Has anyone had experience with ultra low budget for Sag? As I understand it the maximum for production is $200,000 plus deferments for a total of $500000.My questions are: 1. Does this budget include post production? 2. Sag doesn't spell it out as to how long payment can be deferred. Elly

The 'exerimental' contracts were just recently revamped.. there is now the 'short' contract and as you say, the ultra-low budget contract. This is all fairly well detailed in the latest issue of Moviemaker (http://www.moviemaker.com/). I'll paraphrase it here:

Basically it breaks down like this...

The Short film agreement allows you to defer all payment to actors if your film is under 35 minutes, has a shooting schedule of 30 or less nonconsecutive days, and a maximum budget of $50,000. If either the runtime or shooting limit is exceeded however, then it will automatically convert to 'Modified Low Budget Agreement' rates. Also you're limited to the exploitation of the film.. festivals, academy consideration screenings, unpaid non-public (as in free invite only) "showcase" screenings, and up to a year run on public access TV, provided no compensation is provided for airing it.

The Ultra-Low Budget Agreement "is designed for feature films intended for initial theatrical release and not television. It excludes music videos, and has added animation projects to those ineligedble to use the deal."

Post production is part of the production budget (or, what it costs to make the movie) so, yes the $500K includes post. Payment is deferred until the film gets distribution. The new version of the ultra-low budget agreement allows for a $100 minimum day rate though.. so you can pay your SAG actors $100 x (num working days), and are then clear to have an unlimited general theatrical release, without the old jump in SAG rates.

You can always get all the details from the SAG office.. and don't forget about AFTRA, the 'other' actors union.. ;)

Thanks for the information. do I interpret what you say to mean that the salaries don't have to be paid until a distribution deal is received no matter how long that is. The main reason I am interested in the ultra low budget sag contract is not the deferrment but the ability to have sag and non sag actors. It is my understanding the the low budget agreement doesn't allow that. Thanks again. Elly

Thanks for the information. do I interpret what you say to mean that the salaries don't have to be paid until a distribution deal is received no matter how long that is.

My understanding is that you DO have to pay them the base rate. Also, you have to do your payroll through SAG.

We are actually in the process of dealing with the ultra-low-budget agreement for a shoot next month. I'll let you know if I learn anything different.

The main reason I am interested in the ultra low budget sag contract is not the deferrment but the ability to have sag and non sag actors. It is my understanding the the low budget agreement doesn't allow that. Thanks again. Elly

Yes, you can hire both non-SAG and SAG actors with the ultra low budget agreement.

Wow! i didn't know that. :P That reminds me, i gotta finish a short film script i'm working on before saturday. i want to send it off before the week is over.

Here are my notes from working under SAG ultra low:
1) The base rate is $100/day for the SAG actors but this is not for a 12 hr day. This is for an 8hr day and the SAG actors are entitled to overtime after that. If most of your actors are SAG and you want to work 12hr days then I recommend accounting for this in your budget. You might think you'll stick to 8hr days for the SAG actors.. but beware of wishful thinking.
2) You must go through a payroll service who will add a bunch of fringes and taxes. If you are shooting in NYC then will be paying more like $140 for your SAG actor for an 8hr day. Not to mention, someone on your production staff must spend time working with the payroll house and pay them a fee to cut checks. This brings the real cost of your SAG actor's 8hr day to more like $150/day.
3) You must post a bond to SAG. This bond is used to cover any penalties that you may incur. They will tell you how much when you finish your application.
4) If any of the above sounds offputting - just remind yourself that it's worth the hassle to get experienced actors!


My understanding is that you DO have to pay them the base rate. Also, you have to do your payroll through SAG.

We are actually in the process of dealing with the ultra-low-budget agreement for a shoot next month. I'll let you know if I learn anything different.



Yes, you can hire both non-SAG and SAG actors with the ultra low budget agreement.

Talking distribution..... so that ULB is for initial theatrical release...what if you don't get that and then the film goes straight to DVD, do you have to negotiate with SAG again? Do the actors get residuals then?

Cheerio
Elke

We just went through the whole process, and it went like this: we signed the Limited Exhibition Agreement, which is the older form of the Ultra Low-Budget Agreement. We showed at festivals and had a limited theatrical release, then we got a DVD distribution deal.

When you get any kind of distribution, which you're not allowed to do under the ULB Agreement, you have to UPGRADE to a higher level of contract. If you've had a theatrical release, you upgrade to the Modified Low Budget Agreement, and you have to pay your actors back pay on that rate (which is about $500 a day plus overtime and pension and health), and you also owe them residuals. The catch is, you are required to screen your film in at least one NON-ARTHOUSE THEATER. SAG will tell you if the theater is considered an arthouse theater are not. I'm not clear on what their parameters are, but I think that most theaters that screen independent films are considered arthouse theaters, including the Cinema Village, the Sunset 5, the Landmark Theaters, etc. By some freak of luck we happened to screen at one AMC Theater in Montreal, so we were safe.

If you can't prove that you screened at a non-arthouse theater then you are bumped to the next level, the Independent Television Producer's Agreement, which is I think around $700 a day. That's for an 8 hour day. So if you had a 12 hour day where you paid the actor $100 plus 4 hours overtime and it cost you $175 plus 13% pension and health at the time, now you owe that actor overtime on $700, so that would be $1225 for that one day, plus about $160 for pension and heath plans and about 15% more that the payroll company takes. So you are looking at about $1500 a day for any actor that signs any type of SAG contract if you plan to release that film on DVD, even if you release it yourself. And you are liable for residual payments on your gross sales of about 5%, on which you also have to pay a payroll company and pension and health benefits.

If you release your DVD without telling SAG and they find out, they will sue you for breach of contract and make you pay the highest going rate or they will take you to court.

And one more thing: if you are producing a SAG movie and acting in it yourself, make sure to sign the SAG paperwork and time sheets, or else you will not be entitled to any residuals yourself, even if you were the lead and everyone who signed the SAG contract had only one line. The SAG actors will split the residuals pie between them, and no one else in the cast is entitled to anything. You can't do this after the fact.

I scoured the web for this kind of information and couldn't find it, so I hope this helps some of you who are planning to use SAG actors in your films. Good luck.

The earlier post by will mentioned 30 shooting days... is that for the entire production or jsut individual actors?

What is the meaning of SAG? :O

What is the meaning of SAG? :O

It stands for Screen Actors Guild.

It's a union, for professional actors.

If a feature falls under the SAG Ultra Low Budget rules, where would it leave a non-union actor with a supporting role? Would he/she be SAG eligible, if cast in SAG ULB? and What would payment be required? (New Mexico, area.)

Hi rewsingn and welcome to indietalk!

If you go to http://www.sagindie.org/ and click on SAGIndie
Contracts: Information & Downloads your questions will be
answered.

Essentially the Low Budget Agreement allows for the uses of
both professional and non-professional performers. But check
out their site - it's very informative.

This post is three years old, like Rik says, check sagindie for the latest.

But new to rewsingn.

Isn't it great that this forum continues to be a source of
good info? Even posts that are 3 years old....

SAG will not grant Eligibility for speaking roles performed by Non-Union Actors in Ultra Low Budget Agreements. Ridiculous, but true!
My question is: How does one ensure that equal pay, including any future profits (residual percentage) is given to a Non-Union Actor playing a Principal role??

You may be interested in reading this explanation of the Ultra Low Budget Agreement by someone who's been dealing with the various SAG agreements for many years: http://www.easy-budget.com/articles/articles.asp?article=ultralow :cool:

God I dread the day I have to deal with SAG. I had a SAG actor in my current film, but he doesn't give a damn about union rules so he worked for free (Lloyd Kaufman).

yes, check sagindie for the latest. but this was my experience... you can increase the budget to $250,000 if you have a diverse cast. payment for deferments is due if and when you sell or distribute the film outside of its original intended market. Usually, with the L.E.A. (Limited Exibition Agreement) THAT is the film festival market. Selling it to a DVD distributor, for example, would quality. They require a top sheet from your budget, which would include your post production allocations.

SAG will not grant Eligibility for speaking roles performed by Non-Union Actors in Ultra Low Budget Agreements. Ridiculous, but true!
My question is: How does one ensure that equal pay, including any future profits (residual percentage) is given to a Non-Union Actor playing a Principal role??
That is what SAG is for... negotiating rates and working conditions, and TRACKING RESIDUALS. A non-union actor would have to negotiate to receive residuals in the first place, and then have to keep an eye on the project themselves, or at least hire someone to. I suppose they might have their agent or manager help with that. But obviously, its better to have a union watching your back.

Has anyone used a SAG Ultra Low Budget Agreement for a feature film?

I have heard that if the film you make under this contract is successful and makes any money, SAG will demand "step payments" for the SAG actors?

Can anyone share their experience, advantages, disadvantages in using SAG Ultra Low Budget Agreement?

I'll just say from personal experience, and I'm sorry to post this sort of in a void, and not having read every post...but...

Every time we've hired SAG it's been an INCREDIBLE hassle. Such an incredible hassle that we've vowed not to use union again...ever. And this saddens us, because a few of our really good friends who we use to use a lot went SAG, and we can't work with them anymore.

This isn't just a case with the production company I work most close to...it's the case with every production company I talk to or work with...they all say the same thing.

I'm telling you...times are a' changin'. Technology, savvy, and innovation is making SAG think twice. If they don't watch it...they are going to loose control, and a critical mass is going to cause them to shatter. Many indie production companies are creating superior quality films for a micro-fraction of the budget...using all non-union talent. I don't think Hollywood is going anywhere...but audiences are going to head online (which is going to directly link to your HDTV within the next 10 years), and everyone is going to watch the myriad non-union movies coming out of Nowhereville.

We aren't there yet...but webseries are going to be a huge deal...as is streaming movie content straight to your HDTV. This is going to allow low budget production houses access to millions of homes. And with the increase in technology and savvy, and the decrease in equipment prices...the quality of low-budget (whatever that means) films are going way up.

Yes there is a lot of shit out there...because of everything I've said, is the very reason we have to trudge through piles of trash to find good films...but if you know where to look, and the production companies are smart with PR and marketing...it's not hard to find the cream that's risen to the top.

Hell...in Rhode Island alone, there are 6 production companies that are all putting out really high quality indie films...and they are only getting better. Many of them are starting to shoot on the RED or equivalent...as a community we are pushing out handfuls of films a year, some of which rival Hollywood films in terms of overall entertainment. More and more are being distributed (even in this horrid DVD market), and more and more are learning how to build a respectable production company.

Zeitgeist.

I almost always use the SAG Ultra-Low Budget agreement and have
never had an issue with it. I’ve even used the Modified-Low
Budget Agreement several times. No hassles at all.

What you have heard is correct, d1p23n; if the movie is successful
SAG demands (in writing) that the actors see a piece of the
profits.

Quite reasonable in my opinion.

I almost always use the SAG Ultra-Low Budget agreement and have
never had an issue with it. I’ve even used the Modified-Low
Budget Agreement several times. No hassles at all.

What you have heard is correct, d1p23n; if the movie is successful
SAG demands (in writing) that the actors see a piece of the
profits.

Quite reasonable in my opinion.

Two sides of a coin. That's good to hear Rik. I'm glad someone works SAG contracts without a hitch.

I suppose what I would certainly make sure is, have someone else do the SAG contracts and paperwork other than the director, dp, etc. There is a ton to go over, and you'll be spending a lot of time on it.

And another thing...if you have any questions and you call the SAG offices, don't expect someone to call you right back...several of my director friends had to harass the SAG offices repeatedly for a call back.

I would have to have a major budget (many hundrds of thousands, and a producer willing to deal with all their bullshit so I didn't have to) before I'd even consider casting a SAG actor.

I understand where both of you are coming from.

I imagine it’s difficult to get SAG to make a long distance call.
Silly as that is, some companies just don’t do it unless it’s for
a major prodCo. I’ve never had a problem contacting them for
information. Though I admit I never ask for a return call. If the
person who can answer a question isn’t available I keep calling
until they are.

And I usually do all the paper work myself.

In Nashville I imagine there are fewer SAG actors than here in Los
Angeles. So I can understand why you wouldn’t bother using SAG
actors. Here in Los Angeles I have access to hundreds of SAG
actors willing to work under the ULB agreement - many of them
recognizable - so I use that agreement all the time.

Movie making here in L.A. is a different beast than in Providence
or Nashville.

I understand where both of you are coming from.

I imagine it’s difficult to get SAG to make a long distance call.
Silly as that is, some companies just don’t do it unless it’s for
a major prodCo. I’ve never had a problem contacting them for
information. Though I admit I never ask for a return call. If the
person who can answer a question isn’t available I keep calling
until they are.

And I usually do all the paper work myself.

In Nashville I imagine there are fewer SAG actors than here in Los
Angeles. So I can understand why you wouldn’t bother using SAG
actors. Here in Los Angeles I have access to hundreds of SAG
actors willing to work under the ULB agreement - many of them
recognizable - so I use that agreement all the time.

Movie making here in L.A. is a different beast than in Providence
or Nashville.

Oh no doubt, different worlds. We are probably third on the list behind LA and New York though. They actually do a fair bit of production here, and there are quite a few SAG actors around, but not every waiter, bartender, and auto mechanic is SAG as I have always imagined LA to be. I actually did use a SAG actor, Lloyd Kaufman, but he basically thumbs his nose at them. He appears in films not adhering to SAG rules and casts SAG actors (who are credited under a false name) all the time.

Oh no doubt, different worlds. We are probably third on the list behind LA and New York though. They actually do a fair bit of production here, and there are quite a few SAG actors around, but not every waiter, bartender, and auto mechanic is SAG as I have always imagined LA to be. I actually did use a SAG actor, Lloyd Kaufman, but he basically thumbs his nose at them. He appears in films not adhering to SAG rules and casts SAG actors (who are credited under a false name) all the time.

We used Llyod also. No paperwork. Loved him.

Two sides of a coin. That's good to hear Rik. I'm glad someone works SAG contracts without a hitch.

I suppose what I would certainly make sure is, have someone else do the SAG contracts and paperwork other than the director, dp, etc. There is a ton to go over, and you'll be spending a lot of time on it.

And another thing...if you have any questions and you call the SAG offices, don't expect someone to call you right back...several of my director friends had to harass the SAG offices repeatedly for a call back.

Adding my limited exeprience with SAG here.

Yup, the director & DP won't have time for the paperwork, sign-ins & outs, marking lunch breaks, info collection. As an AD, I got stuck with that joyous task for a few weeks. If you've never done the paperwork before, it can be downright intimidating & confusing. Luckily, the crafts-lady had - she walked me through everything on the second day.

The second day, you say? Yah, the paperwork had supposedly been mailed a week before the shoot but never arrived. So the first day consisted of panicking, calling SAG (we had our own agent assigned to our project), and catching her after lunch. She had another set of paperwork mailed out the same day, which we picked up on Day 2. Spent a lot of time recreating (ie: making up) what the events of Day 1 were, for the various forms. :lol:

At any rate - that's my one experience personally dealing with SAG. A few issues, but nothing that couldn't be solved fast with a phone call.

We used Llyod also. No paperwork. Loved him.

I had to cut some of his scene because I actually cast him in a straight role and couldn't get him to NOT insert things like "jumpin' Jesus on a pogo stick" and "Nigga please!" into his lines, but it worked out fine.

I had to cut some of his scene because I actually cast him in a straight role and couldn't get him to NOT insert things like "jumpin' Jesus on a pogo stick" and "Nigga please!" into his lines, but it worked out fine.

Hahahah. He added 'nigga please' in our script too!!! It was really well placed and funny, but we couldn't use it...it just didn't really fit. I mean...he was playing the Pope! Not a straight Pope...but still, not THAT out of control.

lol.

He's really good at improv and adlibbing...but sometimes the takes are unusable.

Hahahah. He added 'nigga please' in our script too!!! It was really well placed and funny, but we couldn't use it...it just didn't really fit. I mean...he was playing the Pope! Not a straight Pope...but still, not THAT out of control.

lol.

He's really good at improv and adlibbing...but sometimes the takes are unusable.

My guess is he's going to keep using "Nigga Please!" until somebody leaves it in. The other upside of using Lloyd is you're almost guaranteed to get into Tromadance.

You really should visit sagindie.com for the full scoop. Meantime, I have a copy of SAG's film contracts digest, from a little info session I attended with SAG reps. Here is a summary of how the Ultra Low Budget Agreement works (some info is from my notes on the session):

Total budget <$200k
Shoot entirely in U.S.

At least 1 mo. before start date, contact SAG - they will review your script, schedule, & budget, then send a big packet of documents to sign.

Covers only pro actors, can use a mix of SAG and non-SAG actors.
Only need 1 SAG actor to qualify.

Minimum rate for actors = $100/day (does not prevent actor from negotiating for more). This rate applies to principals - whether actors, singers, dancers, stunt performers - not supporting or background. Pension and Health contribs are due in addition to these rates - check the Basic Agreement for rates/breakdowns.

Exhibition/Residuals
Producer entitled to theatrical distribution under ULB Agmt w/o add'l compensation to performers.

Must obtain executed Distributor's Assumption Agmt form from SAG as soon as distribution deal is in place. No "step-up" fees for distribution beyond theatrical market (not including internet) - but residuals will be due the principals. Residuals are paid quarterly upon distribution, based on DGR (Distrtibutor's Gross Receipts), and divided up among principals based on amt. of time worked.
Rates:
Free TV - 3.6% of DGR
Basic Cable - 3.6% of DGR
Pay Cable - 3.6% of DGR
Videocassette/Disks - 4.5% of 1st million, 5.4% after that

Please note that distribution on the internet is a whole different animal - the reps in the info session I attended said there is a different bunch of people at SAG who deal with that, so you'd have to call to find out what gets paid out to SAG actors if you upload your flick to the web.

Excellent post, citychick. But I think several people were
asking about personal experiences using this agreement
rather than not knowing where to find it.

What has been your experience using this agreement?

Minimum rate for actors = $100/day (does not prevent actor from negotiating for more). This rate applies to principals - whether actors, singers, dancers, stunt performers - not supporting or background. Pension and Health contribs are due in addition to these rates - check the Basic Agreement for rates/breakdowns.

Exhibition/Residuals
Producer entitled to theatrical distribution under ULB Agmt w/o add'l compensation to performers.

Must obtain executed Distributor's Assumption Agmt form from SAG as soon as distribution deal is in place. No "step-up" fees for distribution beyond theatrical market (not including internet) - but residuals will be due the principals. Residuals are paid quarterly upon distribution, based on DGR (Distrtibutor's Gross Receipts), and divided up among principals based on amt. of time worked.
Rates:
Free TV - 3.6% of DGR
Basic Cable - 3.6% of DGR
Pay Cable - 3.6% of DGR
Videocassette/Disks - 4.5% of 1st million, 5.4% after that


Is this TRUE? Everything that I'm reading says you have to step up for any release outside of theatrical. If this IS true, I'll use this agreement right now. As of now however, we're budgeting for Modified Low Budget, but we have yet to raise financing.

Here's some important information about this Indie filmmakers trap:

http://www.easy-budget.com//articles/articles.asp?article=ultralow

john, are you aware that you already posted the
link to your article in this thread?