126LP.

I was hoping to rent the Panasonic AJHD1200a deck with the IEEEE 1394 interface card, and maybe the deck would downconvert the HD material into DV so I can digitize it in my FCP 5.0.4. in DV compression, since I only have a GRAID drive, (500gigs).

If this is possible (which I think it is) what kind of sequence shall I set to cut: DV 24 or 23.98, considering that we're going filmout?

Well, we'll first online on HDCam SR, then make a film print.

What do I need to do?

Click to expand...

How long is your short? You have a 500 Gig drive. If it's under 10 minutes and your shoot ratio is under 10, you should be able to cut it in HD directly with room to spare on the drive. Otherwise, yes, downconvert to 23.98 DV and cut an offline version and conform later.

I'd recommend cutting in 23.98, even if you are planning a later filmout. If I'm not mistaken your DVCPRO material will already be in 23.98 natively. The lab that is doing your filmout will know how to conform your 23.98 HD material to true 24fps. 23.98 will ease the conversion between NTSC offline/HD online/NTSC DVD/whatever.