I'm almost finished my next script, a Horrror screenplay. I mean a Thriller. No, most likely a horror.

Can someone give me an industry definition between the two?

My script isn't horror like, say, "The Grudge", but it does contain supernatural elements.

Any help would be appreciated as I hesitate to cross-pollenate and use the cop out "horrror / thriller"

I don't know about the industry explanations, but I think horror shows, thriller implies, then shows later if at all.

horror shows, thriller implies

Nicely put!

For horror distributors/buyers, you call it a horror. For non-horror distributors/buyers, you call it a thriller. You get the picture. Target your film or screenplay.

I'm almost finished my next script, a Horrror screenplay. I mean a Thriller. No, most likely a horror.

Can someone give me an industry definition between the two?

My script isn't horror like, say, "The Grudge", but it does contain supernatural elements.

Any help would be appreciated as I hesitate to cross-pollenate and use the cop out "horrror / thriller"Well, this might get a debate going but here's what Hollywood says... I say Hollywood because I've talked to many many people in the industry and asked for their opinions and it always comes down to this...

Thrillers are REALITY based and Horrors are FANTASY or SUPERNATURALLY based. They can in fact include many if not all of the same structure and writing elements but the above is where they split into one another.

It is well known that the line has become super blurred... HALLOWEEN, HOSTEL and WOLFCREEK are classified as horror films yet in reality, they are thrillers because they are reality based. It's interesting to note however, that HALLOWEEN had just a "touch" of the supernatural element in it to make it a horror film i.e., Michael Myers never died...

THE NIGHTMARE ON ELM STREET is a real horror because of its supernatural element i.e., Freddy invading the dreams of teenagers.

Normally, when a film involves elements that can only be explained through the supernatural, it becomes a horror film...

Now that the line is so blurred these days... Everyone uses Horror/Thriller to explain their film IF the film is like HOSTEL or WOLFCREEK and is reality based.

A thriller is still a thriller and normally most of the best thrillers involve someone running away i.e., NORTH BY NORTHWEST or more recently, THE BOURNE IDENTITY although this line too has become super blurred...

Just like with computers and hardware, this stuff changes all the time as filmmakers create new hybrids... Take a look at GHOST... A love story/thriller/horror.

These days, it's perfectly okay to call it a "horror thriller."

filmy

I agree with indietalk. There are no "industry standard" definitions. Genre is a very fluid concept. Basically, how you classify your own film depends on what you or the person reading it feels like calling it.

To me, a thriller is more about action. There may be horrific or terrifying elements within the movie...but the action of the scenes is what is used to fuel the anxiety in the audience. Horror, in my opinion does not have to be based on some supernatural/fantasy concept. It simply has to convey a sense of doom, dread, or fear.

Normally, when a film involves elements that can only be explained through the supernatural, it becomes a horror film...


I dunno. Look at one of the most famous of horror movies: The Texas Chainsaw Massacre. That had nothing supernatural in it. In fact, the realism of it made it seem even more horror-ish.

I dunno. Look at one of the most famous of horror movies: The Texas Chainsaw Massacre. That had nothing supernatural in it. In fact, the realism of it made it seem even more horror-ish.

Well no offense but the question was:

Can someone give me an industry definition between the two?

Keyword phrase here... Industry definition.

Not what we "feel" is correct and not what horror films have evolved into. While I wholeheartedly agree that mainstream horror films have developed more into reality based foundations, there is a touch of the supernatural to even THE TEXAS CHAINSAW MASSACRE.

Definition of supernatural:

1. Of or relating to existence outside the natural world.
2. Attributed to a power that seems to violate or go beyond natural forces.
3. Of or relating to a deity.
4. Of or relating to the immediate exercise of divine power; miraculous.
5. Of or relating to the miraculous.

Supernatural doesn't have to mean ghosts, demons, etc... Supernatural is pretty much anything we experience OUTSIDE our normal, natural world.

I don't live next door to a family of cannibals... If I did, that could easily be considered supernatural. When killers keep coming back for more even though we've knifed them, shot them, etc., that's supernatural.

Hence, supernatural elements... Anything outside the norm or natural...

But again, I'm simply answering the original question which was the "industry definition" of horror and thriller as they apply to screenplays...

filmy

Thanks guys, I guess by concensus, I've written a horror script then...

Thanks guys, I guess by concensus, I've written a horror script then...

A thriller is a horror film, reclassified once it makes money. Think about it-The Sixth Sense...is that reality based? Nope. It's a horror film where a little boy sees dead people. But it made so much money, it turned into a suspense thriller to attract people who don't like (and frankly don't understand) horror. Same with Silence of the Lambs-that's a great HORROR film, but you would never know it. The Other's? Gee, we used to call that Gothic Horror. Not anymore. To hollywood, horror is either a brutal survival flcik or a slasher. And that's not right.

But again, I'm simply answering the original question which was the "industry definition" of horror and thriller as they apply to screenplays...

And the answer is that there isn't an industry definition.

And the answer is that there isn't an industry definition.Well, I won't debate it with you but trust me...

There is.

filmy

There are industry definitions, but I don't think filmmakers have to worry about it. Most of us don't like to label our films, anyway. My film played as a comedy in some fests, and a drama in others. Ask me which one it is, and I won't give you a straight answer. When someone asks, and you know what they are looking for, then you give them a label.

Well, I won't debate it with you but trust me...

I don't have to trust you. I work in the industry. And you'll find about as many different definitions of genres as you do on this board, with no more or less authority on the subject.

There is no central committee to decide these things. It's up to the individual viewer and the individual film. WB might market a film as a thriller that Paramount markets as a horror.

Again, there is no industry standard definition.

I don't have to trust you. I work in the industry. And you'll find about as many different definitions of genres as you do on this board, with no more or less authority on the subject.

There is no central committee to decide these things. It's up to the individual viewer and the individual film. WB might market a film as a thriller that Paramount markets as a horror.

Again, there is no industry standard definition.Wow... I'm talking about screenwriting and screenplays here and NOT films as THAT was the original question...

You don't have to trust me but if you write a screenplay and eventually have a meeting with an executive to talk about it, you'd better be prepared to discuss the genre AT LENGTH.

If you say it's a horror script, be prepared to discuss the supernatural elements.

If you say it's a thriller, be prepared to discuss how your screenplay will evoke anxiety and tension from an audience.

If you say it's a "horror thriller" be prepared to discuss both the above.

Don't take my word for it though... Just trying to help.

filmy

I went off-topic too (talking about films, not screenplays). :blush:

You don't have to trust me but if you write a screenplay and eventually have a meeting with an executive to talk about it, you'd better be prepared to discuss the genre AT LENGTH.

I've BEEN in discussions with executives, producers, agents, managers. When the genre of the script did come up, it certainly wasn't discussed at length.

No one has EVER asked me to justify the genre of the film. That's borderline absurd. And one of my meetings involved a script that I would call a "thriller" with supernatural elements in it.

At the screenwriting stage, I would think the genre definition would be very important. If you're commissioned to write a horror, you should know exactly what they want without asking what they mean by horror.

I went off-topic too (talking about films, not screenplays). :blush:

In terms of genre, there's not any difference between defining the genre of a script vs a movie. I happen to be talking about both, since genre applies to both.

At the screenwriting stage, I would think the genre definition would be very important. If you're commissioned to write a horror, you should know exactly what they want without asking what they mean by horror.

If you're commissioned to write a script, you're not going to know exactly what they want unless they tell you or you ask them. That has nothing to do with genre. If they say they want a horror film, that could mean a lot of things. Do they want The Grudge, or do they want Friday the 13th? Both are horror films but both are radically different in terms of style and how they scare you. It depends on the producer.

If you're commissioned to write a script, you're not going to know exactly what they want unless they tell you or you ask them. That has nothing to do with genre. If they say they want a horror film, that could mean a lot of things. Do they want The Grudge, or do they want Friday the 13th? Both are horror films but both are radically different in terms of style and how they scare you. It depends on the producer.
That's why filmy said, you have a meeting about the genre.

That's why filmy said, you have a meeting about the genre.

That's not what filmy is saying at all. He's saying there is a hard and fast "industry" definition of each genre, and your "horror" pitch had better have supernatural elements, and that there are lengthy discussions about why you've classified your movie in a certain genre.

None of that is true. If it were, then there wouldn't by any need to have a meeting about the genre. Once they told you it was a horror, that would be the end of it and you'd know exactly what to write. But that's ridiculous.

The problem I am encountering is the sale of a spec script in the Inktip world.

A wrong classification there will get me absolutely nowhere fast. It may be different in the film world, but when you have a dozen checkboxes to fill out, and you have to pick, a choice needs to be made.

Inktip has boxes to check which suggest a standard definition.

Incidentally, this is one of the biggest weaknesses of Inktip: My inability to classify my film or to 'check the boxes' correctly will piss off producers, not get my script noticed, etc. etc.

So now you know the context of my question.

That's not what filmy is saying at all. He's saying there is a hard and fast "industry" definition of each genre, and your "horror" pitch had better have supernatural elements, and that there are lengthy discussions about why you've classified your movie in a certain genre.

Hmmm. Is that what I said?

I don't recall saying that your horror script BETTER HAVE supernatural elements. I also didn't say there was a HARD and FAST industry definition of each genre...

I do remember saying that it is perfectly acceptable to call your screenplay a “horror thriller.” --Is that what you consider hard and fast?

I wasn't aware that I was going to have to give a history lesson here...

Horrors started out BEING horrors because of the supernatural element to them. Supernatural doesn't have to mean what we generally think of as supernatural i.e., ghosts, monsters, demons, zombies, wolfmen, vampires, etc...

A supernatural element can be as simple as Michael Myers not dying. In a more recent film, WOLF CREEK, the supernatural elements were the crater and everyone's watch not running anymore even though those elements were not fleshed out to any conclusion. The Australian Outback in and of itself can be supernatural if, for no other reason, than it is foreign to most audience members i.e., out of their natural world.

In HOSTEL, the supernatural element is the fact that people are selling people to be tortured... No witches, no goblins, LOL.

What I said was that generally speaking, horror screenplays are fantasy or supernaturally based. I also said that the lines have obviously become blurred but the fact remains that most good horror scripts have supernatural elements to them.

Granted, I've only optioned one screenplay (a thriller) and sold one screenplay (a horror thriller) so I'm not claiming to be the end-all expert as you seem to think I'm claiming to be. In addition to these screenplays, I've had too many meetings to count where I have IN FACT discussed genre at great length.

As a matter of fact, in the script I sold a few months ago, I've had several meetings as well as conference calls where several producers and I discussed the supernatural elements of my screenplay.

I also never said that you would have a meeting just to discuss the genre of your screenplay... I wouldn't go so far as to say that having a meeting about genre is absurd but genre does in fact come up.

In almost every meeting I've ever had (remember, too many to count), the meeting was with producers and execs that have already read the script. They already know what they think. Now they want to know what YOU think and you had better be able to discuss this AT LENGTH with them if you want to do business.

In these discussions, I've had to heavily discuss character arc, theme, supernatural elements, strong vs. weak first acts, subplots... You name it, I've discussed it and I've discussed it with some pretty big wigs over the years...

But you're ABSOLUTELY CORRECT in that I certainly cannot attest to your experiences within the subject matter as you cannot attest to mine but what I do know is this...

Once you tell a producer, director, or studio exec with some status what genre your screenplay is and you do sit down for a meeting, genre is not a dead horse (like this thread)... You need to be prepared to discuss and defend the genre you've selected for your screenplay.

All these people will discuss your script with you on the basis of genre... Some might want you to make it into something else (I've had this discussion too many times to count) i.e., some other genre while others might want you to increase other elements within the genre you've selected... Anything could happen and ANYTHING can be discussed in a meeting.

I also mentioned NOTHING about a pitch in my previous posts in this thread however, I can tell you that I have in fact pitched several times to studio execs and producers in Hollywood... A few of these screenplays have been in the horror genre and one of the first things I was asked was to discuss the supernatural elements...

In my first horror script, I too thought there were no supernatural elements since it was reality based. It was in fact, the producers that asked me to discuss the supernatural elements and it was in THAT discussion long ago that I was taught that supernatural doesn't necessarily have to mean ghosts, monsters, witches, vampires, etc...

I'll finish this dead horse with just one last caveat...

Hollywood professionals do talk genre. They expect you, the screenwriter, to absolutely be familiar with whatever genre your screenplay is. In fact, the more expert you are about that genre, the better because producers, directors, and studio execs WANT their screenwriters to be the experts INSTEAD of them.

filmy

Hmmm. Is that what I said?

I don't recall saying that your horror script BETTER HAVE supernatural elements. I also didn't say there was a HARD and FAST industry definition of each genre...

If you're having trouble recalling, then let me quote your previous posts on the subject.

"You don't have to trust me but if you write a screenplay and eventually have a meeting with an executive to talk about it, you'd better be prepared to discuss the genre AT LENGTH.

If you say it's a horror script, be prepared to discuss the supernatural elements."

And on whether or not there is a standard industry definition of "horror," you said:

"trust me...There is."

The simple fact that the people YOU'VE met with and the people I've met with differ on their interpretations of genre means that there is NO standard Hollywood definition of "horror." You can have a horror with no supernatural elements. It depends on the script, the writer, the producers.

Hollywood professionals do talk genre. They expect you, the screenwriter, to absolutely be familiar with whatever genre your screenplay is. In fact, the more expert you are about that genre, the better because producers, directors, and studio execs WANT their screenwriters to be the experts INSTEAD of them.

In the interest of ending this rather stupid back-and-forth, I will say that I agree with you that a writer MUST know what his story is, the tone, the style, the vision. That's not the same as being an expert on genre, but it does mean that the writer must be an expert on his own story. No question about it.

However, that really isn't this writer's problem. He's having to fill in boxes on Inktip asking him to narrow down the genre of his film to one supercategory and possibly several sub-categories. It's an inherent limitation of a site like Inktip. In my experience, writers tend to be overly broad with their genres, which is understandable but frustrating on the part of the producer/director looking for a specific kind of script.

I've had issues with this for years.. mainly with Blockbuster as they seem to put many horros in DRAMA!

Anyway, I think most of the mainstream thinks horror is a dirty word.

Me I think things are horror that most don't. I think Steven Spielberg's Jaws and War Of The Worlds are horror films. But what do I know. I think I mostly make horror, but I usually say thriller to get more people to watch them :lol:

In HOSTEL, the supernatural element is the fact that people are selling people to be tortured... No witches, no goblins, LOL.

I hadn't been paying attention to this thread, because I thought:

a) I knew the answer to the question
&
b) It had been covered in the first couple of postings

It turns out that neither is true: :huh:

So, I'd really like some clarification about the way some execs view the horror genre. In particular this idea that a supernatural element (the defining feature of a horror film) doesn't have to mean "supernatural" in the dictionary sense; it can just mean "something that trancends normal human behaviour in a horrific way." (That's my quote and I'm just fielding it as a way of illicting a clearer definition). Which now I think about it makes sense, slasher horror is about abherent human behaviour, not spooky stuff.

The reason I ask this is that if that is the case I could probably choose to re-genre my screenplay True as a Horror/Thriller; even though there is no dictionary definintion supernatural element - just people being really bad to each other (which strikes me as the very definition of natural human behaviour ;) ).

Oh, and by the way - I've learned stuff from both Bebblebrox and Filmy both here in this thread and in others over the years - You're both knowledgable, experienced guys. I think it's fair to say that as every exec is making this up as they go along, everyone's experience is going to be marginally different. Personally I think we all gain from having both perspectives. Now if you guys will hug in a manly fashion, I'm really interested in learning some more about this.

What Clive said.

When I read my screenplay, it doesn't "scare" me the way the Grudge did. It's much more sublte. It has supernatural elements: maybe it's just a different type of horror...

Horror lite? ;-)

I'm almost finished my next script, a Horrror screenplay. I mean a Thriller. No, most likely a horror.

Can someone give me an industry definition between the two?

My script isn't horror like, say, "The Grudge", but it does contain supernatural elements.

Any help would be appreciated as I hesitate to cross-pollenate and use the cop out "horrror / thriller"

Im hitting this thread a bit late. So forgive me if someone already said this.

but Horrors can be thrillers but thrillers are not always horror films.

:D

Actually i think I got that backwards :(