In Need Of Serious Advice

to the site!

Lots of good questions. You'll get some good answers here.

I am just a hobbyist, so I can't offer any meaningful answers to your questions. But I do want to say...Welcome to the site!

Welcome! You won't find a more helpful group of indies anywhere else on the 'web.

What do you want to be? Director? Director of Photography? Editor? Or an all around filmmaker(do everything)? Answering that question will help you decide what gear you should own. I would first go for some kind of editing gear because post can be a long drawn out process so renting editing gear will get costly.

You mention a lot of gear in you post and buying all of that could run you $10,000 and up. Maybe you could pick owning one or two things and renting the rest, like a camera and a tripod or a light kit and a shotgun mic. Not knowing how deep you pockets are, I can't say what's the best course.

Also, network with other filmmakers in your area and see what they have. You can pool your resources so nobody has to own all the gear and the debt that comes with that.

Scott

welcome!

All are good questions, I am going to 'attempt' to answer a few of them in a general tone, since filmmaking is for each person as part of their 'life' so take it as what it is from my suggestions

First, as you said, it is to market yourself, with short is always a great idea, but if you haven't done any before, then use this opportunity to shoot many short films to learn the craft and horn your skill. If you have shorts before, then use this opportunity to market yourself by submitting to film festivals, give it freely to everyone, etc... Selling shorts are harder to do because it is a limited distribution arena. You can however, have it on atomsfilm.com or other sites where you *might* get some profit out of it... Now, before submitting like crazy to these sites that will pay, go check them out and see what sort of genre or film they show would attract a lot of viewers, these will be the ones that would dictacte how quickly you would see a 'return' to bring you back to the black (in $ perspective)

As for what to invest? it's up to you, if you are going to shoot HD or HDV, then you have to think about the post-production, if you have a venue to edit your stuff with HD or HDV, then go for it, if not, drop back to miniDV or what Shaw/Clive has suggested using the DVcPro50 format... Personally, I would recommend the dvx100 and shoot it with good lighting and sound, then color process the video to have it's own aesthetic look. It would bring out a different feel and look that might help market yourself (depending what area you want to 'sell' yourself as).

I would say, find someone who owns the camera(s) and work with them by doing some test... And decide whom to work with, these people who own the equipment might know the equipment better than you buying them and asking your friends to help you out

As for sound and lighting, they are a must, a good lighting will help make your story or your visual become reality, a good sound helps increase the production value as well, so both are not something you want to skip out of. If you can't afford to buy sound/light kit, again find people in your area that have the expertise (note, don't just hire them, make sure they have the 'experience', just a reason is that you will find a lot of people that claimed they can do this and that, but at the set, they can't do a thing, and that would drop your production value). Perhaps pay them a minimal or ask them to do it volunteering the time, since this is a short film, usually many would do it for no cost as long as you feed them.

Pre-production is the most important part of the success of your shoot and it doesn't cost you anything by planning it right if you have everything organized ahead of time, you would have minimal disaster on your hand to deal with and also a more professional attitude for the cast/crew... Meaning, they will do a better job and help you more because they believe in your 'producing' skill. I have witnessed a lot of production here in town, many had people complaining this and that because of the director/producer didn't take their planning stage carefully and so everything is always in behind.

Remember, making a film is NOT about you, it's about the collaborative work that all the cast/crew working together to make your vision come true, if they failed to do a good job, you will get a lousy product and it's not because they don't want to, but you didn't set a good example for them to follow (there are exceptions to this rule). Particularly, these people are doing it volunteering their time, and if you tell them the shoot a project consist of 10 hours/day - 3 days shoot, they are 'expecting' a 10 hours/day - 3 days shoot, and they have to schedule things around it to accomodate you for those 3 days, hence, you might not be able to ask them to help out another day right then but have to schedule a pick-up day later the month or so... Be considerate and make sure they have plenty of drinks/food available at shoot, don't have heavy meal that after eating they'll be falling to sleep, but enough during the day they can go and munch...

I've heard of a shoot where director is asking everyone to chip in to get a pizza for lunch... *shrug* obviously many of the cast/crew on that shoot decided not to help the director anymore...

Once you spend money on the equipment (camera, lighting, sound) then you have to think about how to edit your piece (comes the computer, sound mixing, etc), and who can help you to operate these equipment... it will rack up, if you think this might be expensive route, like said earlier, find people who has the tools and work with them, learn to work in teams, this also will become a better experience to learn to collaborate. (afterall, most people who own the equipment knows how to operate them, like a DP would probably have or know of people that have lighting equipment to bring to the table, a lighting guy or a grip might know a good sound engineer to help out, etc).

In technical part my personal likeness: I like to shoot with a boom mic, I use beyerdynamic microphone, and a DIY bulb changer pole that subs for as a boom mic. I usually shoot with minidisc recorder with a mixer separately from the camera's mic but I retain the audio track from the cameras (yes I like to work with multiple cameras). The reason is simple if I don't slate or forgotten to slate, at least the camera's audio tracks can be used as a reference marker to sync up the sound recorded with my minidisc recorder.

Once the minidisc audio is layed on the stereo audio track of my NLE (in this case Premiere Pro), and a rough cut of the short is 'done', I will export several segment of the audio track and clean the audio up (so I don't have to clean a lot before hand, it can be done differently: clean it up all the audio and then sync it on post) For short film, I usually go sync it up first and then export the parts that need cleaning. I use Sony Soundforge and Noise Reduction, I downplay the background noise and tweak to make sure the audio is good. Then I lay 2 tracks of sound fx, and 2 tracks of music... Now, by working this way, I have a clean dialogue tracks, clean sound fx tracks and clean music tracks which means whenever I decided to replace the sound fx, or the music or the dialogue, it can be done very quickly.)

One thing I also do, which I wouldn't recomment... is since it is indie filmmaking, sometimes you can't get good audio, the background is gone but the dialogue suffered. In this case, I usually put a music track behind it to 'cover' the barely noticeable noise that no one would pay attention except for myself... I don't think this is good idea, but if I don't have time for ADR (bringing the actors back to do a clean dub of the dialogue), I would do that. otherwise, ADR is a must.

I am sure others will provide more info on this, but this is how I would suggest/and my basic work flow. SonnyBoo Guru has some good web video tips on editing and such, should check them out also.

Bottom line, if you plan to use this short film to showcase yourself and you don't have anyting (equipment wise), best to do is to invest in hiring good people with equipment (free or paying them a minimal) and get things rolling.

Johnny

Don't try to do the whole thing yourself.. get a team together, and deligate tasks. Also, you might find people with equipment who want to help you, and then you won't have to buy or rent everything.

Welcome, and good luck.

Wow, thanks alot guys. That was more than I ever expected and I thank you for that. As to Scott's question I would like to direct first and formost. And thanks again to MDIFilm, a fellow Clevelander none the less, everything you said makes so much sense and I will use as much as I can. And I do have a very reliable group of people that will help me on my project. I've worked with them all before and think we're ready to collaborate on something special.
And on a side note it seems like theres alot of emphasis on the editing process. Not just on this thread but on the forum in general. I find this fascinating. It's definantly changed my outlook on the process.

It's true.. If you have the BEST footage ever shot in the history of film, and it's not edited properly, the film will suck...

The editor takes all the pieces of wood you give them and turns it into an Ark.

btw, here in Cleveland, we do have a monthly meeting going on, next one is Jan 22 at The Hyacinth Lofts and we got a great speaker guest, she is an entertainment attorney and will talk about intellectual property for film and music, basically, ask all you want for free at that day, if you want more info, email me privately at johnny@mdifilm.com

Also if you need to know who has what, let me know, I know a few good people who worked on A Joker's Card (www.mdifilm.com/joker) that you can look and see if these people could help you

Johnny Wu

Ok so I've read extensively on the forums as well as what you all have said and I've come to some conclusions...

• I would like to own my own equipment, even though it is unneccessary at some points, I'd preferably like to have it b/c having equipment 24/7 seems invaluable for extracariculiar experimentation but things may change and money I think I can get I might not be able too.
• The camera that will take me the farthest into the future is probably the Panasonic AG-HVX200. Although I'm not quite sure of what all of its features do I know that I can shoot on true HD, and DV and it has all the necessary features like the 3 ccd's, 24fps, 16:9, and am I right or wrong on saying It has a slow mo feature. And would it be waisted money if I did not use the 4gb and 8gb cards b/c they are an extra $650-2200. Anyway it is expensive but so is the XL2 which if I'm going that route is just a tad cheaper anyway. And it also seems like the XL1 is out dated but please correct me if I'm wrong.
• Post is vital so a good computer and software is a must, preferably Apple if I can get one (I am comfortable using Apple), right? what do I need in terms of hardware and software?
• As far as light and sound I have that covered so all thats left are the big ones.

And again thank you guys and MDIfilm I will get back to you. I have heard about the meetings and am interested in attending.

Personally, I would suggest to anyone just starting out to get a cheap $200 Mini-DV off ebay with mic input and headphone output, a cheap shotgun mic like a ATR-55, and a few worklights, clamp lights, make a shiny board, etc.

With this minimal investment, make a few cheap short shorts, like 1-2 minutes. Take your time, plan them out, light it right, shoot it on full manual mode, and try some shots. You wont be perfect on your first time out I guarantee it. Once you've made a short, post it here at IT for some feedback. Get better. When you're good enough, you'll know. Take your 5 minute short you have now, make sure it is really polished, then you will make it on mini-dv or you'll decide to upgrade. But at least you will know how to handle the new tech, with all its bells and whistles, and you'll understand the whole process not just the production side.

Im sorry. I probably should have mentioned that I have been making shorts and experimenting for some time now, on DV for the last four or so years and who knows before that. Um... I'm kind of critical about my work so theres only one short I'm really proud of. I'll try to post it for you to view but this was just a learning tool to so it does contain unlicensed music and some of it is a little sub par but there is alot of it I'm happy with and since than I think I've matured alot mentally and directorally hence my wish to learn which equipment will make my films look as good as they can. I feel like and idiot not knowing alot about equipment but my good ol' camcorder and mom and dad's computer were good enough so I never found the need.

Well if you have all the experience that you feel you're ready to block and direct actors, create shot lists and shooting schedules, etc. and know how to shoot on full manual mode with manual focus, exposure, white balance, etc. And you have a solid grip on lighting...

Then comes the practical side of filmmaking which is ROI. To me, the HVX at a $5500 street price plus the P2 cards is pretty high to make a short or a few shorts. I mean, realistically, most shorts dont find distribution outside of self distribution. But maybe you're one of the lucky ones who has good support or who is smart enough to have a good job and saves his money. If thats the case, and money is truly no object, then yes I would say either the Panny or the Canon are probably going to be good choices. Of course you'll need a really beefy comp to edit it, but again, if cost is no problem, then great go for it.

But I would caution you from thinking film is too expensive for you. You could easily make a 16mm 5-10 minute short for between $1000 and $2000. But yeah, not much room for error there, whereas with digital you can truly see what you get and can grade it in HD in post.

Also, dont discount renting for bigger shoots, it can save you money. The trouble is, insurance.

There have been a lot of interesting post here, but I'll throw my 2 cents worth in.

I think buying gear is a tricky decision; especially camera purchases when the industry is in flux about formats. I think if you've the money to invest in fully pro cameras then that's not so bad, but once you get down into the borderlands of (XL2, PD170a, JVC101E, Z1 and AG-HVX100/200) then any decision you make is going to involve making a prediction about which way the industry is going. The big question at the moment is "Is HDV the way forward?" And the truth is that nobody really has the answer. The AG-HVX200 has got to look like a good bet, simply because it comes with a good package of SD options, which are tried and tested. Personally, I'm still unsure and for the time being I still tend to go with the rent/borrow the best camera you can afford.

I think Scott is right when he says that post production equipment is going to be your best investment. I'd suggest a dual processor G5 mac with Final Cut Pro HD on it. This piece of equipment will take you from test edits all the way through to full professional feature production; whatever else changes FCP is becoming the main editing platform of the industry.

I always used to get other people to cut my films and as a director I now regret that. I'm just going through the process of learning proper editing technique on FCP and I've got to say that learning editing is a good skill set for any director. In fact I'd go as far as saying that as a screenwriter I've gained real insights into my next film just by learning what's possible in post.

I think if your ambitions are directorial then finding and buddying up with a good DOP with their own kit is the way forward. If you can find a DOP with a good camera, a good sound recordist with their own kit, then you have the core of a production team and if you're bringing scripts, directorial talent and post production to the mix good things can happen. I made several short and a feature that way and only now am I going down a more self suffieicent route.

Anyhow, good luck with your projects.

I agree with Clive on the Final Cut Pro HD. If you invest in it now, you'll be good well into the future. They upgrade regularly and enough to keep up with industry standards.

As far as helpful experience goes, starting in editing is extremely beneficial. I worked in production, but mostly was an editor for about four years before I shot my first real short. Producing from an editing point of view will save you time and money and you'll be sure to get exactly what you need. I can look at the script and storyboard it almost exactly how it will look in the finished project. This means that I can figure out my shot list and shooting order for our days very efficiently and I know when I have everything. It also helps that my DP is my business partner and he also spent four years editing with me. We can see the movie very clearly before we shoot it.

We use an XL2 and love it very much. I've seen many other projects on this site that use many different DV and mini-DV cameras and all create beautiful, film-like products. Film look will always be an industry standard, so if you can make your DV look like film, then you've got the right camera and the right DP.

We also produce some television shows and what I was told about three years ago was that the FCC was going to make HD broadcast mandatory by 2006. Well, here we are and they've pushed the date back to 2009 now. So, in 2009, if you want to broadcast something, it will have to be in HD... unless they push it back again. I'm pretty sure they've made it mandatory that new televisions and monitors being manufactured have to have an HD tuner in them or something like that. Not real sure on the specifics, but the bottom line is that someday soon HD will be the format and people spending lots of money on an HD TV are going to want to watch things that are in HD. Sony just announced the first 20 titles they're going to release on HD blue-ray DVDs. So, keep all that in mind when buying a camera I guess.

dylan61 said:

We also produce some television shows and what I was told about three years ago was that the FCC was going to make HD broadcast mandatory by 2006. Well, here we are and they've pushed the date back to 2009 now. So, in 2009, if you want to broadcast something, it will have to be in HD... unless they push it back again. I'm pretty sure they've made it mandatory that new televisions and monitors being manufactured have to have an HD tuner in them or something like that. Not real sure on the specifics, but the bottom line is that someday soon HD will be the format and people spending lots of money on an HD TV are going to want to watch things that are in HD. Sony just announced the first 20 titles they're going to release on HD blue-ray DVDs. So, keep all that in mind when buying a camera I guess.

Click to expand...

I wonder sometimes if this kind of pushing the technology will be a good thing or bad- HD, being the new messiah of the shooting formats is still pretty expensive unless you can find the money.

I spent 2005 learning how to edit for the main reason (as Clive touched upon) that... I'll use a metaphor:
Open up a new book and read the last chapter first- then start at the beginning. Knowing the ultimate resolution gives you a good view of how it's going to get there as you go through the narrative.

Applying that back to filmmaking, try focussing on skill-sets backwards:
-Marketing/Distribution
-Post Production (Editing, foley, scoring)
-Production (Camera, Sound recording, performances, locations, lighting, framing/directing)
-Pre-production (Planning, writing, crewing)

I do the same things with scripts, or pretty much anything. Think of the final resolution then work your way backwards.
First, figure out the idea.
When you know how to sell the product, it's because you've figured out what people will like about the idea.
Then, using your post production knowledge to understand your limitations and shortcuts, you'll be able to pre-plan your story, and base pre-prodcution on the needs of post.
The production part is the only part I think is PURELY something people just have to go out and do in order to learn. You can read all you like, but "School isn't work" "Training only prepares you for life" and all that other razz-mujazz.

As for equipment, I say work as hard as you can to own it, because the creative freedom of being able to pitch your own set at any time (even in your own home!) is the greatest tool to ever learn from!

One good thing I see around Austin about folks who own their own camera is that they can get a DP job on another project faster than someone who relies on renting equipment. Now, of course you are subject to the whim of what the producers want to shoot on (if they want film and you own DV or HDV, you won't get the job). And this assumes that you'd want to continue to work as crew on other films to continue to learn and gain contacts.

Poke

Again guys thanks for your help. It's been more than overwhelming. Um... again after reading more on the forums I'm looking more forward to the collaboration instead of trying to do everything myself, which now thinking about it seems silly but thats how I've done it forever so how can you blame me. I am definantly switching my priorites:

• Finding a more experienced crew
• Investing in a good computer and editing software(Mac G5...thanks clive and dylan)
• Go into a preproduction frenzy to make sure everythings as professional as possible

Not really a list of priorities I guess as much has a to do list but It'll do.

Thanks so much again to anyone who has already helped and/or is going to help

If you are going to learn FCP, I suggest you also invest in this book.

Final Cut Pro editing by Diane Weyland

It's the dog's licky bits. I'm working thorugh it now. I thought I was pretty skilled with FCP (in a noodling about kind of way) until I started working my way through this book. It comes with a DVD of lessons that you work though and I can't say enough good things about it.