Hello! I am new to the Indie Talk and new to film-making. I had a question and I hope someone can help. I f i'm shooting a feature with one camera (Sony vx2100) and I wanted to get multiple angles like I had more than one camera, Whats the best way to accomplish that? Do I set the camera up in three different positions and react the scene from every angle? Then what about my audio? If I'm switching camera angles from actor to actor mid sentence will that also cut the audio? I hope my question is clear and someone can help me. Ex. Lets say actor 1 is talking and has a good amount of dialogue, and while he is in mid-sentence I want to get teh reaction of actor2, should I wait for a pause in the dialogue to switch?

This is called "blocking" your shots. Before the shoot, work it out with two standins and a digital still camera (this is often much quicker than storyboarding)



Most basic setups for two characters in dialog:
You will have 3 setups and perhaps 3 takes per setup (9 takes total)
1) Master: Shot entire scene w/ both characters in a wide shot
2) Over the shoulder of character 1: Shoot entire scene
3) Over the shoulder of character 2: Shoot entire scene.

You can decide in the edit how to cut it together.
Be aware of how actors move during the sequence so you perform edits plausibly.
If you have an actor sipping a drink, etc. then you can cut on that action. But make sure that they sip the drink before a specific line so you can do the edit.

There are many more possibilities but those are the most basic setups.

Get Katz's "Shot by Shot" for more info

thanks for the insight

the audio isnt a worry as long as you keep the mic at the same distance from each actors mouth that way you can cut to a cu of actor 1 and after his line cut to a cu of actor 2 then back to actor 1 or a ws...remember, dont stick to only cu's. btw, do urself a favor and get an external mic...onboard mics pick up lots of background noise that is liable to screw up the consistency of the shots.

as for switching to a reaction cu midshot--heres what you'd do in editing...keep actor 1's dialogue on one video track (lets call it V1). make a new video track (we'll call it V2) and put the reaction shot wherever you want it over top of V1, because when theres a video track over top of another, you'll only see the one on top which in this case is our V2 track. mit out the audio on the reaction shot (assuming theres no important audio on it) so we keep only the audio on v1...

im sorry ive been doing this for awhile, if ive lost you, tell me, ill be happy to try and explain it more in depth

I'msorry, i'm brand new to the film-making world, and yes I'm a little lost, with some of the abbreviations, such as cu's, btw, ws. I think I got the general idea. If I put actor 1's audio on video track 1 and then if I want a brief look at actor 2's reaction, mute it and put it on top of video track 1 that way I will still hear actor 1 speaking, but be looking at actor 2, correct me if i'm wrong, but thanks for the insight.

ws = wide shot
cu = closeup

heres some others:
xws (or ews) = extreme wide shot
mws = medium wide shot

ms = medium shot

xcu (or ecu) = extreme closeup
mcu = medium closeup

btw= simple internet lingo meaning "by the way"

btw, what you said is basically what i said, yes; you're correct. best of luck. feel free to ask me stuff anytime.

Thanks for the lesson, i'm sure i'll have more questions for you thanks again.

I'm doing the same thing right now...I've found to minimize tape use and maximize time, setup the master shot for the rehearsal and record their first couple of passes through the scene. You won't use the master as much as the singles ( http://www.yafiunderground.com/Tutorials/index.html ).

Then have each actor deliver their lines in the singles...if they or you don't like the way it's coming out or the way it's written...have them pause reset their composure and deliver the line differently. The singles don't have to be full read-throughs of a scene as you'll be editing just the best parts anyway.

Then reset the camera for the other actor's singles and go again. The offscreen actor can deliver their lines from a chair nearby unless they are in the shot for an over the shoulder (OTS) type of shot. Concentrating more time on the singles will get you moving faster in your shoot. If you end up really strapped for time or tape, you can pick which lines will be used in master for editing and have the actors do just those lines, then do the full scene scene in singles (even the parts that will be in master so you have the better sound as you can mike more closely in the singles).

If you have certain parts as you're going through the singles that should have closer shots, put a check mark by the line in the script and when you finish with that person's singles, just tighten up the shot to get the emotional marrow from their performance. When you capture the footage later, have the script next to you so you can remember the marks in the script as they relate to the footage.

Label all your tapes!!!! I only did day-tape numbers and I'm kicking myself.

I'm putting an extensive how to guide to the pre-post production parts of film-making (I'll leave the budgetary stuff to others) up at my website ( http://www.yafiunderground.com ). It's under the current link on the left...but I'll be moving it to a tutorial link later.

Hope That Helps

"Setting Up Your Shots", by Jeremy Vineyard. Publisher is Michael Wiese Productions (responsible for a boatload of good books for indies). 1999

http://www.mwp.com

I am liking this thread very much. :)

My issue is less with shot selection than with camera movement. One thing I always notice in films with money in the budget is that they LOVE to use the steadicam. I was just watching Wayne's World again and noticed they even did a steadicam- jib shot of an OTS shot in the coffee shop.

That is what I think I am missing in my work thus far (although I did have a dolly shot in my first short). Camera movement seems to be just as important as basic coverage.

Thoughts anyone?

check out the sample vids at:

http://www.hollywoodcamerawork.us

These make me want to take out a loan to get this DVD set!

I am liking this thread very much. :)

That is what I think I am missing in my work thus far (although I did have a dolly shot in my first short). Camera movement seems to be just as important as basic coverage.

Thoughts anyone?

I have the same problem. People have come to expect camera motion to add to visual appeal. A cheap trick is so do a very slow zoom on the cu over the shoulder shots, it draws in the audience but doesn't require any equipment. Each cut has a bit of movement and can heighten the impact of what's happening. Or mixing in things like extreme close-ups, helps add the variety of images. That's what can get boring to an audience, very static shots, same angles and same stuff every time.

I've also found that you can fake camera moves by using pans and camera placement from shot to shot. The first shot will start to pan toward the end and the next shot is located where the next important part of the track would have been laid by the money/time spending folk which pans in. It's definately not as good as a dolly shot for getting dynamic motion foreground vs. background, but it allows you to use 3 or 4 cuts to get the camera across the line without making it too abrupt. It will allow you to follow action across a distance without having tracks or dollies.

I have an example of this up:

http://www.yafiunderground.com/AJ/7.b.sm.mov
(be nice, it's a really rough edit)

If you don't have the gear, you can move the actors. Never underestimate the power that a static camera shot can have with the correct blocking (movement within the scene.) You can create closeups wide shots, you name it.

Also, I have seen some pretty sweet moving camera shots accomplished on rollerblades or wheelchairs. You can even pulloff some interesting stuff if you simply strap the camera on the end of a 2x4 and balance it in the middle on a saw horse or something. First visualize what you want and then figure out how to make that happen. You can rent a dolly for about 80-100 bucks a day or you can make a simple one for ~$100. If a simple one will do you should consider investing your money a different way.

Personally, I prefer a dolly, because once the camera is on the dolly, I can pretty much leave it on there and get most of the shots, even static ones, faster. I prefer the boom action to adjusting the height of a tripod.

check out the sample vids at:

http://www.hollywoodcamerawork.us (http://www.hollywoodcamerawork.us/)

These make me want to take out a loan to get this DVD set!

Or you could get most of the same info and save $400... pick up "Directing: Shot by Shot" and "Directing: Cinematic Motion" ;)

Wow, it just keeps getting better and better. :)

Thank you guys for all the information on camera movement. I will faithfully track down these books. Not sure I want to invest $400 in dvds... my last short had a total budget of $350. :)

I hope that rockydm is getting a lot out of this too.

Oh yea, I'm on my way to get the books sometime today. Thanks for the insight

Or you could get most of the same info and save $400... pick up "Directing: Shot by Shot" and "Directing: Cinematic Motion" ;)

I do own this as well. Also the companion on blocking and staging. Unfortunately for me, it doesn't sink in until I've seen the result. I learned as much in a week of reading the book (which is a fabulous book!) as in watching the overall blocking trailer posted on the cameraworks website for 5 minutes...I'm just a visual guy I guess.

I have an extensive library on all topics in and out of the field. I've custom made my own personal film school piecing together parts from all over.

For what it's worth, I've heard that the DVD set is very good (though you get sick of looking at the same 3d expressionless models after a while). I'm debating whether to fork out the $400.

Cheers,

Josh

If I could just convince my wife to let me get that...;)

Say I can't afford a dolly in my new short film(and i can't). So I want to use a cheap way like a rolling chair or a kids "radio flyer" wagon, how would i cancel the noise from it rolling around. Any suggestions would be some help.

Hey bigpat,
If I were you I would look into using a wheelchair, if you can get one. It rolls alot more smooth on the pavement. You can mount a piece of wood on the chairs arm rests and mount a small tri-pod to that. See if that works.

thanx rock i will look into that

If I could just convince my wife to let me get that...;)

Do you have a new site?

I realize how old this thread is, so I guess I shouldn't have been surprised when I clicked the link and it went to broken link.

currently, my site is down, I'm working on getting switched over to another server. There was a massive harddrive crash (twice - we like backups). If you google yafiunderground, you should be able to click on the cached links to get to the content, for my videos, youtube:knightscape...the images you'll have to wait til I get the server up again.

Or you could get most of the same info and save $400... pick up "Directing: Shot by Shot" and "Directing: Cinematic Motion" ;)

I can also vouch for "Directing: Shot by Shot." It's a good starter book on directing and blocking action as well as giving you some basic tips for composition as well!

A few people have brought up good ways to replicate a dolly. Just by leaving a closed or folded-up tripod attached to the camera you get a lot of nice weight off the bottom that lowers its center of gravity and can make even your handheld shots smoother.

I've taken shots out the back of [slowly] moving vehicles to truck alongside a walking actor, and used one of those rolling carts for a semi-circular surround shot (along with some WD-40 to grease up the wheels :). Using a wheelchair sounds like a great idea; my folks have one at their house from when my grandfather lived with them, but I've never thought about using it before! Maybe I'll go make an "unannounced family visit" run this weekend. heh heh...

Think about other things that have wheels, both mentioned above and others - rollerblades, skateboards, wagons, bicycles, etc. You'll be hard-pressed to find many that track completely silently, but those hybrid/electric cars are getting quieter and quieter these days. Of course I'm not suggesting that you film a high-speed chase hanging out your car window. And definitely not if you're also driving.

Complicated motion shots are often used for effect or transition rather than to capture lines of dialogue, so depending on your situation you may not even need to worry about noise!

Of course, if you're wealthy enough to afford a segway... or a steadicam for that matter...
_____________________
The Comprehensive Guide to No Budget Filmmaking (http://www.indie-film-making.com)

Hey bigpat,
If I were you I would look into using a wheelchair, if you can get one. It rolls alot more smooth on the pavement. You can mount a piece of wood on the chairs arm rests and mount a small tri-pod to that. See if that works.

You can also (if you're handy) construct a small 6' or 8' "Slider" out of pipe and skateboard wheels. you mount the skateboard wheels to some "cheese plate" (a metal plate with holes drilled for your camera's tripod mount), mount the camera to that, and make the track out of the pipe.

This is called "blocking" your shots. Before the shoot, work it out with two standins and a digital still camera (this is often much quicker than storyboarding)



Most basic setups for two characters in dialog:
You will have 3 setups and perhaps 3 takes per setup (9 takes total)
1) Master: Shot entire scene w/ both characters in a wide shot
2) Over the shoulder of character 1: Shoot entire scene
3) Over the shoulder of character 2: Shoot entire scene.

You can decide in the edit how to cut it together.
Be aware of how actors move during the sequence so you perform edits plausibly.
If you have an actor sipping a drink, etc. then you can cut on that action. But make sure that they sip the drink before a specific line so you can do the edit.

There are many more possibilities but those are the most basic setups.

Get Katz's "Shot by Shot" for more info


This is the best explanation available.

Just remember that some of the best movies ever made were movies made almost entirely of master shots(ex: To Kill A Mockingbird) and when the camera moved, so did the people(Ex: Howard Hawks' films like His Girl Friday with Cary Grant and Rosiland Russell). Sometimes directors do tend to forget that a good story can be told with good character actors and a good script WITHOUT all of the fancy camera work. Not just old movies either. E.T had a little guy in a suit, and a puppet for special effects for most of the movie(except for the flying bicycles and U.F.O) and set cameras for the most part. They liked the zoom lens too.
In Jeremiah Johnson they built a Camera rail for a parrallel shot of Johnson(Robert Redford) being chased into a log cabin by a bear, running through the cabin, and jumping out the back window. It IS a fantastic shot. Then in Silverado the brothers two, built a camera rail for their movie and pretty soon every director just had to have one! They are neat and they made good shots but does the scene in your movie just have to have one or do you just want one because everyone else does it?
I myself get somewhat annoyed when the camera is all over the place doing everything and jumping from place to place especially when I can't for the life of me see any reason for doing it other than the director wanted us to know that he could have and did make all of those shots and angles. The purpose should always be to tell the story in the best way possible. If that involves the technical aspects, by all means use them. But if without them, the story is presented better, why use them? I believe that the best director is the one who can tell the story in the best way. I'll leave you with this: A quote from Horton Foote who took me back into a corner and gave me a ten minute lesson about films. "If you have a good story and good character actors to tell the story, just put the camera there and turn it on!"
Of course he was a film writer, not a director, but he was right. Tell the story!

I wish I had the balls to shoot a feature when i knew nothing about film :D

I wish I had the balls to shoot a feature when i knew nothing about film :D

No Excuses, just do it!