fame
- Thread starter Gavin
- Start date
It is possible to be quite famous/succesful, and yet remain personally miserable.
You do not acheive satisfaction with yourself, based on others' perceived impressions of you. Your own intrinsic worth and self-esteem should not be reliant on how high random others may have placed you on some ego-pedestal.
Go talk to your school counselor.
You do not acheive satisfaction with yourself, based on others' perceived impressions of you. Your own intrinsic worth and self-esteem should not be reliant on how high random others may have placed you on some ego-pedestal.
Go talk to your school counselor.
Zensteve said:Go talk to your school counselor.
Would you honestly take advice from the one person who couldn't find a real job so he became a school counselor?? 
I think more opportunities will come to someone who's relatively famous than to someone who isn't, especially in independent films. The key to success in this industry is to produce quality work and for that work to be seen. Whether your goal is financial security, gaining recognition or just entertaining an audience, a little fame goes a long way.
Success is a tricky thing. For one man success is making $$$$. For another it's making love. For another success equals fame.
I think the questions you have to ask yourself Gavin (other than, "Do I feel lucky?") is, "Do I want fame, or success? And are they exclusive?"
Personally, I used to crave fame, but as I get older and wiser (and more obese) I realize that fame is not what I truly want.
Poke
I think the questions you have to ask yourself Gavin (other than, "Do I feel lucky?") is, "Do I want fame, or success? And are they exclusive?"
Personally, I used to crave fame, but as I get older and wiser (and more obese) I realize that fame is not what I truly want.
Poke
Gavin said:
for every 1 thousand that love you, 100 don't, 10 want to kill you, and 1 wants to steal your spermatozoa, freeze it, give you a sex change, and then impregnate you with your own juices (after they have unfrozen it, of course, otherwise that would just be wierd).
oh, and Gav, you are seeking a famous life, in order to get an easire life.
the problem there is that your current existence, that is the seeking of fame, is (to you) a means to a seperate end (the easier life).
the only things that can make you geniunely happy are things in themselves, that is things which are not means toward a seperate end, but ends in themselves.
thats why people who work all day on sweeping streets (at least the ones i talk to) are hardly ever happy - because the aim/end of their labour is some leisure time.
try to do something that is not a means to something else, and that will give you geniune happiness
ponderosa away
If you can be happy where you are, despite your position, then a better life will follow. Don't lose ambition, but taper it so that it fuels you without consuming you.
I sometimes feel like that... I'm in debt and it seems the more I work to pay off the debt, the more the debt grows, and all I REALLY want is an XL2 and equipment to start making some flicks. But then I think... well, I'm living in a really nice part of downtown Toronto with my girlfriend, I have all my limbs, and even though the cupboards are filled with Kraft Dinner, I LIKE Kraft dinner.
(for those of you living in countries without Kraft Dinner, it is a cheesy pasta substitute consisting of flavorless macaroni covered in powdered cheese. Sounds rank, but trust me, once you've had it, you will know God.)
Fame is something that happens. People need leaders, and leaders need to be known by the people. The fact is, no matter what you do, if you do it well (or REALLY badly), you will eventually have stories told about you. Aristotle gets a lot of mention still these days because for his time, he was really good at what he did (thinking). Hitler was a pretty darn evil dude, but we still hear about him because he was a pretty well known guy back in the day. And then there's J.dot. Who hasn't heard about Jesus? He's all over the place, man... in our kitchens, in our convience stores, in our hotel nightstands... that's pretty famous. The thing is, lately, fame is something that we have jumped on. With mass media, and global communications, EVERYONE wants to be remembered for all of eternity. The problem is, we get a lot of people getting famous, over-saturating the market. And THIS leads to the concept that to be famous is an ultimate goal, and THIS leads to MORE people becoming famous, and THIS makes people get bumped down the list (AKA Emilio Esteves). So really, we're at a point where anone can get famous, but not "Jesus Famous", so really, fame isn't going to solve your problems, because now you get "15mins" and you're done. And when you're done you'll be even worse, because people might still know you, but they won't REALLY know you, and you won't have anything but your own memories.
So getting "famous" these days isn't really an honor, it's just a temporary job.
Now, with ALL that in mind... does this change your conception of fame? I know the game now... You need some level of fame to get ahead with your career, but to be "famous" is to be there and back again without a clue. The point is to do something that will be accredited and loved enough to make you a leader, not having your face on "X" magazine so you can get into a bar without ID. It's about hard work and determination, and gaining an audience.
Oh man... I just typed a lot. I think I'm tired. I better stop. Lemme summarize for the skimmers.
Having Fame = Recieving acknowledgement for something you have done (good or bad)
"Being Famous" = Flavour of the weak.
I honestly don't know what I'm talking about....grr... stupid ADD...
My take on it is this. The whole dream of fame, wealth, and greatness is a great driving force but a dangerous force. The more we see happiness in our minds and what it is "supposed" to be the more we're going to be let down no matter what happens. But if you can keep those desires in the back of your mind and just be the absolute best you can be then happiness will follow because at the end of the day you will have produced something that made you happy.
I know a lot of folks see fame and wealth as being equivelant to freedom. But at this level the work being put into even the most simple project is astronomical; it's not going to get any better for the succesful. You may be doing something you love but there is still stress, there are still problems, and there is still worry. Happiness is internal. An inherently happy person is going to be content with what he's given, do the best job he can, and should be rewarded for doing that. An inherently unhappy person is going to be malcontent with what he's earned, still do the best job he can, be rewarded but it's still not going to be enough.
I'm hoping this is making sense as it is really, really late. But, the point is, if a person is in this "business" just for the fame and fortune and recognition then it's for the wrong reason. Personally I'm in this because it's the only thing I've ever wanted to do and would be happy just to be able to make a little more per month than what's going out per month as long as I can do this for the rest of my life. That's what will make me happy, that's what will make me succeed; not great wealth or fame (although they couln't hurt). Wealth and fame is a fringe benefit to this business. The best work comes from a place where those exterior motivations do not exist.
I may be wrong, that's just how I see it at 0' dark thirty.
I know a lot of folks see fame and wealth as being equivelant to freedom. But at this level the work being put into even the most simple project is astronomical; it's not going to get any better for the succesful. You may be doing something you love but there is still stress, there are still problems, and there is still worry. Happiness is internal. An inherently happy person is going to be content with what he's given, do the best job he can, and should be rewarded for doing that. An inherently unhappy person is going to be malcontent with what he's earned, still do the best job he can, be rewarded but it's still not going to be enough.
I'm hoping this is making sense as it is really, really late. But, the point is, if a person is in this "business" just for the fame and fortune and recognition then it's for the wrong reason. Personally I'm in this because it's the only thing I've ever wanted to do and would be happy just to be able to make a little more per month than what's going out per month as long as I can do this for the rest of my life. That's what will make me happy, that's what will make me succeed; not great wealth or fame (although they couln't hurt). Wealth and fame is a fringe benefit to this business. The best work comes from a place where those exterior motivations do not exist.
I may be wrong, that's just how I see it at 0' dark thirty.
smartarseMr.Blonde said:
Haha..
I couldn't really care less if I got famous or not.. I make films because it's what I love to do. It's how I'll spend my life as long as I still have a passion for it.
If you're not happy with it..maybe it's not how you want to spend your life anyway.. no advice is going to help you if you're in this for the wrong reasons. So if you're in doubt.. think about the reasons you make films.. & if all you can think of is the glory.. get out of the industry.
Sorry to sound harsh.. but I know too many kids who whine about getting famous.
I couldn't really care less if I got famous or not.. I make films because it's what I love to do. It's how I'll spend my life as long as I still have a passion for it.
If you're not happy with it..maybe it's not how you want to spend your life anyway.. no advice is going to help you if you're in this for the wrong reasons. So if you're in doubt.. think about the reasons you make films.. & if all you can think of is the glory.. get out of the industry.
Sorry to sound harsh.. but I know too many kids who whine about getting famous.
When I used to teach actors the first class I had with them I would ask them:
"Do you want to be an actor or do you just think that acting is a way to get famous?"
With very few exceptions the answer was the second, most of them didn't really want to be an actor, they wanted fame. The same is true in film making.
The truth is that if a person's is motivated by a desire for fame, they become capable of anything in order to achieve it, they loose all sense of value of themselves and other people. Other people will exploit that and they will exploit other people. The desire for fame is many things, but ultimately a destructive force.
The other side is that people have no real idea about what fame means. When I was in Santa Barbara last year I went into a Mexican restaurant for a meal and when I was seated I realised that I was about two foot away from Brude Willis and his family. I looked at him, a bit shocked I guess and in his eyes I could see a nervousness. I thought a lot about this and realised that fame means never being able to walk into Starbucks and order a coffee without people getting weirded out by it, it means always being public property, it means giving up much more than you gain (In my opinion)
To quote the Fun Lovin Criminals "I'd rather have money than fame"
I think this is why I love directing, I'm a massive fan of Luc Besson and I could be sat next to him on a plane and never know who I was sitting next to. Appreciation of your work and a fulfilling creative life is better than fame.
This is the reason I stopped doing stand-up comedy. I had the opportunity to become famous doing that and then build my film making career on that fame, but I'd rather have the freedom of anonymity.
"Do you want to be an actor or do you just think that acting is a way to get famous?"
With very few exceptions the answer was the second, most of them didn't really want to be an actor, they wanted fame. The same is true in film making.
The truth is that if a person's is motivated by a desire for fame, they become capable of anything in order to achieve it, they loose all sense of value of themselves and other people. Other people will exploit that and they will exploit other people. The desire for fame is many things, but ultimately a destructive force.
The other side is that people have no real idea about what fame means. When I was in Santa Barbara last year I went into a Mexican restaurant for a meal and when I was seated I realised that I was about two foot away from Brude Willis and his family. I looked at him, a bit shocked I guess and in his eyes I could see a nervousness. I thought a lot about this and realised that fame means never being able to walk into Starbucks and order a coffee without people getting weirded out by it, it means always being public property, it means giving up much more than you gain (In my opinion)
To quote the Fun Lovin Criminals "I'd rather have money than fame"
I think this is why I love directing, I'm a massive fan of Luc Besson and I could be sat next to him on a plane and never know who I was sitting next to. Appreciation of your work and a fulfilling creative life is better than fame.
This is the reason I stopped doing stand-up comedy. I had the opportunity to become famous doing that and then build my film making career on that fame, but I'd rather have the freedom of anonymity.
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clive said:
Jesus, you kept that one quiet!! i have to admit that is a fear of mine. me and my friends do comedy, we have proven quite popular in parts of the UK, planning to become a professional writing group in 2007 - performing our own stuff on stage (most likely - thats what we do know anyway).
but i really do fear in a way that fame may come, and i know that i won't like that. i completely corroborate with Clive that fame can indeed come at a price. i have already told the others that i will not be turning up to award shows (yes, we are very arrogant and naive). ideally i would move from the comedy into serious writing, then working for communities - but i must admit i am afraid that early success will come at a price, and my life we be decided for me, rather than by me.
fame/freedom. freedom/fame.
ponderosa
respect and love come from many places, and i would not say that fame is one of them.
who is famous - Hitler -
respected/loved - no
who is famous - Abee Titmuss (same as Jordan)
respected/loved - surely not!
who is famous - Jordan (a large breasted female in the Uk, for those elsewhere)
respected/loved - perhaps only by Peter Andre (her boyfriend) and her daughter(s)
- and do you really think thats because Jordan is famous?!
my point - its what you do that makes you loved and respected, they are certainly not by-products of fame Gavin.
the most important forms of respect and love, at least in the prevailing order of things, are self-respect and self-love
by social defintion fame is dictated by the judgements of OTHERS on you - thus they cannot be forms of SELF love or respect, and is a VERY sorry substitute for that elusive self-appreciation which is what you should truly aim for, and not your breats on page 3 of The Sun or ethnic cleansing.
ponderosa
who is famous - Hitler -
respected/loved - no
who is famous - Abee Titmuss (same as Jordan)
respected/loved - surely not!
who is famous - Jordan (a large breasted female in the Uk, for those elsewhere)
respected/loved - perhaps only by Peter Andre (her boyfriend) and her daughter(s)
- and do you really think thats because Jordan is famous?!
my point - its what you do that makes you loved and respected, they are certainly not by-products of fame Gavin.
the most important forms of respect and love, at least in the prevailing order of things, are self-respect and self-love
by social defintion fame is dictated by the judgements of OTHERS on you - thus they cannot be forms of SELF love or respect, and is a VERY sorry substitute for that elusive self-appreciation which is what you should truly aim for, and not your breats on page 3 of The Sun or ethnic cleansing.
ponderosa
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In the end, isn't really a question of self-fulfillment?
Do what you love, love what you do. Everything else is inconsequential.
This isn't just an aphorism. After spending 25+ years in the high tech industry, I've never been happier than I am at this point in my life because I'm doing what I've always wanted to do.
There no fame - barely any notoriety at all. There's little or no money involved (income... there are a lot of expenses.) But I wouldn't choose to be doing anything else.
Before the 5th (and probably fatal) heart attack comes along, I want to be able to look back and say that I had a blast while I was here. Fame and money are transitory - fleeting, one might say, but the sef-satisfaction of what you've accomplished, I think that's something lasting.
Do what you love, love what you do. Everything else is inconsequential.
This isn't just an aphorism. After spending 25+ years in the high tech industry, I've never been happier than I am at this point in my life because I'm doing what I've always wanted to do.
There no fame - barely any notoriety at all. There's little or no money involved (income... there are a lot of expenses.) But I wouldn't choose to be doing anything else.
Before the 5th (and probably fatal) heart attack comes along, I want to be able to look back and say that I had a blast while I was here. Fame and money are transitory - fleeting, one might say, but the sef-satisfaction of what you've accomplished, I think that's something lasting.
abso-bloody-lutely Paul, thankyou for throwing some of your life experience into this discourse!!!
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ditto to Clive
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ditto to Clive
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Gavin said:
Love and respect are different.
Fame is just a name for a game,
That they play to be sane,
When they're looking for gain,
But it's a search all in vain,
Because it only brings pain,
When they don't know your name,
Anymore.
That's a little poem I wrote just now.
You don't go looking for fame, it finds you if it wants. If you go looking for it, you will only find an empty stage. I would suggest loving and respecting yourself, and after that, you will no longer need fame.
The only fame I need is from the people I know. You are seeking an "Image", but that's not YOU, that's just a picture of what you see as ideal. Accept the fact that you are not perfect, and your imperfections make you unique, special and different. Throw away the "image" and take yourself for who YOU are. Then you will be happy, then you will be sane. Then THEY will want to make you famous because THEY will want what you have... and you will hate THEM for it, and you will realize how vain fame is. And you will no longer want fame, because it is something for the hollow minds that feed on the images and ideals of the ones they want to be.
Do you want 12-year-old girls posting you on thier walls? Or do you want your picture in a frame on a loved one's bedside table?
If you answer the latter, audition for American Idol, ask Nike or Adidas for sponsorship, and call Satan to Earth to sell your soul while you are at it... It's all it will get you, because in the end when the 12-year-olds grow up and throw out your image, and the Idols burn, and the sponsors leave and Satan finds someone else to eat away at, you will be left with less than you started with. You will be left with a gaping hole that can never be filled, and then you will be one of THEM.... and you will feed, but you will never eat.
If you answered the latter, I'm sorry if that last paragraph was dark and scary.
Also, if you answered "unsure", I would suggest you go out to the middle of a field with a shovel, start digging, and don't stop until you figure out what you want. Because it's important to know.
BAH!
-Logan-