You've probably already heard about this, but I've been away from the forum for a bit I couldn't see if this had mentioned.

If you are thinking of getting a new machine in the near future (especially a Mac) you may wish to wait.

I was going to buy a new Mac, but a PC guy I know said I should wait until Apple go over to Intell Processors as it is 'likely' that as well as being better machines it's possible that they may have the ability to be 'booted up' to run on either OSX or Windows operating systems. Two machines for the price of one.

Just something to think about. If anyone knows anything more 'concrete' about this subject I'd be happy to hear. Apple seem to be very quiet about it (especially on their site) they probably don't want to effect current sales.
Steven

The development intel based power macs (according to rumor) will boot XP, but the video is broken and funky. I would be surprised if this issue isn't resolved by the time it comes to market...apple won't let XP play on their hardware. They have always preached the concept of controlling the "whole" user experience. This is from when the user opens the box until they remove the machine from their desk and dispose of it. That and every thing inbetween. For now, the test boxes are mostly just rebranded off the shelf PC's, but I'm sure that will change. I personally don't blame them. I've watched the development of windows over the years and have often wondered how much smaller and less complex that operating system would be if they would stop supporting 30 year old daisy wheel tractor feed printers (single example). Apple is great at cutting off old technology and sticking to the latest and greatest. They have a culture of pushing the envelope with what could be. USB adoption, CD adoption, killing the floppy drive.

That being said, Apple is a hardware company and they make their money on hardware. I feel that Apple has a legitimate option to allow XP to boot and run on their hardware...let's be honest, it's great looking hardware. I see a viral marketing campaign happening with Apple selling boxes that'll run XP, but ship with OSX. The windows users will have their Apple/Windows box sitting on their desk happily with that little OSX DVD hanging out in their drawer whispering; "Drink me". More sales is a good thing, it means market share and they can erode the PC market from there. Too many people think that Apple and Microsoft are rivals...that's not true, Apple is a hardware company, Apple and Dell are rivals...Apple needs to beat them. Strangely enough, if you look at the market share numbers vs. any PC manufacturer, you'll see that Apple is quite competitive! All we are ever shown though is the OS comparisons in which Apple has ~5% Market share. About the same market share as BMW.

I never buy anything first generation in technology, I wait until other people have test driven it for me...I recommend you wait until june or july to see how the intel changeover affects your purchasing decision. Or, just take the bite now. The current crop of machines are very nice.

I agree.

I've been caught out (or rather the companies I've worked for have) by first generation technology before.

I work on a new G5 at work and it's pretty good. I don't like all the bells and whistles they've put OSX (I've only just made the change from the old system).

I'm still tempted to wait, every last drop of speed is important when dealing with media files, plus I'll be able to play games on it ;)

Steven

That would be awesome, but i would still buy a mac now they are great machines...

Apple aren't going to allow XP to boot up on their machines. This year there has been a lot of debate amongst large corporate users about the expense of running windows based machines, simply because they are too vunerable to viruses and therefore cost a fortune to maintain an infrastructure on.

Lots of these guys are talking about ditching their entire PC inventory and starting again with Macs, whose operating language is inherently less susceptable. With this swing in mood within the business sector Apple only really need to hold fast. To allow XP anywhere near their hardware would be suicidal.

I guess you could wait, but you may be waiting forever. Just like those waiting for affordable HD instead of shooting now. It's technology. There's always something new coming.

Lots of these guys are talking about ditching their entire PC inventory and starting again with Macs, whose operating language is inherently less susceptable.
Say it ain't so! The more people using the Mac OS, the more people will write viruses (viri?) for it.

Keep spreading the word: Mac's no good. PC's good!

But seriously folks....

Is the Mac OS really less susceptable? Or is it just that a virus for the Mac won't cause much of a stir because there are so few of us using it?

The OS still has the weakest vulnerability of all...the user. As long as humans click on that link, virii will spread. The system is geared to be more robust, but no one uses it correctly to make it that strong. Most Mac users run as admin on their systems all the time and don't tend to think twice about typing in their password when asked.

This OS (BSD-Darwin) is built on a long history of patching holes based on peer review. It is based on one of the most secure installs out of the box of any of the unix installs. I agree that more users will write more virii, but apple has been very aggressive about offering patches and security updates. I know that my computer will be relatively safe becuase I'm paranoid about things like that, but others may not be so lucky.

Bring it on. We've been spoiled so far, let's put our money where our mouth is and see how our OS deals with the virii. I wouldn't mind getting all the good games first now that bungie is dead (long live bungie).

Thanks, knightly.

Even though I've been a Mac user since 1987 I really don't know much about the computer or it's running system.

Thanks, knightly.

Even though I've been a Mac user since 1987 I really don't know much about the computer or it's running system.

Is that a sarcastic thanks? ;) I'm open to any questions you may have regarding the transition to intel, virii based on market share or best security practices...it's what I do for a living.

I don't feel the intel switchover can be anything other than good for the Macintosh platform. Games will be able to be ported much more easily (as will other applications). I mention games because the adoption rate of a platform is based not only upon the capabilities of the platform, but what software is available for the platform.

Most parents buy home computers based on what their kids recommend (ever play video games against an 11 year old?)...the kids recommend the platforms with the latest and greatest games. If Apple can get this one thing to change with the intel changeover, it will have been worth it, never mind the competition between Intel and AMD driving clock speeds up and power consumption down in their chips...and the customer savings based on price competition.

I for one would welcome any advice you had on security for macs. My mac is my business and like many mac users I'm more interested, in the main, in the creative applications rather than the basics like security.

I'll go start a thread on that very thing.

A quick update on this subject.

Apparently, Steve Jobs (Mr Apple) says that you WILL be able to run whatever you want on the new Intel Mac. It just won't work the other way around i.e. you won't be able to run OSX on a P.C. (or at least they'll try to stop you).

It may not be straight forward, but it would be worth a it.

Duel booting here we come.

Steven

Apparently, Steve Jobs (Mr Apple) says that you WILL be able to run whatever you want on the new Intel Mac.

Ah, my opinions humbled by the truth one more time. I really ought to have learned by now. :lol:

I got this info from a friend of a friend, so I'm NOT betting my life on it.

(I've only just re-read this and added the 'NOT')

I'd wait until the machines are released...I'm sure they won't intend to be used that way, but someone will figure out how. Either way it will be good for apple - They are a hardware company, they don't make much profit with software, it's there to serve the sales of hardware where they make their money. This has always been the case with apple and will continue to be so into the forseeable future. They compete with dell for market share, not microsoft.

I'll go start a thread on that very thing.


Where is this thread you speak of?

I have a friend that just jump ship from PC to MAC... He just bought a dual proc G4 from eBay for $621.

Where is this thread you speak of?

Here...sorry (http://www.indietalk.com/showthread.php?t=9205)

Apparently, Steve Jobs (Mr Apple) says that you WILL be able to run whatever you want on the new Intel Mac. It just won't work the other way around i.e. you won't be able to run OSX on a P.C. (or at least they'll try to stop you).

Do you have a link on this subject? I checked news.com.com, and it seems like this would be HUGE story if true. I think the friend of the friend may have said it's possible to run windows on an Intel Mac, not it will be allowed and encouraged.

I don't have a link for the Steve Jobs 'quote', but here is a link to another interesting article on the subject:

http://www.apcmag.com/apc/v3.nsf/0/64E7EA353646669ECA2570F50012430B

Steven.

The new Intel-based Macs will run Microsoft Vista, but they have OS X locked down the the proprietary hardware they sell.

I've read news on other www sites that people have hacked this and can get OS X to run on any Intel-based PC, but Apple will hate you for it.

I'm going to wait for a while until the PowerMacs go Intel (Apple claims Summer 2007). We'll hopefully be seeing dual core dual Xeons (Ooh, 4 procs!). maybe then I'll buy my first Mac and FCP.

I'm going to wait for a while until the PowerMacs go Intel (Apple claims Summer 2007). We'll hopefully be seeing dual core dual Xeons (Ooh, 4 procs!). maybe then I'll buy my first Mac and FCP.

Apple already has a dual core dual G5 PowerMac (http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/71902/wo/2953KNPrVKp62apy3YD2buB5Td6/0.SLID?nclm=PowerMac&mco=9C924877) out right now, but it's still the PowerPC core.

I would wait to buy an intel mac as well, just until they get all the bugs ironed out. I was hoping this announcement would lower the price of the PowerPC line, but it appears Apple has other plains. I don't understand, if the intel core is SOOOO much better and faster, why they wouldn't lower the price of the old PowerPC line since it's now "obsolete?" It makes me think that they don't feel their customers are comfortable with the switch yet, and in turn, they aren't either. They either need to stop selling the old ones, or their slash prices to get rid of them. They need to move forward with this new technology, not confuse customers as to which core is better.

The camps are very split, this will remain a transition until they are ready to roll out the big guns...the laptop has been languishing and compained about online the most of any of their hardware for its lack of advancement. The iMac is based on laptop technology, so its change isn't that surprising. The people who buy the higher end units will be musicians, artists and scientists, it doesn't surprise me that they are holding off on this abit until they can guarantee that their foray into untested water doesn't fall flat on its face.

Apparently it's, literally, just been done.

Someone won a $14,000 dollar competition to run Windows on an Intel Mac.

http://news.com.com/Windows+XP-on-Mac+contest+declares+winner/2100-1046_3-6050431.html?tag=nl"

As soon as everthing is a bit more certain I'm going to break open my piggy bank.

Steven

Support calls will go like this:

Microsoft: What are you running windows XP on? Call Apple...
Apple: Can't see the apple menu? Windows? Call Microsoft...
Microsoft: Have you reinstalled windows?

You will probably end up missing drivers for some of the OEM hardware that apple puts in their boxen: Video cards, DVD Burners, etc. I'd love to see it work, due to the fact that the Mac OS disk in the desk drawer will call to the windows users saying, "Try me out..."

and speaking of:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11885495/

Wow. Check this out...

Boot Camp (http://www.apple.com/macosx/bootcamp/)

I really didn't expect the support from Apple to dual boot, but this is awesome.

See! I told you so:

I'd wait until the machines are released...I'm sure they won't intend to be used that way, but someone will figure out how. Either way it will be good for apple - They are a hardware company, they don't make much profit with software, it's there to serve the sales of hardware where they make their money. This has always been the case with apple and will continue to be so into the forseeable future. They compete with dell for market share, not microsoft.

I can see this being useful if you don't already have an XP machine. My problem is that I use all of my computers basically simultaneously, so dual-booting isn't much use unfortunately.

Wow. Check this out...

Boot Camp (http://www.apple.com/macosx/bootcamp/)

I really didn't expect the support from Apple to dual boot, but this is awesome.


This is brilliant! Just what I was hoping would happen.

So whilst Apple have been publicly 'not encouraging' Windows use on Mac or dual booting, they had this up their sleeve all the time?

Well it's done the trick for me, as soon as the new intel towers are up to speed I'm getting one, and I know two Windows users who have been waiting for an excuss to buy a Mac. So that's three new sales anyway.

Steven

but, if Virtual PC is rewritten by MS to run natively on the intel chip with what will invariably be an industry standard video card, the mac/pc thing may just go away...especially if they treat it the way they have done with integrating the interfaces for xWindows and Classic OS9 apps. There are differences in how both of those environments behave compared to Aqua (the windowing environment in OSX). Doing the same thing for windows apps, especially games, will go a long way toward making the rift close...

--Insert cost argument here--

Just found this...so never mind:

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1946922,00.asp

I think Steve Jobs wants to hear the words "PC, Mac, what the difference?"

Me too, that would be nice...after being an Apple support guy in several companies that were openly hostile toward Mac users. Not just a bias thing...I was specifically hired by them to support their macintoshes that they already had. Whenever the PC guy asked for parts or replacement machines, he got them...whenever I did, I had to play politics to get what I needed, and I asked for tons less (picking battles).

And run what ever you want!

http://www.apple.com/macosx/bootcamp/ :yes:

The initial reports on bootcamp are saying that it runs everything just fine...including games and DVRack!

Just found this...so never mind:

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1946922,00.asp

Virtualisation is an entirely different story for my particular use. Boot Camp has rather limited application, but virtualisation is handy dandy indeed. Hmmm....

The real question I guess is how it uses system resources, and how will running XP at the same time as OS X affect my work.