View Full Version : it's time for a new independent movie industry


funches
07-19-2005, 02:26 PM
Make a movie and then do what with it?.. placed it in film festivals or directly to DVD where few people if any knows of its existence, and face it Hollywood has locked most out, it is simply time for another venue to be created
,The Alanthus Chamber Project is designed to launch a new Independent Movie Industry based in Chicago, pushing movies just like Hollywood does. Complete with television and radio ads, movie theaters and an Independent Sci-fi/horror/creature channel called The Halloween Channel,
the problem is finding the right people who would dedicate themselves to such a project, involvement in this project would insure your place in this Industry, it’s enough talent in this forum alone to launch it, I never went to film school but self-taught myself enough to produce movies and if you go to my website everything on it was created by my brother and I with a project budget of one hundred dollars of duct tape, latex, clay, newspaper and junk around the house and the stuff on the site looks like it took thousands of dollars and a crew to create http://www.geocities.com/funchesfilms/index.html
…sorry to get cocky but I’m looking for those that know they are the best in their ability this is the only way this project will activate, it was told to me by many in the business that the majority of filmmakers go to school but end up in other trades rarely or never to used their talents, are you going to be one of those that this happens to or would you like to get involve in a project to use your abilities..This is a forum but things like this are not discuss here and I would value opinions and if you are interested in joining this project e-mail funchesfilms@yahoo.com

Brian420
08-09-2005, 03:55 PM
I've been watching your posts for years now about this idea of yours.

I have the same idea.

Fact is, I have MY project in the works right now and want people to join it, over yours.

I think the script I have written has a greater chance of succeeding than anything else that any other indie filmmaker has to offer.

So, here's my suggested recipe for success; help me get my project off the ground and then with the money it makes, I'll help you.

Are you willing to do that?

Contempovision Films
08-09-2005, 04:24 PM
good luck, sounds like your motivated. where there is will, theres a way!

funches
08-09-2005, 05:06 PM
hey Brian
awesome.......post it on the forum

Spatula
08-09-2005, 07:29 PM
hey Brian
awesome.......post it on the forum

I'm not sure that's a good idea. If it's a great script, make sure it's copyrighted and deal through private channels like email. A synopsis is one thing, but posting a whole script is a little risky.

funches
08-09-2005, 08:03 PM
not talking about posting the movie script.. talking about posting the plan on how to start a new venue for Independent movies

CootDog
08-09-2005, 11:10 PM
Hey Funches... Glad to see you here! This is an awesome place... AND I have to say that your project is pretty damn awesome.

funches
08-10-2005, 10:55 AM
hey CootDog
Thanks for the welcome, yes I think it's an awesome plan, without the money to activate the plan it is a major undertaking , for you would have to form a collective of filmmakers and businesses that think in this direction and they are rare, but most filmmakers so far are against this idea of a new venue for Independent movies and gives some of the strangest reasons why,.. some of the reasons are so scary you could make a b-movie.. but if Brian have a better idea and save me from the horrors of trying to do it..I'm all ears, can't wait for him to hurry and post it

directorik
08-10-2005, 11:40 AM
For me it isn’t about being against the idea, it’s just not understanding it.

I checked out your site and found a link that offered to sell a 30 minute video for $25 and links to the stories available on that video. But nothing about a new industry.

I’m not really interested in buying a short movie, but I am interested in your ideas for a new Independent Movie Industry. It might be an awesome plan - I just can’t seem to find the plan on your site.

What am I missing?

WideShot
08-10-2005, 12:19 PM
I agree with rik. It isn't like an indie only distributor who gets unknown films out there isnt a good idea, I think every indie in the world would love that. But practicality says advertising costs money. Supplying prints to cinemas costs money. Where does this money come from?

In terms of producing no/low cost features and shorts, of course! We all do that! We take $50 and try to make it look like $500. The question is not achieving good films with little money, the question is creating films of the caliber to attract a legitamite distributor with actual connections to cinemas who has an outlet for the film after a box office run.

Furthermore, I think if you are trying to enlist support, and want your efforts to be evident from people visiting your website, you're going to need to re-do your website. Design and graphics alone, at $8.95 for a domain, if you don't have one, people might question your ablity to provide quality commercials on television at $50k a pop.

Brian420
08-10-2005, 12:48 PM
You do realize, of course, that if we build up the "indie" industry that it will eventually come to be much like Hollywood, right?

I like this idea of "a new independent movie industry". But what is it gonna take to make people stand up and notice it?

Your statement suggests that we need a "new independent movie industry." What's wrong with the one we got now?

I'll tell you what's wrong with it and I'll be the first one to say it! Hold on to your hats boyz and gurlz, because I'm about to get critical on the "indie" industry's Buttocks! (just keep your sense of humor handy and you'll do fine!)

Lets face it, break out pieces from the indie industry are few and far between. And when a really great, break out piece does come along, it's only slightly above the level of mediocrity to succeed, and then the producers, writers and directors from those films get sucked up by Hollywood!

I belong to the local "Indieclub", and most of the films I have seen, made by them are not going to change the indie industry. There isn't anything good enough here to do that, unfortunately. And the problem is, none of these filmmakers has yet zeroed in on what it is going to take to change things.

I do know what it is going to take and I have a plan to make it succeed on a very large scale!

By the way, you'll just have to bear with me, and this is only my personal opinion, but I am totally sick and tired of horror movies, zombie movies, vampire movies or movies with the sick killer in the closet ideas. These types of movies are totally saturating the market and INDIE filmmakers need to avoid them if they want this "new independent movie industry."

Rule No. 1: DON'T do what everybody else is doing! Because we MUST do something totally fresh and unique. Yes, that means stepping out on a limb and taking a chance.

Ask yourself a question: When was the last time you saw an indie movie where EVERY seat in the house was occupied? When was the last time you went out and saw an indie film that stayed in theaters more than six months? When was the last time you went to an indie movie where the line for tickets went around the block?

What the indie industry needs to really get going is a HUGE break out piece that is big enough and good enough to not only succeed at all three of those criteria, but actually exceed them!

One flagship film that will get the entire global film industry excited about it!

Now, that would be good for ALL of us, wouldn' it?

But will you be ready to follow it up with another, and another and a stream of quality films?

Even one flagship film like I have described will not do it. For permanent and lasting change, we'll need a stream of quality entertainment to sell to theaters, television and even cell phones.

Ask yourself this question: If the entire indie industry, just across America, were to get behind just ONE huge breakout piece (and I mean every indie filmmaker in the US), how fast do you think that film would get made?

There are millions of indie filmmakers across America! If they knew that this one film would change the industry for the better for all of them, do you think maybe half of them, or a even quarter of them would participate?

But what story? What script? What type of movie?

I believe I have such a script in my possession right now.

No need to take my word for it, because a lot of people "think" they have that kind of script, but really have a piece of crap. It happens; sometimes people think they are better then they really are, or haven't you watched that: "So You Think You Can Dance!"

I "know" we have that script. If made properly, as it can still be screwed up, I believe that the release of this movie in theaters will see lines going around the block, every theater seat filled and remain in theaters for a year or more!

Wouldn't you like to be a part of a movie like that?

Haven't you ever asked yourselves when the next "George Lucas" was going to come along? Or at least, the next "Robert Rodriguez" or "Quentin Tarantino"?

Isn't it about time for another breakout writer/director to come out of the woodwork?

And wouldn't such a writer/director deserve to have his film made? Especially if he, with the indie film community behind him, actually succeeded in changing the industry forever?

It will only take this one film to get the change started. It will take a perpetual stream of many others to keep it going.

Our film is an epic sci-fi/action adventure, with elements that appeal to the "buddy", "horror" and "romance" audiences. It has been meticulously written to have an appeal to the a general audience while catering to diverse tastes at the same time. Kind of like a layered cake!

It fits all the criteria you have read above in this post.

If you'd like to have a peak of what it's all about, plus a not-very-good (needs to be rewritten) synopsis of the film, please visit www.bitnot.com

And I'll share the script only with those who intend on becoming involved with the production.

Now, the one thing, the only thing that is stopping us from getting produced is, yep, the money!

Ye old grease for the wheels of industry!

But, we have everything else. We even have a crack team of VFX artists, a production house and a render farm for the finished VFX. Some iages of the team's work can be seen at the site.

When I come back, I would like to discuss strategies for raising the money for our film. Because anybody who becomes involved at this stage will have to work on helping acquire it.

"No dough, no show!"

Please browse the site and have fun.

I'll be back,

Brian

Loud Orange Cat
08-10-2005, 01:12 PM
The Internet changed everything that we know about film/distribution. For once, the entire populace had one common electronic communication method. it was only a matter of time until film found its way there.

For us indies, without the Internet, none of us would even know the other exists. The top 7 hollywood studios would be our only link to film. For these large studios to boo-hoo the Internet as a valid method for distribution is silly. It's here to stay.

The best part of this is that us indies have the greatest exposure right now. It's Hollywood who's now trying to catch up.

CootDog
08-10-2005, 01:25 PM
Brian... nice post... it turned into a marketing plea.

I think that funches tagline (new indie industry) and his idea are pretty good. Although it seems to be localized, unless there's syndication of the channel. To me, from looking at the site, it's a project that includes a bunch of shorts that tell a specific story, proving a myth or theory is true. I understand that people that create shorts like that and in that genre could fit very well in Funches project.

Brian's idea, making the best indie movie ever, because he has the best script ever, is what most indie filmmakers believe. I wrote a script and I think it's great. I've read scripts that are great. What makes yours the BEST? Why should EVERY indie filmmaker back you on your project with their money. Seems like you're just asking for investors. Most indie fimmakers have small budgets, so asking them for money may not be your best avenue for funding. Help in making it, yes, help with money, no.
I can't wait to see your Best Indie Movie Ever Made that will Change the Indie Filmmaking For the Better, for only those involved with their money, of course. When does principal photography begin?

bird
08-10-2005, 02:19 PM
Ah, is this the BITNOT of which you speak? http://www.indieclub.com/tacoboard/thread.asp?ident=60214200575114320

CootDog
08-10-2005, 02:58 PM
Lol!!! :clap: :rofl: :haha: IndieClub

That is the perfect example of all the bickering, bitching, and childishness at that site. I haven't been there for over a year because of it and just logged in to see the thread posted by Bird. Well Thank you Bird for showing me that THIS IS THE PLACE TO BE!!! :clap:

The other place, is too middle school mentality for me. :lol:

Spatula
08-10-2005, 03:36 PM
Wow. Indieclub. Ick. The only reason I go there is because the Captain posts there often.

Brian: I forsee a problem with your scheme. If ALL the filmmakers join up, how do they get paid/credited? I always thought the less crew the better, because everyone can share in the pie. There would HAVE to be a director, etc, and they would most likely get the big rewards.. this in turn won't actually help anyone but the main players in the project.

The current "industry" and media would no-doubt single out the main players. Hence- you'd have a million PA's working for free with almost no hope at getting paid or getting recognition for the project.

Just posing a scenerio. Do you have a plan for that kind of stuff?

Brian420
08-10-2005, 03:48 PM
Good question. There's hardly any way to prove who's is best. But, we can all put our egos aside and decide to do what is best for the industry instead of competing to prove who has the best script.

Instead of asking that question, ask yourself why you believe your script, if done as a movie, will draw the kind of crowds needed to change the industry?

As for financing OUR film, which, why must it be "ours"? Why not make it "yours" too? The script isn't actually "mine" as such, because I didn't write it. I'm not even a writer. But I know what I like in a movie and I like this one alot.

This one has a lot of visual concepts that have NEVER been seen in any movie, ever. I'm talking about the kind of innovations that are on a par with "bullet time" created for The Matrix movies.

The idea I'm getting at here is to automatically put forth the best possible script, no matter who wrote it. I just happen to believe that it is the one we have.

What you do for just one film, you do for yourself.

One of the possible strategies we discussed was (and this is just brainstorming on our part) to create a series of auctions on Ebay, as some have dabbled with before, but with the difference being that each "item" represents a different level of "Sponsorship of a SciFi Feature Length Movie". And you get a "one of a kind bonus item" when the bid reaches a certain level. Some of the bonus items will include one of a kind props, signed and numbered copies of the script or a limited edition print by Kelly Freas (google his name).

Because if there are millions of "indies" out there, then a single dollar from each one could finance our film (relatively speaking). And why not get something that could become "collectible" for your money besides?

All it takes is good promotion of such an idea to make it successful.

But of course we would not consider this the sole source of financing if we did it. But perhaps use it as a springboard to attratc the attention of additional investment.

I would never ask other filmmakers to put their money into our project, no matter how much good it will do for everybody in the industry.

Instead I would invite "partners" to come on as "co-executive" producers to help acquire the money for the film.

And by the way, I must admit I am fairly new to this production company and joined them about nine months ago on the strength of the script and even signed my name as one of the "officers" of the newly formed LLC.

I noticed that somebody posted something that refers to the past before I came on board. I'll just say that the past is the past and it doesn't resemble the present or the future of this company. It's now under new management, so any resemblence to anything from the past is the result of very strong drugs, alien abduction, or temporary insanity.

We have a very good product here, a well developed project, a winning business plan and an incredibly talented team of pros.

And I just feel it in my bones that this is one of those projects that's not like all of the others.

Till the next chimes,

Brian

bird
08-10-2005, 04:22 PM
Okkaaaaay, thought I was doing y'al a service, I could have posted a link to a really bad-ass thread (possibly not, probably deleted) where a rep of said film tried to obliterate another member' project, but, well...since you guys choose to belittle my post.....I won't be posting any more pertinent info about it...


It's now under new management, so any resemblence to anything from the past is the result of very strong drugs, alien abduction, or temporary insanity.

:lol: Paul, is that You?...cause it sure SOUNDS like you?

spinner
08-10-2005, 05:28 PM
...I realize that I don't have as much experience in independent film as most of the post-ers on this site, but...and let me put this as diplomatically as possible: Are you crazy? :abduct:

...as much as I would love to be able to give money to folks on the boards who seem to have talent and a great story to tell, how would I get my film made if I did that? Do people actually fund films this way? I am asking seriously, because I would think not. I have seen a few posts, usually by persons who have only made one post, trying to fund their projects this way.

...I have seen good ideas, some good trailers, and not that I'm not a wonderful and generous person with a heart of gold :D but $50 bucks will purchase some mini dv stock, so how much sense would it make to turn it over to an idea I am not familiar with? Am I to just turn it over?

...we ALL have things we need to fund and want to push and that we feel will change the film industry as we know it, but DAMN! Everyone here has to fund their own projects, and as highly as I feel about you all on this site and as much as I like you guys, what sense would it make for you to fund my film as opposed to funding your own project? I feel as if you are great people here, but I don't see myself as EVER asking ANY of you to fund my film in lieu of funding your own project.

...I don't know if that makes me a selfish b**ch, but geez, shouldn't you want to get your own project made? sorry if this sounds like a rant... I'm all for industry reform, but....geez.... If we all do great things artistically, doesn't that help our cause and in turn begin to change things? Hasn't Pulp Fiction done that? Or Memento? Or Boys Don't Cry?.... (i do feel selfish in saying this, maybe I just don't get it...)

--spinner :cool:

SirLaosson
08-10-2005, 08:19 PM
I don't know if that makes me a selfish b**ch,
--spinner :cool:

It doesn't

Question

How much of your budget do you have?

funches
08-11-2005, 08:49 AM
hey Directorik
it seems you are becoming the master of mis-quotes...could you please use the quote button and show me where in any of my posts that I said the plan was on my website? and that I asked any filmmaker to buy anything?..I know filmmakers don't have any money but they have enough brain power and talent as if to form into a collective could get anything accomplish and that is what I was seeking , I attempted to explain briefly what the plan was on this site under "Financing..Classified Ads" and the thread is called :Seeking A Finanicier of Horror" inwhich even there you express the same mis-quotes, this would not be a problem to me but it seems you expressed the same mis-quotes on another forum I posted to on the internet...so to be sure I went back and re-read all my posts and I still couldn't find where I said those things...so I await for you to point it out to me...er..you know a snitch in time will save from posting nine...you are displaying the first stages of "kill the messenger" syndrome

Brian420
08-11-2005, 09:08 AM
It does seem like others posting in this forum are twisting both our words. To make it perfectly clear I'll repeat that I have mentioned two ways we are looking for others to participate in our production. We are seeking an individual to come on as "co-executive producer" in addition to maybe holding an auction where you actually BUY something you want.

No one ever said anything about "giving your money away".

directorik
08-11-2005, 09:52 AM
hey Directorik
it seems you are becoming the master of mis-quotes...could you please use the quote button and show me where in any of my posts that I said the plan was on my website? and that I asked any filmmaker to buy anything?..I know filmmakers don't have any money but they have enough brain power and talent as if to form into a collective could get anything accomplish and that is what I was seeking , I attempted to explain briefly what the plan was on this site under "Financing..Classified Ads" and the thread is called :Seeking A Finanicier of Horror" inwhich even there you express the same mis-quotes, this would not be a problem to me but it seems you expressed the same mis-quotes on another forum I posted to on the internet...so to be sure I went back and re-read all my posts and I still couldn't find where I said those things...so I await for you to point it out to me...er..you know a snitch in time will save from posting nine...you are displaying the first stages of "kill the messenger" syndrome
I was very interested in your plan. I asked for information and was directed to the website.

My intent was only to get more information to see if this is something my company would be willing to invest in. Without knowing details about this interesting idea I can't make an informed decision.

I apologize for misquoting you.

funches
08-11-2005, 01:36 PM
hey Directorik
you are doing it again, you say I have an interesting plan but that I have fail to give you the information that you need to make a decision...but when you first replied to my post you never introduced your company or anything about it, so then I went to your website and still nothing about your company, most production companies i run into ususally consist of two people and they have no money, you know more about me than I known about your company, with the kind of decisions I see you making on this forum I not assure if your company could handle a project like the one I have in mind..maybe you should send me the information that I would need to make that decision or least place it on your site like you keep suggesting to me

directorik
08-11-2005, 02:15 PM
hey Directorik
you are doing it again, you say I have an interesting plan but that I have fail to give you the information that you need to make a decision...but when you first replied to my post you never introduced your company or anything about it, so then I went to your website and still nothing about your company, most production companies i run into ususally consist of two people and they have no money, you know more about me than I known about your company, with the kind of decisions I see you making on this forum I not assure if your company could handle a project like the one I have in mind..maybe you should send me the information that I would need to make that decision or least place it on your site like you keep suggesting to me
Fair enough, funches.

I'm sure you're correct - this isn't a project my company could handle. I apologize for wasting your time.

-rik

funches
08-11-2005, 03:33 PM
The Internet changed everything that we know about film/distribution. For once, the entire populace had one common electronic communication method. it was only a matter of time until film found its way there.

For us indies, without the Internet, none of us would even know the other exists. The top 7 hollywood studios would be our only link to film. For these large studios to boo-hoo the Internet as a valid method for distribution is silly. It's here to stay.

The best part of this is that us indies have the greatest exposure right now. It's Hollywood who's now trying to catch up.

yes mrde50
the Internet makes this an even playing field, it is capable of linking everything together to create another venue for Independent movies, eventually the internet would move to the television screen and web pages replaced with video

learnfilmonline
08-11-2005, 05:03 PM
Funches, I totally understand what your going through, and really appreciate poeple like you. Before I blow up, and get crazy up in here I just want to say that I respect all of you, and without most of you my stuff wouldn't even get out there. (And this does not apply to those who sent me movies.) Ok So two and half years ago I started this Tv Show VegasIndiesTV, I've been struggling so hard to get movies it's not even funny. O ya this show is about giving the indy crowd there exposre think of a film fest on TV. Ok so when I started this show, i charged 20 per submission, and this show was airing on UPN not some wack cable access you know where the simpsons play. After I did that I got sweated by many people, so I dropped the fee and made it free, yes I did get some films dont get me wrong but dam is it that hard to pay like 2 dollars and ship it to me. My point is it seems like everyone is all about themsleves and i know this because I don't know how many people I help with letting them borrow my 3500 dollar light kit, and then they still ask for more when I want something from them. But it's all good, because i love to help people. So I feel your pain when you try to start something everyone starts to jump down your throat, i just want to say that I support what your doing, and I really think you should think about Las Vegas not because I live here because we are finally getting a buzz out here. I just got finished with the 48 hour film project, and this was the first year. I'm really trying to network my ass out here, and so far I have some connections with Brenden the dude that owns the movie theaters, and the dude that co owns Cosco if any of you have a Cosco where you live you know what I'm saying. But as of right now i'm nobody , i've made a few shorts, I have a tv show. But with help and time things will get there. So drop me a line if you wanna chat about anything. And keep pushing who cares what people say. To the next Hollywood.

directorik
08-11-2005, 06:46 PM
I hope you aren't referring to me, vegas. I seriously wanted info so I could decide if there was anything I could do to help.

And it seems no one here is jumping down funches throat. There appears to be genuine interest and some very thoughtful challenges. Nothing wrong with asking questions and challenging ideas.

Or so I thought.

knightowl
08-11-2005, 08:39 PM
Speaking of information, Rik... Did you get my email regarding the information I sent you about my film project?

Looking forward to your reply.

Jeff

directorik
08-11-2005, 08:59 PM
Speaking of information, Rik... Did you get my email regarding the information I sent you about my film project?

Looking forward to your reply.

Jeff
Recieved and replied. Both of them.

Sorry it took me so long - I'm prepping for a September shoot.

Spatula
08-11-2005, 10:16 PM
Let's not fight, gents.

I have a question, Funches.
Is your plan only pertaining to Horror/Sci-fi, or will it include other genres as well?
Do you have equipment already, or are you looking for equipment?
What kind of shooting format? MiniDV or the elusive and sexy HD?
Do you have scripts? Do you NEED scripts?
Do you have investors?
When do you want to do this?
Where do you want to do this?
Is it a one-time event, or an on-going "club" of filmmakers?
What are the requirements for consideration of joining? Do you need to have a certain level of experience?
Will people be paid for services? Accomodations? Travel?
Is there travel involved or are filmmakers able to participate from thier native home?

Wow. More than one question. I think we need more information to mull about before any serious interests will arise.

Just trying to help. I think you have a good idea, it just needs to be worked out.

learnfilmonline
08-12-2005, 08:15 AM
There is no fighting at all I just have an opinion, and sometimes the way you guys say things can bring someone down thats trying to do something good. Because It's happene to me before. Thats all no biggie. I'm just giving him the support. Good Luck.

funches
08-12-2005, 10:40 PM
Ah vegasindiestv
the horror stories of resistance I could tell you, but you are on the right path to one of the phases that’s needed to help create this venue. But because I may have to raise my own finances is why I must do phase one of the project in a way as to bring attention to it.

This explains why I have localized in Chicago as to have better control over it, the advertisement and finances that are raised can be better utilized by concentrating them into a given area to achieve maximum results, everyone and everything that is needed to produce the movie exist in Chicago, I simply have to find them, but I have been contacted by others in the USA and around the world that compose music, special effects etc.and like to participate in this project because they expressed that the plan is so weird and may draw so much attention that they see how It would benefit them..

The Ailanthus Chamber is a movie that is design to be produced in a way that Hollywood wouldn't do, as this may be a way to draw extra attention to it, it will be big production, low budget, no computer generated creatures, everything made and animated by hand and probably shot in a format that the average Joe could afford, maybe mini-dv, or some form of digital video so the look can be manipulated but no HD, but with the majority of the finances to be used for advertisement and placing it in Chicago’s theaters


the movie alone couldn't create by itself another venue. but other things, events and circus type atmosphere built around the movie mixed with a massive focus well timed advertisement campaign is designed to do that and possible if needed draw interested investors

Ten Chicago bands and ten Chicago nightclubs come into play as they are used to activate the chamber as one part of a massive pre-movie advertisement campaign designed to draw attention to the upcoming movie release

Ten unknown Chicago bands that having trouble selling CD and getting good gigs and looking for exposure and Ten Chicago nightclubs that looking for a way to bring in more business both of these forces combined could bring in some good financing

So the first step is to spread the legend of the Ailanthus Chamber throughout Chicago afterwards hold the concert with ten bands in ten nightclubs placed throughout the city and all simultaneously playing an unique resonant sound at the peak of evil (rush hour) that according to the legend will activate the chamber and with well placed advertisement will make this become a big event in Chicago, at this time it would have achieved maximum exposure, this is the time to announce the release of the movie into Chicago theaters

here some facts about the movie:.. in the movie the concert never took place because the Antishun wiped out most of the band members

Confused? Then read the post in “Financing Classified Ads” under the thread “Seeking a financier of horror” or just go to http://www.geocities.com/funchesfilms/index.html read the story and see the Antishun and become more confused .. this is only phase one of The Ailanthus Chamber Project, the internet plays a major part in linking everything up

learnfilmonline
08-13-2005, 12:58 AM
Cool Sounds interesting, Good Luck with this.

Shot Renegade
08-13-2005, 03:27 AM
I generally get the impression that if you have the time to post A4 spreads of blurb / rant / etc you're spending more time on this board and less time actually doing stuff and making stuff and making it work. I've been around too many people who are just full of 'Hot Air' as in... it's gonna be great... it's gonna be great... hype and then just get to the stage where they just fade away. They've had their 15 mins of fame and now they can't be bothered anymore. So don't blurb and blah about it until you've got some feasable way of doing it is my advice. Hype. Hmmm... I get the feeling that in the time it takes to get an Independent film market on the same level as hollywood film would probably have one of the lowest places in the entertainment market - Computer Games are getting scarily popular. But ho hum...

clive
08-13-2005, 04:30 AM
There have been quite a lot of good points raised in this thread.

Indie filmmakers often feel that the main separation that they have from the industry is in two key areas, funding and distribution. The usual complaint is that if we could just get adaquate access to funding and distribution we would be sucessful and along with that we complain that somehow the "industry" is keeping us from getting those two things.

One possible way of cracking the funding/distribution issue is to turn your back on the mainstream industry and find a direct link to audiences. The thinking behind this is that this will be easier than trying to make your money back from the existing industry. I've been working on a business model for this for the last year, and I think that on ultra low budget movies (below $15,000) it might be possible to self DVD's directly from a website profitably providing that the films have good marketing. My belief is that DVD sales would have to be supported by a global network of digital indie cinemas, which would have the sole job of promoting the film. (In real terms all this involves is a change in the sales agreement for the DVD, instead of restricting public showings the buyer would be given permission to project the filmor show it in public places, with no additional fees). This would mean that the filmmaker wouldn't attempt to earn from the indie cinemas, giving the indie cinema owner a chance to make a profit. The idea is that local cinema promotion would drive direct DVD sales. The only way to make something like this work is to have a enough feature lenght films available on DVD to fill an indie cinema's annual programme, assuming that they'd show a minimum of once a month. In real terms you need twelve feature films ready to go and twelve film makers committed to this process, plus 50 or 60 filmmakers worldwide prepared to run indie cinemas in their local communities. If I was intersted in making sub $15,000 films I'd do this (But I'm not)

The problem with these kind of schemes is that although they create the possiblitiy of an alternative market, they'll only support ultra low budget films. Vegas has a very valid point when he says that he's currently struggling to find enough films to provide free TV broadcast. I'm not convinced that there are enough sub $15,000 feature films worth watching and an indie cinema netwrok would have to have nothing but excellent films.

The truth is that for the indie feature film maker the real money isn't in self distribution, it's in international TV sales into existing TV markets. These kind of sales require an experienced sales agent, but represent a real opportunity for indie filmmakers to make a living from low budget productions, along side direct to DVD distribution handled via the industry.

The real issue for indie filmakers is neither funding or distribution. It's marketing. The other two follow on from that. If an indie filmaker can create enough public interest in their film they can get sales (either direct or via mainstream distribution). My personal opinion is that any feature film that starts it's life without a marketing strategy is almost doomed to gather dust at the end of production. (I speak from experience here) As indies we don't need a new industry we need more business skills and to get over the idea that we are somehow seperate from the industry. Whether we like it or not, we are the industry. We just haven't estqablished ourselves as a recognisable brand with teh film going/buying public.

One thing I do know is that as indies we have to be careful where we put our time and energy. Starting a new industry sounds like an appealing, easier option than learning how to suceed in the existing one, but actually it's not. The advantage that the existing industry has is that it already has links with a sufficiently large audience to make the maths work in our favor. What we need to do is to look at the business advantages we have over existing production companies. Personally I think it's in our experience of low/no budget production and our embracing of new production technology. If we focus on making great films and learning how those films can fill exisiting gaps in the industry we stand a great chance of sucess.

And one final point. The thing about film forums is that you never really know who you are speaking too and what their position in the industry really is. This is a small industry and one that lives and dies on personal relationships. It kind of makes sense here to treat everyone with respect, because one day you may be sitting across a desk from them pitching your project. :cool:

funches
08-13-2005, 11:59 AM
well Shot Renagade..I figure I would just waste time here posting in the hopes that maybe I could find enough people in Chicago that may be interested in this project to get it started and silly me thought that posting on this forum was the way to do it but I guess if I just sit in the house and wish hard enough little elves will bring them

directorik
08-13-2005, 12:12 PM
Excellent post, clive.

I’m working with several companies that are financing and distributing small movies ($10,000 to $80,000). The two biggest problems are exactly what you mention:

1- Good, watchable product
2- Marketing

The money is there, the outlets are there, the audience is there. The good product isn’t and marketing isn’t.

The advent of cheap, high quality production and editing equipment hasn’t made the final product better. In fact the product has gotten worse. Now a movie maker can finish a feature length movie for well under $2,000.

I just finished a really “hard sell” movie - noir thriller with no names and no “hook” - and suddenly I have distributors calling me. I’ve never been in this position before. It’s because I have a watchable product.

Hell, I’ve been making crappy DTV horror movies for 20 years. No one gives a damn about the final product, but it sells and I make some money.

Direct marketing is a new, interesting way of getting movies out there. But it comes down to one main issue: marketing.

funches
08-13-2005, 12:59 PM
yes vegasindiestv, you have the right idea, now what if there were 50 or more shows like yours linked to a central website, there is an audience for Independent movies that know and don't expect these movies to be the quality of hollywood but know that they are capable of being just as entertaining, I played a 30 minute program called Stange Video on a cable station and sold 32 videos of that program, what if that same video played on 50 of these channels or 100 of these channels around the country all linked to a website..there are always things that can be done, the only stepping stone is finding people to do it, which is possible

learnfilmonline
08-14-2005, 01:34 AM
Yes I agree with you guys, and Clive you nailed it right. We are the industry, basically we just have to make better shit come up with better stories and we are in. But it's all about the marketing get your name out there look at Sonnyboo, you guys know who I'm talking about. He's the master of marketing. So lets make some films.....

summer05
08-14-2005, 03:19 AM
This site is a good place for early writers, or students of any subject, to exchange ideas. It’s just like the café near my school except that I don’t have to brush my teeth to think out loud here.

I've been around too many people who are just full of 'Hot Air' – I am sorry for that.

The exchange of ideas: not the same as blowing hot air. I could guess your politics (Fascist.) If you don’t think you are fascists, you should think about it some more.

Sorry for the aggression, just returned from a trip to our nations capitol where I sat with Thomas Jefferson for a couple of hours. I am now thinking of writing a screenplay starring George Washington. But I think I will save it for when I can assure a 180 million dollar budget. That would come after all the screenplays I sell get me some notoriety so that I can do whatever I want.

clive
08-14-2005, 05:12 AM
I’m working with several companies that are financing and distributing small movies ($10,000 to $80,000). The two biggest problems are exactly what you mention:

1- Good, watchable product
2- Marketing

The money is there, the outlets are there, the audience is there. The good product isn’t and marketing isn’t.

The advent of cheap, high quality production and editing equipment hasn’t made the final product better. In fact the product has gotten worse. Now a movie maker can finish a feature length movie for well under $2,000.

I think that what this really proves is that Filmjumper is essentially right, that people are not paying enough attention to the sales value of thier scripts. Productions costs really aren't the issue any more.

The one place that the indie industry really needs to put more effort is into script development. The problem with this is that everyone thinks that they can write, and that they are an undiscovered and misunderstood genius. This attitude makes them blind to the faults in their own work. (I'm as guilty as anyone else in this respect).

Good scripts that can be summed up in one sentence that will go on a DVD cover, with an idea that will make people want to see the movie, even if it's got no stars. That's the key.

funches
08-14-2005, 12:09 PM
visit any other filmmaking forum and you probably find the same marketing ideas being discuss which if there were the financing backing these ideas could be carried out, it is time to discuss new ideas to find this financing backing, or find a way to do it without this backing and draw the backing to it,

as the movie project I designed in a way as to bring so much attention to it in Chicago that it would draw financiers, why not use a similar technique?, as we speak of writing better scripts and better quality movies do some exist already?, the search for the best independent movie will galvanized or at least focus attention on the Independent filmmaking community,

when this movie is chosen it must be backed by everyone (well at least most) in the community, it must be recommended to others, a trailer played on all the television shows of independent filmmakers, a trailer placed on the end of all filmmakers DVD’s, placed on everyone’s website, the trailer placed on sites that have streaming video, even placed on cable access shows and this movie billed as the best independent movie made this year or something like that, and for some of the other good movies that were not chosen but are just as good their movie trailers could be placed on the DVD as a recommendation to buy them,

what ever movie is chosen will result such a controversy that would cause everyone to want to watch it or buy it or burn it, with millions in the independent filmmakers community recommendation or possible loathing of this movie it would bring in so much attention that the makers of this movie will easily make a million dollars and that would give this community power, and when any force has the power to make someone into a millionaire it will draw serious financiers and create a industry, it would also give filmmakers the insentive to produce better movies,

but whatever is done it is time to take some action, discussion is nice but as many in this forum pointed out it will begin to fizzle

clive
08-14-2005, 02:07 PM
when this movie is chosen it must be backed by everyone (well at least most) in the community

I agree that spreading the collective word on good indie movies is in everyone's best interest, but I think you're aiming your marketing at the wrong people. The indie filmmaking community by itself is too small to represent a real opportunity to get a return on your film. It's the film buying public, the arthouse cinema goers, the TV watchers that really matter.
Ultimately for the indie filmaker you are marketing your film to just a couple of hundred people, the buyers for the distribution companies, the sales agents and the press. The distribution companies just want to believe that they can make a return from your film, the TV buyers want to see more back from advertising than it cost to buy your film and the press need an angle that well help them sell more papers/magazines and to advertising onto their radio/TV station.
I read somewhere that once you get past the surface all jobs are basically sales jobs. This is doubly true in the film industry. The reason that so many indies struggle to get pictures made and distributed is because they pay insufficient attention to what's involved in selling.
Actually selling is really easy providing you know the rules.
1) If you don't speak to people about your product they won't buy it
2) If you don't speak to the people who are in a position to say yes to the sale they won't buy it (In sales this person is called the decision maker, this is the person who can yes to the buy, whereas everyone below them can only say no)
3) If you don't understand what it is about your product that is going to help the buyer achieve their personal/professional goals and ambitions you won't make a sale.
4) If you listen to a person long enough, instead of taliking, eventually they'll tell you what they need to hear to buy from you.
5) If someone is prepared to sit across a desk from you 99% of the time they are prepared to buy if the deal is right.
6) Know what your bottom line price is before you walk through the door and don't drop below that unless they put something on the table that make no impossible (No body respects someone who doesn't value their product)

The thing about htis formula is that it applies equally to investors as it does to distributors. Failure to find either funding or distribution is about not having one of the above steps covered.

So,
a) If you haven't actually asked anyone for funding/distribution (waiting of the magic elves), you won't get it
b) If you waste your time ptiching to people who have neither the authority or the ability to say yes to funding or distribution you won't get it. So, If you take send your gore horror film to a distributor who only distributes family animation, guess what.
c) If you don't understand how the investor/distributor is going to make a profit from your film then your pitch about the gorund braking cinematograpy is going to acheive nothing. 99% of the time understand how the distributor makes their profit is the key to selling.
d) If you don't know, but are prepared to ask simple grown up questions like "So, what do need from a movie for it to rock your world?" you might make a sale.
e) It's really true that every funder is looking for the golden goose and every distributor is looking for the next big thing, and they really want it to be you, other wise they wouldn't bother talking to you.
f) A film is worth what someone will pay for it, if you roll over on whatever price is offered rather than being seen as accomodating the value of the product will come under question.


I know for myself that I can look at the above list and tell you exactly why I haven't got either funding or distribution for my next film. Not enough of 1 or 2 because I haven't got a clear hook on 3.

I'm telling you baby the same is true of most indies. Not enough face to face converstaions with the right people with the right products to offer them.

Bottom line is that what I'm saying is that before anyone goes out and trys to invent a new indsutry maybe we should learn how to do business in this one. Or at least have the common sense to recognise that we don't have those skills and form working relationships with producers who do have those skills.

funches
08-14-2005, 03:59 PM
my last post is not about brown-nosing a fianancier, it's about if the Independent filmmakers are really a community or just a fable and in reality each person is out for themselves, which seems the case so far
...and speaking of fables let me explain my last post another way...let's say those little elves granted me one wish , and the wish was that everyone that was a part of the independent filmmaking community which totals in the millions agreed to use all their resouces to push one Independent movie that is already made but went no where in the festivals or whatever...and they would use all their resources like websites, cable shows, tatoo on the back of their head etc. to accomplish this,
in other words the community with these in your face actions at the public would be the advertisment... but in reality once human emotions is factor in there would be so much in fighting by those for and against the chosen movie or feel like their movie should have been in the running that the controversy about the movie would bring so much attention to it that the movie would still sell ...not saying to do this or even if it would work ..just an idea

Spatula
08-14-2005, 04:54 PM
OH! Now I understand it, Funches.

I think you might be on to something...

Like, for example, if every film production site joined a sort of "webring" where one independent film would be featured each month. Filmmakers could submit films to the ring, and each month a new film would be featured. The filmmakers could submit thier films to be featured.

You should get a website started, Funches, with the idea of featuring one indie film a month, and having banner/link exchanges with all filmmakers.

That'd be a way to start, and if it starts to do well, you could get money for larger scale advertising of films and the website itself.

Hmm.. I can see now a little more clearly where you're going...

learnfilmonline
08-14-2005, 10:41 PM
Talk is great doing is much greater....

CootDog
08-14-2005, 10:43 PM
That's pretty cool, actually... An independant movie ring... that 1 movie would be promoted on all the filmmakers sites for one month.. then the next movie and so-on.

I can see problems with it but the good out weighs the bad...

learnfilmonline
08-15-2005, 12:14 AM
I agree...

Shot Renegade
08-15-2005, 01:37 AM
Talk is great doing is much greater....

Vegas, you've summed up what I said earlier in a much needed sentance. Thank you. That's what I meant about 'Hot Air'... it's all very well talking about these things, but I've had this conversation over and over and over and... its starting to get me edgy.

clive
08-15-2005, 02:47 AM
my last post is not about brown-nosing a fianancier

Well at least I now know why you can't get your pictures funded. You can't tell the difference between pitching a mutually beneficial business deal and ass kissing. (By the way distributors and investors hate ass kissing, it's not good business)

it's about if the Independent filmmakers are really a community or just a fable and in reality each person is out for themselves, which seems the case so far


All you need to disprove the idea that it's all everyone is just out for themselves is for you to offer to promote someone elses movie for free in order to set up your alternative industry. Lead by example man, after all you are the man with the plan. Or is this all just hot air?

I don't think this is going to happen, because I think that the root of this is that it's easier to blame the industry for not recognising you and to then to blame the rest of the film making community for not supporting you, as the causes of your lack of sucess, rather than doing the work to get that sucess.

Of course I could be wrong and I'll be the first to apologise if you actually take someone elses film and make a sucess of marketing it.

funches
08-15-2005, 12:42 PM
Yes I may have a plan and a simply plan but first let me show an example of the concept that I have in mind…Since there is no big money we must find a way to turn this disadvantage into an advantage

But first we will need a sacrificial lamb to test this concept, I choose Shot Renegade, He’s always claiming that nothing gets done, and every time I go to his website it always have…under construction

Now what if every member on this site committed to visiting his site everyday or at least every time he posted here and see what if anything changed

What do you believe will be the results of this action?
Will he make his site work, will he rant less in his post and offer options, will he not change and keep his site as it is? Even that action would tell you something, will more people visit this site?, and if his site do get to working, will this make everyone look forward to surf thru the site, will this put Shot Renegade in the lime light now and people wish to know of his projects, will a financier be more incline to finance his projects

The test was that we took the disadvantage of Shot Renegade's negativity and turn it into an advantage, every time someone read this post they may visit his site, maybe even a financier or distributor if he has a movie, but It would have some type of effect that the results could be predicted

But this is only an example to help explain the concept and not meant to be carried out, it was used to help to explain the power that already exist… when that power is focus..

And was this a free way to promote something?....no.. because even this site is not 100 percent free, nothing is free if may cost you something, I’m just saying that if you can’t get a financier find another way to do things

Thirdrailbe
08-15-2005, 01:50 PM
As hard as it is to break into movie making this seems like a great idea! If we all combine or resouces we could knock hollywood on its a**. Remember people at one time independent filmmakers saved Hollywood although today you would never know it! :grumpy:

bird
08-15-2005, 02:36 PM
I know I said I wouldn't make any additional posts in this thread, but this one is not about BITNOT.

Funches, IMO, your thread may propose an interesting model for distributing indie works (perhaps a little fascist, as alluded to earlier). But the one thing it is, is self-serving. From what I can tell, all your posts seek funding. These boards are made for discussing other aspects of the artform, not just self-promotion. Why not use that energy to actually work on your film. I know one, definitive way to revolutionize Indie filmmaking, SHOW us something we could never have imagined in a million years. But, if your intention is to change indie industry/business then use your energy and methodology to unionize, thereby having the power to (as Clive said) change the "Industry" from the indside out.

funches
08-15-2005, 03:17 PM
Geez..now I understand what BITNOT has to go thru

spinner
08-15-2005, 09:09 PM
...first, I want to say that I'm glad this thread is still here as I have not been for a few days. And I am glad that this is really about some ideas to improve all our chances to get our stuff seen and not a pitch for money as I thought it was initially. Hey, I can admit when I misunderstand something, which brings me to this...

Like, for example, if every film production site joined a sort of "webring" where one independent film would be featured each month. Filmmakers could submit films to the ring, and each month a new film would be featured. The filmmakers could submit thier films to be featured.

FUNCHES... this isn't what I thought you meant...

...if this is what you meant, then part of the problem is maybe you aren't being clear, (I have been away so I am reading the thread quickly so I can remember what I want to say :blush: ) IF you mean rally around A FILM, not necessarily YOUR FILM, then I can see how your intent is to really come up with a way to change things and that is an important thing....

...people aren't necessarily just out for themselves, people ARE wary of anything that sounds to esoteric or too philosophical in terms of making decisions that are going to CHANGE THEIR LIVES. Nobody wants to get taken or put money into anything that is going to have no return. You aren't up against people being out for themselves so much as you are against people who are being practical about something they already have to be philosophical about, which is making movies. (does that make sense?)

...the idea of reform and everyone pulling together is good, however, how do we do this? I know if I were to be involved, I would want direct steps. What do we do first? Who do we talk to? Do we have to start from the ground up? Maybe there is no one to talk to because its a new idea. How much time can I/do I have to put into this? And more importantly: Are there people around me who will commit to this and not punk out when things don't happen overnight.

...change is good, but the RISK is quite daunting. There is safety in numbers, though, the more people committed to the idea, the better the chances...

--spinner :cool:

clive
08-16-2005, 01:43 AM
Just to do a little market research, hands up any one on this thread who believes that by agreeing to visit Shot Renegade's website twice a day for the next year we will magically bring about a new era of independent filmmaking, where we will all have distributors and investors banging on our doors?

funches
08-16-2005, 06:29 AM
...hey...er..Clive...perhaps you just didn't read the post about the (Shot Renegade Experiment) clearly,remember in my post I used the words, that this is an example, a test, a concept , an example to help explain the concept?.......hey, Bird understood that it was only an example...well maybe ...Clive the post was only an example but since you mention Shot Renegade"s site in your post, I think I will visit it and see it anything has changed...

clive
08-16-2005, 07:38 AM
...hey...er..Clive...perhaps you just didn't read the post about the (Shot Renegade Experiment) clearly,remember in my post I used the words, that this is an example, a test, a concept , an example to help explain the concept?

So it's an example. An example of what? If it's not relelvant to your approach, why use it as an example?

The problem I have with your whole approach to this is that you are saying nothing at all. It's all smoke and mirrors.

You say you want a new industry but fail to explain how it's going to work or how people can participate. When people pressed you on it you give an "example." When I point out that the example is beyond idiotic, you say "Hey, it's just an example." You can't have it all ways. Either publish a strategy here that people can look and and form opinions about or shut up and stop wasting everyone's time.

And by the way, unless you are a mind reader you've got no way of knowing what I do or don't read. And, if you are mind reader tune into what I'm thinking right now!

Did you get that?

bird
08-16-2005, 07:49 AM
Bird understood that it was only an example...well maybe

Well, first, you're not going to draw any allies with derogatory remarks.

Whether you know it or not, your 'concept' is simply socialism applied to a particular practical study...filmmaking. Past working models of socialism have, pretty much, failed (I'm making no judgement on it's theoretical idealism), most probably because we humans have an basic, reptilian instinct to survive (which is not conducive to 'loving/helping thy neighbor).

You say your 'model' will help all of us and that it was not your intention to use your work as a flagship....The only posts you've made here are on your own threads: An Invitation to a Strange Chicago Scriptwriter (apparentlly you haven't EVEN WRITTEN this masterpiece you want the rest of us to bank), 2)Seeking a Financier of Horror, and this thread. With this posting record, it says to me that you're not interested in discourse but in financing your film under the guise of 'this will be good for us all'. Perhaps...in a perfect world.

funches
08-16-2005, 10:08 AM
..er..Clive if you get any more hostile, I’m afraid this place may need a moderator…oops you are one…er..sorry my bad.

look Clive, let me try to explain things so you maybe can grasp them because some ideas or examples are only idiotic if you can’t comprehend them

first I started a thread called “It’s time for a new Independent movie industry”
hey I figure people are making these things why not create a way to do something with them instead of letting spiders built their webs on them but what I’m hearing now is that most Independent Movies are not of good quality and need better scripts

but by promoting those Independent Movies that are good and worth watching (which is in the eye of the beholder) it would bring light to help created a venue for Independent movies and give the incentive to others to create better movies

but since everyone keeps saying it would take big money to do that and since this appears to be the main stumbling block in the way...I just said if you cannot get someone to fund this type of project that maybe another way should be sought how to do this, hey I figure I have some ideas or you have ideas or others have some ideas in which some type of plan to start could be formulated

but Clive you are acting like the Topic was “BEHOLD FOR I HAVE COMETH AND WILL CREATE A NEW INDEPENDENT MOVIE INDUSTRY” you are trying to shift the burden of untold ages upon me, your common sense should factor in that it will take the combined skills of everyone..even your market research skills if any.. and it may call upon you to think beyond your film school programming

but Clive, don’t you feel that your hostility may cause some people not to share their thoughts and ideas in the fear that you may attack them?…it is possible…but you could help neutralize that possibility by placing a positive idea of yours on this subject of creating a new independent movie industry

and Bird..well like I thought, you didn't understand ..also I'm not here to form allies, that sounds like war, I'm here to share ideas either this needs to be done or it don't even so this thread is providing valuable information as to why nothing gets done and why it is every person for themselves and Bird it seems that you are doing the attacking, you get what you give

bird
08-16-2005, 11:13 AM
These are your words, Funches....I think I understand EXACTLY what your motives are.

this is an invitation to write the script for one of the strangest movies ever conceived, about a creepy little unknown legend called " The Ailanthus Chamber"

involvement in this project would insure your place in this Industry

sorry to get cocky but I’m looking for those that know they are the best in their ability this is the only way this project will activate,

The Ailanthus Chamber Movie is in reality a plan to launch a New Independent Movie and Music industry that would be based in Chicago and create hundreds of jobs and then branch out.

The Ailanthus Chamber Project is a plan that with the production of one movie and other events could launch a new Indepedent Movie Industry

AND you added revolutionizing the music industry (didn't see that at first). Continuiing to insult me further degrades your argument. So, I'll again :rolleyes: , sign out of this thread.

John@Bophe
08-16-2005, 11:44 AM
but Clive, don’t you feel that your hostility may cause some people not to share their thoughts and ideas in the fear that you may attack them?…



Funches...this won't be a problem for Clive. He is a well respected contributing member to this forum.

funches
08-16-2005, 12:17 PM
Bird, I had the privilege or the nightmare of reading some of your posts,..it seems you just float around from thread to thread posting pyscho-babble .. or maybe I haven't been here long enough to be able to decipher them, still like to hear some of your ideas, if needed someone could translate them for me.. maybe you need to stick to proofreading newbies first posts

Spatula
08-16-2005, 12:31 PM
That's low, funches. Real low. :no:

Zensteve
08-16-2005, 12:40 PM
Funches... please buy this book (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0671723650/qid=1124213934/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-2914987-4347017?v=glance&s=books&n=507846) and read it. :rolleyes:

SirLaosson
08-16-2005, 12:49 PM
I been watching this thread since it started. funches Bird is right... It's so easy to put your plan in motion you don't need help from others. Just start it up and people will come. But if your not going to do it I will it only will take $93.24 for a website for a year and time. With all do respect It did sound like you was selling something at first.

learnfilmonline
08-16-2005, 01:32 PM
Wow attack of the forum, hey this could be a movie joking.. I somewhat agree with Funches, i do know that sometimes,yes all of you seem to hit the attack button when someones got an idea, or just trying to do something. Who cares if hes trying to get funding for his movies, hey why not. All I know is that we don't support each other as filmmakers enough, and you can all copy and paste this, turn into a quote whatever... We need each other to make things happen. So lets end it and lets hear what funches needs and has for ideas. To much time has been spent on arguing rather than creating. Sometimes it's better to listen, than to open your mouth. Sorry if you guys get mad, but i kind of feel what Funches feels. MAke movies yahooooooo

funches
08-16-2005, 02:58 PM
MONEY-O-PHOBIA=the fear that someone else will make money and you won't

...er..People.. can someone please tell me how I'm going to make some money?..because I cannot see it ...come on someone should at least have a theory....any volunteers?... if not, then let it go..it is call mass hysteria...

and I heard of "Short Term Memory Loss" but didn't my posts all started off saying..looking for this or that in CHICAGO, it will say based in CHICAGO, everything was about CHICAGO..and if I was on Mars I would be looking for Martians..wouldn't it make sense to get people or aliens in your area first?....

but some in this thread was pondering why is it just in that area, and then it turned into a discussion as to involve the Independent filmmaking community...well at least at first

but don't you really see what's happenning, everything is being discuss but the topic,
is this fear of actually having to do something, to face reality..you know it's no venue for these movies, and that this is in need of discussion, and you probably won't find it being discuss seriously anyplace else but when someone brings it up the "kill the messenger" syndrome sets in.

my post didn't start off attacking, but it was some that attacked me and I attacked back....sorry I defended myself....I do that every now and then for some odd reason

this is getting spooky or would make a good b-movie, almost like the Stepford Wives...I couldn't be the only one that thinks a new venue is needed...surely someone else has some ideas

clive
08-16-2005, 03:00 PM
So anyone seen any good films about fish recentlly?

SirLaosson
08-16-2005, 03:11 PM
Yeah Finding Nemo

funches
08-16-2005, 03:14 PM
yes...it was called Mr. Limpet....with Don Knotts

Zensteve
08-16-2005, 03:15 PM
Burton's "Big Fish" :cool:

Spatula
08-16-2005, 03:17 PM
Shark Attack starring Casper Van Dien... er.. oh wait.. good movies?

funches
08-16-2005, 03:19 PM
Shark Attack 2

rrk1962
08-16-2005, 03:21 PM
Jaws, by some kid named Spielberger or something.

And Splash, sort of.

funches
08-16-2005, 03:22 PM
shark attack 3 clive....oops I mean megadon

SirLaosson
08-16-2005, 03:23 PM
Shark Tales... back to the thread I can get an 30mins - 1 hour spot on FOX 13 or UPN 30 in Memphis around 12 - 2 o'clock at night

funches
08-16-2005, 03:47 PM
but Clive don't you feel that your hostility may cause some people not to share their thoughts and ideas in the fear that you may attack them?

Funches...this won't be a problem for Clive. He is a well respected contributing member to this forum.

...er..ok...right?

Thespis007
08-16-2005, 04:16 PM
(wiping the blood splatter from his eyes after reading this forum)

Being just a humble actor with indie feature aspirations, let me just say:

1) - Wanda, best fish movie ever

2) - A website featuring indie films is a GREAT idea, oh wait... indietalk.com has already done that! Go fig. Just a reminder to re-visit the MAIN indietalk page and look at all those featured films! So the Shot Renegade example is already in play. Show of hands; how many people have actually checked out the trailers on the main page?

Spatula
08-16-2005, 04:49 PM
How about this:

Anyone who would like to promote Macbeth 3000 (my feature) and the screening on August 28th, feel free to do so on your site.

I have gone so far as to construct a web banner image for people to use:

http://www.superguncinema.com/images/Macwebbanner%20copy.jpg

Feel free to link it to www.superguncinema.com

Thanks! I really would appreciate it!

More details on the site.

Zensteve
08-16-2005, 04:55 PM
Spatula... you ought to know better than to be clear, concise, to-the-point and articulate in any single post. That's the kind of things that gets results... and we can't have that now, can we. http://www.stevenrichards.com/images/smiley_pac.gif

I'll add that to my site when I get home tonight.

_______

'sup, good Spis007 :)

I've seen every film on the main page, and about 80% of the films that rapidly get added to the Screening Room.

Lots of good stuff there. :cool:

Thespis007
08-16-2005, 04:56 PM
Great trailer Spatula!

Thx Zensteve, and look... Here we are implementing the new era of indie!

:lol:

learnfilmonline
08-16-2005, 05:22 PM
I like how you guys are changing the subject. But I feel like my little venue is being ignored don't forget about VegasIndiesTv you know exposure for the filmmaker, and I have alot connections in vegas to get you interviews on the local stations. I know it's been slow go but remember its just me doing this show alone. And I think all your shorts are awesome so keep them coming. By the way Vegas is blowing up on the Indie scene check it out...

John@Bophe
08-16-2005, 05:50 PM
but Clive don't you feel that your hostility may cause some people not to share their thoughts and ideas in the fear that you may attack them?


Originally Posted by John@Bophe
Funches...this won't be a problem for Clive. He is a well respected contributing member to this forum.


...er..ok...right?

Yes ... I am right.



NOTE to Spatula: I'd be happy to add your banner to my site. I'll take care of it this evening.


NOTE to VegasIndiesTV: I sent you our short (on DVD) several months ago. How's it going? Are you actually on air yet? Do you have a schedule worked out? I would like to know if our movie ever makes it on the air in Vegas (even if it is only at 2:00 am on Halloween). Thanks!

SirLaosson
08-16-2005, 05:56 PM
Spatula I'll add it to my site

Spatula
08-16-2005, 06:01 PM
Wow- thanks guys! I didn't think that would actually work! Mucho apppreciato!

(anyone who wants a reciprocate link, send me a PM and I'll adder up)

funches
08-16-2005, 06:27 PM
oh so some of you guys did understand part of the concept...good

learnfilmonline
08-16-2005, 08:03 PM
John, VITV has already been on the air twice, but I had to pay for that out of my pocket, so I'm working with some stations around town to do a barter with the show. And things are looking good. I know it's taking forever, but give it time your movie will hit air. I'm not filling anyone up with hot air because this is for all the filmmakers not only me. Please check on my site and join the forum to get updates. Thanks.

http://www.vegasindies.com

John@Bophe
08-16-2005, 08:19 PM
Spatula, your MacBeth 3000 banner is now on my "Links" page.

SirLaosson
08-16-2005, 08:49 PM
Spatula, your now on my site too... Revelationthemovie.tk

Spatula
08-16-2005, 11:11 PM
Thanks guys! I appreciate it!

donniker137
08-17-2005, 04:59 AM
There are almost 4000 people on this site, you can change the world with less...know what I mean Vern?

bird
08-17-2005, 07:19 AM
oh so some of you guys did understand part of the concept...good

I've also invented something which I think has an infinite number of practical applications. It's round like a ball, but flat, sort of like a slice of a cylinder...I call it, 'The Whe-el'. Like a chicken in every American pot, I envision a sea of 'L-A-z-y S-u-s-a-n-s' on every American table, starting with Chicago tables, well, my table anyway. It would display entrees, desserts, beverages, and condiments all on a mobile, easily accessible "Whe-el" in the middle of a "Squ-are" table (which I shall invent tommorrow). Now, all I need to do is determine the ideal surface area of said "Whe-el" as to better display dressings, foodstuffs, cakes, and ah,.....EUREKA! PI-IIIIIIII.

Banner exchange (a form of collatoral advertisement) is an old concept

funches
08-17-2005, 07:43 AM
And that number plus that of other forums could easy total to 200,000, what if Indietalk.com were the number one site to have your trailer featured, would it evolve into a distributor or become the guild for distributors by becoming the Roger Ebert of Independent movies? This thread is a microcosm of the power that could be generated within the Independent Filmmaking community..you witness the good it could do for Spatula and the evil it could do as this creation, this monster was directed towards me Baron Von Frankenstein or is that Funches-tein?...er..sorry about that ..just keeping it Film ...

Bird..I see you are still flying around...leaving droppings?

bird
08-17-2005, 07:53 AM
Bird..I see you are still flying around...leaving droppings?

Now THERE'S a well articulated response.

funches
08-17-2005, 08:10 AM
just like in school, there were always those few that would disrupt the class looking for attention and keeping others for learning as the teacher had to deal with them, it was funny in grade school, but what about those that payed to go to film school and come here to hear ideas or to share ideas so they could benefit and there are still those...er...you know

Bird..I guess you do add comic relief to the forum...or gas

indietalk
08-17-2005, 08:25 AM
Funches, cut it out.

learnfilmonline
08-17-2005, 10:19 AM
Ha Ha sorry that was funny Funches...

indietalk
08-17-2005, 10:20 AM
Ha Ha sorry that was funny Funches...
I'm glad you find his comments funny. :rolleyes:

Thespis007
08-17-2005, 10:22 AM
I've also invented something which I think has an infinite number of practical applications. It's round like a ball, but flat, sort of like a slice of a cylinder...I call it, 'The Whe-el'. Like a chicken in every American pot, I envision a sea of 'L-A-z-y S-u-s-a-n-s' on every American table, starting with Chicago tables, well, my table anyway. It would display entrees, desserts, beverages, and condiments all on a mobile, easily accessible "Whe-el" in the middle of a "Squ-are" table (which I shall invent tommorrow). Now, all I need to do is determine the ideal surface area of said "Whe-el" as to better display dressings, foodstuffs, cakes, and ah,.....EUREKA!

Very funny :lol:

I'm all for using an old concept to help get ppls work "out there", if it works.

As far as developing a sense of "community" among indie filmakers, it seems to me that indietalk, Spatula, and vegasindiestv are doing the best job (as evidenced by this thread) by supporting each others projects. To flat out demand that all indies lay down their art to support one "Master Project" is beyond counter-productive. It's destructive - look at the resistance funches has gotten (well, attitude factors in as well)

That's my two cents, now I'm broke again dangit! :D

learnfilmonline
08-17-2005, 03:40 PM
Indietalk relax this is not brain surgery. We are just filmmakers trying to be something. Sorry that I have a sense of humor.

indietalk
08-17-2005, 04:49 PM
Indietalk relax...
Relax? I was telling funches to stop the insults so the discussion could continue. Laughing at him after I told him to stop really doesn't help, now does it?

Back to discussion please. Thanks

learnfilmonline
08-17-2005, 07:58 PM
Freedom thats why I'm in america. But I agree back to discussion...

SirLaosson
08-18-2005, 02:49 AM
I have a question How many indie filmmakers are in the world?

spinner
08-21-2005, 01:09 AM
It doesn't

Question

How much of your budget do you have?

...sorry, its taken so long to respond to this. I have a very very small amount, only enough to get started with but I am sending out MANY grant proposals. Just sent one to the National Endowment for the Arts...

...and unfortunately, I think this thread has become counterproductive....

--spinner :cool:

SirLaosson
08-21-2005, 11:40 PM
Yeah I think so too

Thats good spinner... How big of a budget do you want?

spinner
08-22-2005, 01:06 AM
Yeah I think so too

Thats good spinner... How big of a budget do you want?
...well, its ALOT to me, but it can all be justified. I am looking at about $150,000. I can probably find a way to bust it down, but there are things I have to have (accommodations) and there are crew people who have to be looked at and paid and then there is travel. Its seems to be so much and I feel like I am looking for more than I can get, but if you don't ask, you don't get.

...I don't expect AT ALL to get all of it, but I sure could lock in some crew if I did...actually I had crew, and all of a sudden, last week, this comes into question :huh:. Reliable people are so important. So as of now I have crew, but it is shaky crew and that is not good when I am looking to start shooting in a few weeks (sigh)...

--spinner :cool:

learnfilmonline
08-22-2005, 12:52 PM
Good Luck with that Spinner.

directorik
08-22-2005, 10:01 PM
$150,000 in a few weeks. I feel for ya!

I've been working for eight months on a deal raising $250,000 for a show. I can't imagine how difficult it's going to be to get even close to your goal in only a few weeks.

I, too, wish you luck.

spinner
08-23-2005, 12:55 AM
Good Luck with that Spinner.

...oh, c'mon! You think I expect to get ALL THAT? :rolleyes: I will be happy and grateful to get a fraction of that. I don't by any stretch of the imagination think that I can get that much...


$150,000 in a few weeks. I feel for ya!

I've been working for eight months on a deal raising $250,000 for a show. I can't imagine how difficult it's going to be to get even close to your goal in only a few weeks.

I, too, wish you luck.

...I will not be able to make that in a couple of weeks. What I do have is a small amount to get me started IF my subjects are agreeable and allow us to come out. I am trying to keep a good thought, but I'm not :crazy:

...what I do have is a camera, a computer which will have Final Cut Pro on it, I hope to get a tripod soon and a good mic. I have to play things by ear and hope for the best and hope my subjects will find it convenient to join them for a while which is what I've been saying all along. What I need now is luck so I'll take it where I can find it...

--spinner :cool:

SirLaosson
08-23-2005, 10:08 PM
I stop raising money for my projects 2 months ago. I got my teams to work for free on my fillms and games. Spinner just talk to your team. Be that leader thats inside you, and people will work for free just to help you.

spinner
08-24-2005, 01:26 AM
I stop raising money for my projects 2 months ago. I got my teams to work for free on my fillms and games. Spinner just talk to your team. Be that leader thats inside you, and people will work for free just to help you.

...thanks for the vote of confidence, guys. I know alot of photogs however they are all married men. Can't exactly shoot for a long period of time away from home when you're married. They are good friends but I can't ask them to take on a project like this for many reasons, they in turn are my moral support as they know what I am up against, but can't help much right now. (maybe later???)

...so, I am working on some other ideas to pull together a crew quickly (I did have crew, but this process takes a while and for them its too long). Maybe its too late in their lives to take a chance like this, maybe it is for me too, but I am jumping off this cliff. Damn if I'm gonna wallow in regret when I turn 70, not that I am anywhere near 70. :D

As for my subjects, well, they have told me that they want to be involved if I can get this off the ground, so I am asking them to put their money where their mouth is as it were. In the meantime, I am talking to some legal for things like release forms, no form, no shootin'.

...I still refuse to say 'die'...

--spinner :cool:

GREATwarEAGLE
08-24-2005, 03:05 PM
I don't know if this has already been said, but in regards to the great difficulty it is getting a film made and then getting it seen - it's always gonna be difficlut.

There is much more to filmmaking than the creativity that goes into all stages of production.

Politics
Stress
Business sense
People skills
Responsibility

Overcoming the obstacles of both Hollywood and Independent filmmaking are how you prove yourself.

But if you have, in your opinion, a great film, but cant get anyone to see it, then youre not trying hard enough. If it's so great word of mouth will eventually catch.

Fighting for your film never ends. Even established filmmakers still go through bullshit politics to get thier films made and seen.

It never ends.

funches
08-24-2005, 03:35 PM
Things will only change if you change them or it will continue to be the same old same old, this is being complacent as to be willing to let others control your film's destiny, if they block the way into their club then find an alternate way to get in or create your own
This thread is counterproductive? This Thread is a reality check,
The Thread was started to discuss a need to start a venue as to getting Independent movies to the public, it is so much focus on the production and financing of these movies in the forum and no discussion about placing the movie beyond a film festival or straight to DVD,
and again I never said for everyone to drop their projects and work on my project, I said if you are in Chicago and interested on working on a project in Chicago and joining a team as to create a new venue in Chicago,
but the discussion switch to creating a venue that expanded farther then Chicago and how everything could be linked up …plus all this resistance to discuss this topic is the fear of reality..

GREATwarEAGLE
08-24-2005, 04:29 PM
Just for the record, I have no problem with the status quo if independent filmmaking.

I kinda want to call it "survival of the fittest." Its a filter prcoess.

I don't mind it at all. I myself don't see a need for change. In fact, I don't know what would change. There are no rules. A film can get made and seen in as many ways as your imagination allows.

funches
08-24-2005, 08:42 PM
hollywood do work on a system of politics, that's how they keep their friends and associate companies working, your company do this in return for us doing that, to let an independent movie come in having not used any of this system's resources is counterproductive to this system, when someone comes up with a movie or concept totally different that would get you in, but it seems that movies are merely clones of each other with no new imagination, art at this stage has becomes stagnet

Spatula
08-24-2005, 11:15 PM
I kind of agree with the Eagle, there.
We just need to get more creative in the existing industry. I think that echoes what Clive was saying before.

We spent $10,000 on a film. Spent $2000 marketing (making posters, renting a theatre, etc).
We had around 500 people show up for the premiere screening. All good reviews. We made the money back for the initial advertising.
Now I've rented another venue for this Sunday, and I spent $12 photocopying black and white posters at Business Depot, and because we got a good deal on the venue, if 100 people show up, not only do we break even, but we make a bit of profit.
We can use that profit have more screenings, and master copies of the DVD ourselves.

We're operating outside the existing industry, and although at this time the profit is nil, and the workload is high, we can be creative with the money we do get and advertise in different ways.

Hollywood isn't going to get between the public and a movie with cult backing. The trick is to have something good enough to stand alone and backing it with an intriguing ad campaign to get to your audience (market).
If the product gets enough attention on the market, Hollywood swoops in and gobbles it up by paying huge sums of money.
This is where you have the choice to either sell out, take the money and try and make a career out of it, or continue your existence on your own terms. But that's a personal choice.

There's TONS of options; you just have to uncover them. Millions of scenarios...

Zensteve
08-25-2005, 02:48 AM
Just for the record, I have no problem with the status quo if independent filmmaking.

I kinda want to call it "survival of the fittest." Its a filter prcoess.

I don't mind it at all. I myself don't see a need for change. In fact, I don't know what would change. There are no rules. A film can get made and seen in as many ways as your imagination allows.

Though I wish this (and the previous) post had remained unedited, the core is still there.

GREATwarEAGLE and I actually agree on something! http://www.stevenrichards.com/images/smiley_five.gif

funches
08-25-2005, 07:32 AM
again this discussion is not about change, the system works perfectly so why change it, it's about could another venue or network be set up as to get some of the best quality and most entertaining Independent films to a public that otherwise would never see them, there are independent filmakers and others with different resouces that when link together will create this venue instantly,

rrk1962
08-25-2005, 08:00 AM
You can't "instantly" replicate or compete with a well-established bohemeth that has one hundred years of branding and close to 100% market share.

And you shouldn't try.

Here's the analogy. Don't build a new OS and try to topple Microsoft, build software that Microsoft can't make and don't expect to become Microsoft by doing it.

funches
08-25-2005, 10:43 AM
Geez.....ok, let me try to explain this a fourth time or is it the eight time? ..heck I lost count, I'm not trying to overthrow your Hollywood Gods, I'm not talking about competing with as to blaspheme the Hollywood Gods, not even trying to deprogram your way of thinking, and I'm not trying to bring anyone out of the Matrix..it is simply those with the same resources as hollywood that may seek an alternative way to use them..again this is a discussion about ideas as how to link those resouces to create another venue for those Independent Filmmakers that enjoy making movies and seek a way to present them to the public but choose not to worship the Hollywood Gods...this discussion can't even get past the topic of what the discussion is about...but it's not about Hollywood, I like Hollywood..Hollywood is our friend ...

spinner
08-25-2005, 11:02 AM
...okay, in the interest of clearing things up. Let's restate the originating thought of the thread because I, for one, am confused, so lets start over.

...funches, what is your suggestion of how to re-think how this industry does things? Don't send me to another site. The point you were making was what? Your suggestion of how to do things, hypothetically, was what? Maybe this way, we can all understand more clearly what it is you were trying to say, and avoid all the snipping, and there was some snipping around this thread which is why I said it was becoming counterproductive. There is no resistance to discussion or else the thread would be dead, so let's re-start and re-state this thread from here.

...I'm of average intelligence, I can figure stuff out, sometimes I'm linear, but I ain't no dummy :D

...Philosophy is fine, but philosophy with no game plan is bar conversation fueled by beer; be clear, funches, I want to know what we were supposed to deduce from the thread originally.....

--spinner :cool:

directorik
08-25-2005, 11:10 AM
EDIT:
I had a professional change of heart and decided to stay out of this.

spinner
08-25-2005, 11:11 AM
again this discussion is not about change, the system works perfectly so why change it, it's about could another venue or network be set up as to get some of the best quality and most entertaining Independent films to a public that otherwise would never see them, there are independent filmakers and others with different resouces that when link together will create this venue instantly,


...oops, sorry, funches, posted before I saw this post, but give an answer we can mull over anyway...
I even think I may have an idea on how to do this, I'll post later, gotta go to work you know...

--spinner :cool:

Zensteve
08-25-2005, 11:22 AM
let me try to explain this a fourth time or is it the eight time?

It's because you make absolutely no sense, good funches.

There have been (so far) over 120 replies to this thread, and apparently noone else understands either... so it's not just me.

You need to work on your communication skills, good sir.

I wish you the best in getting done whatever you are trying to do.

funches
08-25-2005, 11:45 AM
well ZenSteve, there are some that understand and spinner understand and now express that an idea has come to mind, so your point has become mute and now I don't understand why you can't understand. remember for the ninth or twelve time, this is a discussion to express ideas as how to come up with another venue, or can you use the quote button to show where I claim it was anything besides that ...ZenSteve just try expanding your mind or just look up the word (discussion)

Zensteve
08-25-2005, 11:59 AM
well ZenSteve, there are some that understand and spinner understand and now express that an idea has come to mind, so your point has become mute and now I don't understand why you can't understand. remember for the ninth or twelve time, this is a discussion to express ideas as how to come up with another venue, or can you use the quote button to show where I claim it was anything besides that ...ZenSteve just try expanding your mind or just look up the word (discussion)

Should it really have taken Spinner to post #125 to begin (maybe) to understand what you are saying? That is not an indication of clarity on your part at all, good sir.

It does not make my point MOOT (not "mute" ; talk about looking words up :rolleyes: ) at all.

funches
08-25-2005, 12:12 PM
and in the post i said that there are others that understand.....and mute is just the word I meant. sorry you couldn't understand that either...expand your mind..and offer ideas

indietalk
08-25-2005, 12:18 PM
Expand your mind zen, don't you know what a mute point is? :lol:

funches
08-25-2005, 12:30 PM
well I guess we could use a proofreader

GREATwarEAGLE
08-25-2005, 01:29 PM
Funches, you wrote:

"again this discussion is not about change, the system works perfectly so why change it, .."

But before that, you wrote:

"Things will only change if you change them or it will continue to be the same old same old,..."

?

funches
08-25-2005, 02:37 PM
I said why change the current system because it does work but not for Independent filmmakers so it will be the same old same old useless another venue can be created to get these quality movies and the most entertaining movies to the public....is this place full of proofreaders looking for holes in my posts instead of offerring ideas?..for the thirteenth time, it's a discussion of creating another venue.you guys are getting spooky

clive
08-25-2005, 03:01 PM
Can I make a suggestion?

How would it be if everyone who can't see the wisdom of funches plan just voted with our feet and abandoned the thread. He's made it clear that he's not interested in our opinions.

This would mean that he could back to working on his plan with people who are interested in buying into it.

From what I've be able to gather, what he's suggesting is that all the independent filmmakers in Chicago area could work together and pool resources to make and market one film, instead of competing. With greater resources this film would then have a better chance of getting the attention of the mainstream industry. I think he's further suggesting that the marketing would be achieved by setting up a web ring where a larger group of indies (us) would promote it on our websites, in the hope that that would achieve enough buzz to get the film sold.

I maybe wrong about all of this, but by reading between the lines I think this is what funches is proposing.

This isn't the worst plan I've ever heard, but it would only stand a chance of working if the person instigating it had the skills to both communicate and sell the idea to enough filmmakers.

So, as

a) I don't live in Chcago
b) I Can't imagine anyone ever being able to do a sucessful co-production with funches
and
c) I believe the webring idea is not even close to being a realistic marketing strategy

I'm out of this thread.

funches
08-25-2005, 04:09 PM
...er..look Clive, now you are trying to rally your minions to abandon this thread..you as a moderator thinks this is a good idea?.. well maybe there are those that choose to think for themselves

so again Clive I have to point out the fact that you don't read my post clearly...so use your quote button and point out where I suggested starting a web ring..it seems like you are becoming the new master of mis-quotes


and people for the...er..let me look back and see which time this is...ok for the fourteenth time , this is a discussion, ..wait I know what..you guys are jerking my chain...that has to be it , you crazy kids...I knew you guys couldn't be that dense...good one...ok fool the newbie,....ok enough fun so now who have some ideas?

Zensteve
08-25-2005, 04:39 PM
Dear funches,

Your posts in this thread are jumbled, contradictory, combative, trollish and uselessly vague.

You fail to clarify anything you have tried to present; rather mocking those who fail to understand whatever you're trying to get across. Challenging people to quote-this or quote-that, then accuse them of being a petty proof-reader when they do? :rolleyes: Why not explain what you meant in the first place?

I don't believe you are making a serious effort at communication.

funches
08-25-2005, 09:01 PM
..so ZenSteve, I know you meant all those things in a good way?...right?

ok ZenSteve since I cannot get the discussion going one way,
then I shall (create another venue) to get this discussion going

Surely ZenSteve you must have produced an Independent movie? and I going to assume this Independent movie is awesome, nothing like it ever, a real need to see movie,.. so what's the name of your movie and if your movie was not promoted thru the hollywood system, what resources do you plan on using to get it to the the silver screen?

Spatula
08-25-2005, 09:52 PM
:rolleyes:

learnfilmonline
08-25-2005, 10:05 PM
Hey Funches, just explain it all over what you want to do maybe that can help the problem out.

SirLaosson
08-25-2005, 11:33 PM
Wow!! Ten Pages

Zensteve
08-25-2005, 11:34 PM
..so ZenSteve, I know you meant all those things in a good way?...right?

No. I mean it in a helpful way.

I enjoy seeing people succeed. I really do.

I cannot see you succeeding on the path you are taking, though. You are trying to pull together support for some revolutionary new system... it is you who should be bending over backwards to make sure people understand what your goal/vision is.

Clearly there was interest in your plan... the thread would not have gone on this long if noone cared. I do not understand your self-destructive method of tackling the (difficult) task of networking and building some support.

ok ZenSteve since I cannot get the discussion going one way,
then I shall (create another venue) to get this discussion going

Surely ZenSteve you must have produced an Independent movie? and I going to assume this Independent movie is awesome, nothing like it ever, a real need to see movie,.. so what's the name of your movie and if your movie was not promoted thru the hollywood system, what resources do you plan on using to get it to the the silver screen?

Why try poisoning the well, good funches?

Look at my profile. It clearly states what kinds of film I make.

I am not claiming to be you, nor claiming ambitions to be better than you... whatever that may entail. I'm not the one trying to drum up support for a new indie-film industry based on a film-idea I have.

The burden is upon you to:

Be clear
Be concise
Be willing to explain, when needed
Work at establishing good relationships


If you just don't have "people skills" (many people do not)... find/hire someone to represent you that does.

You are killing your project with every poor post you make. It does not have to be that way, funches.

clive
08-26-2005, 01:53 AM
OK. I'm going to have one last shot at explaining this and then I'm out of here.

...er..look Clive, now you are trying to rally your minions to abandon this thread..you as a moderator thinks this is a good idea?.. well maybe there are those that choose to think for themselves

Two posts before mine you were complaining that people were not having the discussion you wanted to have. And I quote

.is this place full of proofreaders looking for holes in my posts instead of offerring ideas?..for the thirteenth time, it's a discussion of creating another venue.you guys are getting spooky

I was merely suggesting that those of us not interested in being positive about the project should leave the discussion so it would stop beng an argument and could continue on with those people you support your ideas. I WAS TRYING TO HELP YOU GET A MORE POSITIVE DISCUSSION AND MOVE YOUR PROJECT FORWARD.

so again Clive I have to point out the fact that you don't read my post clearly...so use your quote button and point out where I suggested starting a web ring..it seems like you are becoming the new master of mis-quotes

If you read my post CLEARLY you'd see that I said "I think this is what funches is suggesting, but I could be wrong." What I was giving you was an opportunity to go say something like

"Actually, I'm not suggesting a web ring, my idea is this (insert idea)" which would have allowed everyone to participate in the discussion. Again, I was trying to give you an opportunity to move the discussion forwards.


.look Clive, now you are trying to rally your minions to abandon this thread..you as a moderator thinks this is a good idea?.

You keep on banging on about me being a moderator as though that gives me special powers, which it doesn't. You are the one who is setting me up as an authority figure. My opinions in this thread are based on my fourteen years as an award winning media professional, in particular my eleven years in advertising and marketing and my nine years as a sucessful award winning independent filmmaker. Me being a moderator is irrelevant.

However, it's nice to have minions. :lol:

And finally

well maybe there are those that choose to think for themselves

People will always think for themselves. I don't have any power over people here. However, what I do know is that some people value some of my opinions, which is something that I've earned over the years by sharing what little knowledge I have with other people here and being supportive of their work.

Spatula
08-26-2005, 02:14 AM
I wouldn't mind being a minion if it's well paid and well catered! :P

funches
08-26-2005, 09:07 AM
As for my people communication skills…its call the slap of reality technique

And reality couldn’t get anymore clearer than the question asked of ZenSteve, in which he started back-peddling and chewing biscuits…why?... because he now know what I’m talking about, it’s no venue that he could have placed his movie in, so therefore he couldn’t answer that question, if I’m wrong about this then answer the question

You guys are trying to make like it’s my project, but it’s everyone’s problem, well at least we now know its ZenSteve’s problem

So let me pose my question of what to discuss another way…how could we get a ZenSteve movie to the silver screen …oh heck let’s make it easier..how to get a ZenSteve Movie to the television screen, what resources could be used or combined to accomplish this?

ZenSteve could be the Independent Filmmaker’s poster child…the favorite son…or for those that are against the idea of creating another venue and choose to worship the Hollywood Gods. then let’s find a way to send a ZenSteve movie to Hollywood so he can open up the flood gates. with the combine effort of the independent community if can simply be done,

This is what I’m trying to start a discussion about....these films are made and then do what with them? anyone have any ideas?…please leave anatomy references out of it

Spatula
08-26-2005, 09:42 AM
As for my people communication skills…its call the slap of reality technique

And reality couldn’t get anymore clearer than the question asked of ZenSteve, in which he started back-peddling and chewing biscuits…why?... because he now know what I’m talking about, it’s no venue that he could have placed his movie in, so therefore he couldn’t answer that question, if I’m wrong about this then answer the question


I think we all just felt the slap of reality. The reality that funches makes no sense.


it’s my project, but it’s everyone’s problem


Exactly.

funches
08-26-2005, 10:27 AM
I make no sense?...I make so perfert sense that someone used my idea for a discussion to create another venue for independent movies that they started their own rip off thread and spatula you didn't complain that it didn't make sense when you used the thread and the concept to promote your movie..but now you are suffering from short term memory loss...maybe your next movie should be name (HYPOCRITE 3000) the main purpose is to get the discussion started..if it takes someone to make a rip off thread then so be it..either way I have suceeded...so for those that can't grasp the concept of what the discussion is about...just ask spinner

bird
08-26-2005, 10:57 AM
Funches...you did not invent the idea of reciprocal advertisement, you did not invent the idea of 'underdogs' collaborating to further a cause (that methodology has been applied across all mediums and schools of thought), and I didn't invent the wheel.

Okay, lay it out for us...say I had some money to invest in 'your' idea, convince me you've got a project (other than a collection of fables), a business plan (other than 'it will ensure my place in the industry' and 'provide hundreds of jobs' ), and collaborators (other than "I'm looking for the best'). I'm all ears.

Spatula
08-26-2005, 11:15 AM
I like that. Hypocrite 3000. Very clever funches.

Seeing as I still have no idea what you're saying....

...I make so perfert sense...

...I will go ask Spinner.

learnfilmonline
08-26-2005, 11:22 AM
All i know is dam this topic is hot.

funches
08-26-2005, 11:29 AM
hey Bird, how you doing?...I know I didn't invent those things..but the other thread itself explained that it was a rip off of this thread..so now are you going to pyscho- babble to them about it?...probably not

and I see that you are still steaming about the earlier posts...er..all that has been explained so can you at least move up to page 8 on this thread

but Bird surely you have made an Independent movie..how did you promote your movie? I'm interested in hearing some of the ways and resources that you use or intend to use to get your movie to the public...er..ZenSteve won't tell anyone how he intend to...will you?

this information will be usefull in putting some type of system together to help create a venue

bird
08-26-2005, 11:36 AM
I believe the contentiousness of, we, posters is hotter than the subject matter. There is nothing new about his proposal (Bauhaus, anyone?) What would , truly, be new and revolutionary is for such a mass group to, successfully, put such a concept in motion. Bottom line, there has to be something tangible ( and of value) to exchange for those masses of people to commit to this idea. What is it? A 'promise' of a radical new venue isn't good enough to motivate the masses, especially when there is absolutely no proposal for the project genesis (if we are to believe that Funches didn't really mean his 'Chamber' project).

Zensteve
08-26-2005, 11:38 AM
ZenSteve won't tell anyone how he intend to

It's because I have no intention of, nor desire to. :rolleyes:

how could we get a ZenSteve movie to the silver screen …oh heck let’s make it easier..how to get a ZenSteve Movie to the television screen, what resources could be used or combined to accomplish this?

ZenSteve could be the Independent Filmmaker’s poster child…the favorite son…or for those that are against the idea of creating another venue and choose to worship the Hollywood Gods. then let’s find a way to send a ZenSteve movie to Hollywood so he can open up the flood gates.

The only people who should have an unhealthy gravitation towards me should be attractive, single women. http://www.stevenrichards.com/images/smiley_creepy.gif

funches
08-26-2005, 11:42 AM
is nor desire to....slang for can't?

bird
08-26-2005, 11:50 AM
but Bird surely you have made an Independent movie..how did you promote your movie? I'm interested in hearing some of the ways and resources that you use or intend to use to get your movie to the public...

Oh, I'll be happy to oblige with a response, and not because I'm trying to appease you, but because i am somewhat the braggard, and well, I'm into self-gratification. First, if you'd bother to actually peruse OTHER threads you may discover people on this board have various projects. You would then discover that i've just completed my first live action script called 'Woman With A Camera'. I am in the midst of a hand-drawn, feature-length cel animation entitled, 'Marilyn (x9) Was My Mother' (45 min drawn, 30 usuable). You'll be happy to know that I submitted it as a work-in-progress and it was good enough to get me some money to continue. IF you had read OTHER PEOPLE's threads, you would also know that I'm a greenhorn with anything digital and c related, but i am in the process of learning HTML so I can write my own code for my future website. I plan to use the unusual circumstance of my project, (fll length hand drawn by a single person) to promote my work, I will continue to enter fine arts grants and fellowships programs as well as festivals, and sell DVD's through my site.

funches
08-26-2005, 11:55 AM
Bird, I see you are somewhat just getting started, sounds good, thanks for the information

Zensteve
08-26-2005, 12:13 PM
Two monks were washing their bowls in the river when they noticed a scorpion that was drowning. One monk immediately scooped it up and set it upon the bank. In the process he was stung. He went back to washing his bowl and again the scorpion fell in. The monk saved the scorpion and was again stung.

The other monk asked him, "Friend, why do you continue to save the scorpion when you know it's nature is to sting?"

"Because," the monk replied, "to save it is my nature."

funches
08-26-2005, 01:20 PM
hey ZenSteve, your movie sounds pretty cool with the monks and stuff... one of the monks reminds me of Caine on the tv-series (Kung-Fu) I guess he was into pain and stuff with the scorpion sting like on the Movie (Hellraiser)

Business_Eskimo
08-26-2005, 02:57 PM
You're.... joking, right? :hmm:

knightly
08-26-2005, 03:20 PM
I think the modified version was in the crying game.

funches
08-26-2005, 03:57 PM
Bulletproof Monk(2).. attack of the ZenSteve

Zensteve
08-26-2005, 05:26 PM
Bulletproof Monk(2).. attack of the ZenSteve

Haaaigh-ya!! http://www.stevenrichards.com/images/smiley_fu.gif

learnfilmonline
08-26-2005, 10:37 PM
You guys crack me up...

Shot Renegade
08-27-2005, 04:02 AM
You guys crack me up...

hey! that's my line!

funches
08-27-2005, 11:45 AM
Hey Shot Renegade
Nice website, I’m looking forward to viewing maybe in pictures some of the projects you have created or produce that would show your skills, I knew by the things you said in your post that you had the fire in you,. but don’t hold a grudge, you knew you needed a kick in the pants to get it started, you don’t have to give me credit just be like our friend Spatula the minion or like the other filmmakers/proofreaders in here that were just sitting on their butts and playing the dumb role that they had no clue of what I was talking about but now by some miracle had a revelation as to what the word discussion means,
I was about to blame this phenomenon of the public school system but now they are at least discussing how a new venue could be created but I don’t think they have the cajones to pull it off, I read some of the ideas and they are falling back into that same abyss to nowhere, still the same old same old ideas, they need to add something new to those ideas that will instantly bring attention to this project, maybe they should look at what vegasindiestv is trying to do, maybe some of the answers lie there….maybe

Insults?..how rude.. I rather refer to them as slaps of reality,…Funches 3:16

SirLaosson
08-29-2005, 11:57 PM
Bird, Thats really good... I'll buy a dvd ;)

learnfilmonline
08-30-2005, 12:09 AM
See Funches I wish they did look and see what im trying to do I would have more films. But thanks for the words. O ya and how do poeple find funding, I would think this is something worth funding, and even poeple that are interested won't cut me a check. What Am I doing wrong?

funches
08-30-2005, 09:55 AM
Hey vegasindiestv
Right now people are submitting to you their films like they are doing you a favor, you have to switch that around, you may have to present your tv program in another way in another light. but I and others could probably give you more information if we knew how your program is setup…for instant, do you play everyone’s film in it's entirety?, even the one’s that suck? ...er.... since the word suck is relative and lies in the eye of the beholder, what if we use the phrase (Blew Chucks) instead, which may more closely define the worst of the worst

learnfilmonline
08-31-2005, 08:41 AM
Haha nah sucks works. Yes you are right funches. Poeple do think they are doing me a favor and really we helping each other they help me to get content on th show I advertise there stuff. As for the show info it's pretty basic they submit there short I air the whole thing. You see there whole film on tv. I also have slots for trailers, and commercials. So basically a film festival on tv but you dont win anything, just get to have millions see your work. So there it is...

Spatula
08-31-2005, 10:11 AM
Keep with it Vegas.
I honestly think the kinds of ideas we're coming up with and following through with are the ideas that will pave the way for the next indie film boom.
With technology becoming better and better (and cheaper), the studios will realize you don't have to spend 14million on a movie, when you can do it for $100,000 and creativity.

I think within 5-10 years the "alternate market" will make a big rise. If anyone here ISN'T excited to be involved in independent film at this very exciting time, you need prozac.

I mean, hell, if DAWSON could make it, anyone can. :p

funches
08-31-2005, 02:15 PM
Hey vegasindiestv

what's the name of your program?

Do you have a website and at certain intervals does your program display your website address?

If you do have a website is it set up to help sells these movies and/or push your talents and endeavors

And Spatula you are right, it shouldn't take that much to make a movie but that is the differents of Hollywood and Independent Films ..hollywood is about big money, fame, gitchs, glamor, over spending, the rich and famous...Independent films are like the poor part of town and more like art..and call for Brains to get things done

and there is a way that technology could work against Independent filmmakers...the Internet will eventually move to the television screen..webpages will be replaced with video, this may be the fate of most filmmakers making video for these sites, and think of the number of sites there would be.. millions..rendering most of then useless with the same problem as how to get people to the site..

even in the movies now actors are slowly being replaced by computer generated characters, computer generated characterization is in it's infancy but soon any 5 year old will be able to sit at the computer and produce a movie using this technology...

so if independent are going to do anything it better be now while the field of play between hollywood and independents are now even, and because of the billions of dollars involved hollywood will find a way to use this technology to blow independents out of the water ..maybe even converting to hollogram or some other great technological weirdness

learnfilmonline
08-31-2005, 10:51 PM
Funches you don't even know what I have done, i've been doing this for 2 years now. I've hit up almost every other indy site to advertise. Here's my site. http://www.vegasindies.com the show name is VegasIndiesTV. I know it;s going to hit eventually just takes time. I just get a little discouraged. Sorry i didn't have my site up i forgot that once Indietalk went to Paid membership they take all that off.



GO here http://www.vegasindies.com

funches
09-01-2005, 07:56 AM
hey vegasindiestv
I checked out your site, if seems you are making all the right moves, your site is really the next step in the evolution of the internet

reeceracer
09-03-2005, 03:31 PM
There's some good ideas on here. Have any of you done research on any other industries that have challenged the "mainstream" and succeeded? The one I have researched and am familiar with is the massive Christian market. The Christian music industry now competes alongside the mainstream in revenue and public exposure with many artists having massive crossover success(superchick, switchfoot, stacy orrico, ect).

That industry exploded, I think partially because they catored to a huge niche market and consumer group that the "mainstream" had ignored. After the success of "The Passion" which had churches taking busloads to the theatre's the major studios are trying to capitalize on that niche market and not lose out. That is just one niche market, but who will capture these large niche markets? I think that if a new indie industry is to thrive they have to capture some of these niche markets...

Without major studio backing it does depend on sales and who will buy. That's why Christian music exploded...That's a huge demographic that will buy alternative products. It was a void and demand that was filled. Their is currently a void in Christian film. That's just one example.

So what other consumer voids and demands are not being met and how could indies use that to become more of a force? Are their enough mainstream consumers unhappy enough to go looking for alternitives? Just some thoughts...how could the large number of indie filmmakers form an industry that was competitive?

learnfilmonline
09-04-2005, 04:34 AM
Thanks Funches... Im trying bro....

funches
09-07-2005, 05:11 PM
hey reeceracer
You know the money-o-phobia that permeates this site so Market Research among other things would be nice but to find the people that would dedicate themselves to such a task without getting paid and actually doing it right and in a timely manner is possible but not probable also why try to compete with Hollywood?

Also it will take a tactic that would bring instant attention to Independent movies as to show their power as potential money makers which in turn would draw investors and others

It seems Independent Filmmakers want the same thing they want in Hollywood ..fame and fortune, so by including these factors could be a possible way of drawing the majority of independent filmmakers to the cause of getting involved.

It appears that independent movies has no rating system, so how do you know exactly what you’re about to view or buy?..this is a major problem.. one of concepts that may help remedy this problem may lie in what vegasindiestv is doing

what is the best independent movie that been made by a filmmaker on this IndiesTalk site? And which film is the best short that should become a movie that was produced by a filmmaker on this site? Now imagine the word spreading and all Independent filmmakers coming to this site believing their movie is the best ..these questions are the concepts to starting a new Independent movie industry…

and again to trying to compete with Hollywood just use the same glitch and glamour they used, rent out a large monstrous hall, ride up in Limos and hold the Independent movie awards, best film, actor/actresses, special effects, story etc. awards ceremonies …..invitations only…er..dress Black tie? …

televise it on tv or live over the internet …it is a simply way to raise the funds to do this….any ideas?

learnfilmonline
09-07-2005, 10:45 PM
Why don't everyone just donate money to VegasIndiestv and help me get this show off the ground to help showcase all your movies.

funches
09-17-2005, 03:24 PM
…er..vegasindiestv, there are ways to get money for your project…Step one: ask for money….Step 2: find and then brown-nose investors..…Step 3: produce a project that would make investors or donators brown-nose you…Step 4:..generate money by creating a machine that feeds itself…Step 5…create a project so bizarre that if would generate attention and generate money…Step 6..recuit those with the needed skills to create and finance the project themselves because they know it is in their best interest to do so

to best illustrate these concepts I will used steps three thru six to create The Ailanthus Chamber project, I was hoping that the filmmakers on this site with all their supposedly brain power could get things started but that hijacker’s thread is not going anywhere, all talk and no action and the same old same old concepts so now I guess it’s up me, now you can better understand why I was just going to concentrate the project to Chicago …. so I decided to keep on this forum a journal of what I’m going to do and the reasons for these choices, well at least until I get bored or don’t have the time to do it anymore and let say by some unconceivable reason I don’t pull this project off …at least I tried

procedure one…find ten Chicago bands and ten Chicago nightclubs…so far eleven bands has contacted me within a week of posting on the internet but the best place to find them is to leave literature about the project at the places they congregate, at nightclubs that host live music…the trick is to find ten serious bands that can understand the concept

to understand what ten bands have to do with the project, I created a website for this purpose, go to it and click on The Ailanthus Chamber http://www.geocities.com/funchesfilms/index.html

but why ten bands and ten nightclubs?…because it’s a way to generate money and advertisement without brown-nosing investors… there are thousands of bands in Chicago, all merely clones of themselves, most will fade away, most can’t even give away their CDs let along sell them, but it will be those that know they need to do something different to bring attention to themselves and the nightclubs just want the business, this would also create the backbone to a music circuit in Chicago but you can get the picture the type of money that could be generated, the type of advertisement it would generate…it would create a self-sustaining machine that’s capable of feeding itself…and I shall call this creation the Funchestein Monster or is that Farkensteen?...it’s alive..alive...hey, just keeping it film …

learnfilmonline
09-18-2005, 05:03 PM
No I know Funches I was just messing around, i actually do have some poeple interested, just waiting on them. But good luck with all your thing.

directorlca
09-19-2005, 02:57 AM
This whole idea of creating a new independent movie industry is pretty cool, but I think it might need to embrace the facts of today: Digital cameras means there's a LOT more access to equipment, making a DVD hasn't been easier, and there's a lot of people out there that want to create. a lot!

One of my business professors was telling us how, in the future, large corporations are going to eventually collapse due to the ability for local businesses to be so specific to their community's needs. Maybe, maybe not. But I wouldnt' be suprised if this happened with filmmaking as well, where it became localized; a community culture, where "LA films" would be a specific style, and "Chicago" or "New York Films" would cater specifically to the area, the people, and the culture. I mean, there's enough people out there to do it... just some thoughts