Directors and their composer: A particularly unique relationship

soundtraktechnoid

soundtraktechnoid

Just a thread for directors to post past experiences with composers they have worked with (no names please), things that you loved, liked, or absolutely hated. The director and composer relationship is one that is absolutely unique in the film world. While producers and directors can but head the entire production and still produce a hit, if a director and composer don't see eye to eye, the film could turn out horrid. Now of course all situations are different and have different outcomes. I want to know how some of these relationships have panned out and what you would have done differently and what you feel the composer should've done differently. This is just a general discussion of course, any composers in this topic feel free to put in some of your experiences as well and both composers and directors alike can use this thread as a learning experience on how to treat this working relationship with care in your projects.

-DT
 
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I agree, as music can set the tone for any scene. Why do you think Tim burton always works with Danny Elfman? Because they get each other. And when you know someone's work and can feel the same emotions, it's much easier to work with and turn into something even more special.
 
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I actually do think the director/composer relationship can be very different from the relationship that a director might have with other "core" crew members.

First of all, a director might often overstep their boundaries, insofar as giving specific direction. Music theory is something that very few people have even the slightest understanding of, but that doesn't stop many directors from giving very specific directions to composers that make absolutely no sense (I'm just relaying what some composers have told me).

And I think Chimp is correct to point out that it's a question of communication (the director's primary job). Every other crew member, including audio post, is someone whose primary artistic focus is in filmmaking. So when we talk to each other, we're both talking the language of movies. Most composers, however, speak the language of music first, so I don't think it's unusual for a director and composer to have a little bit of a communication barrier to break down.

Based on my past experiences (both positive and negative), it's important to me that any composer I work with is one who shares my vision for the movie. I want someone who gets what I'm going for, knows what they need to bring to make it happen, and is excited about doing so.
 
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Cracker Funk said:
Every other crew member, including audio post, is someone whose primary artistic focus is in filmmaking. So when we talk to each other, we're both talking the language of movies. Most composers, however, speak the language of music first, so I don't think it's unusual for a director and composer to have a little bit of a communication barrier to break down.
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You make an important point. At the lo/no budget level most composers are just that, music composers. The vast majority look at film as a potential way of earning money from music composition and so compose music as a music composer rather than as a film maker. This is obviously not as true at the higher budget levels where you can afford to employ a professional film score creator rather than a music composer. There are still always communication barriers but the same communication barriers which exist between director and composer also exist between director and sound designer or director and picture editor, etc.

I don't agree with you about audio post; at the lo/no budget level the vast majority of those who offer audio post are virtually always primarily music composers or student/graduate music recording/mixing engineers whose focus is/has been the music biz and again know little or nothing about film making. But, as most directors at this level know little or nothing about what audio post can and should achieve, they tend not to notice what's missing!

G
 
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AudioPostExpert said:
they tend not to notice what's missing!
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Or maybe they just appreciate any help they can get?!
I absolutely agree that someone who only does music production has a lot to learn about mixing for film, but they will still be in a much, much better position to deal with audio in film than the director themselves, especially if the audio guy is open minded and cares to do a some research before hand too.
Also sure, most music composers at low budget level films don't understand film making but not all of them. It's not fair to make a generalisation like that. And I'm not even speaking for myself here.

And yes, composers do have a unique relationship with directors because they are responsible for an entire facet of the film whereas most people deal with much smaller aspects. On top of that it's important for directors and composers to have an understanding about the goals of each scene and the over all approach to the film to make sure the director's vision is respected. Because music is not just a technique it takes a lot of close collaboration while in most other cases the director can offload responsibilities to someone else.
 
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MetalRenard said:
I absolutely agree that someone who only does music production has a lot to learn about mixing for film, but they will still be in a much, much better position to deal with audio in film than the director themselves, especially if the audio guy is open minded and cares to do a some research before hand too.
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Hmm, that's debatable. However, my point wasn't that a music producer would or wouldn't be better at audio post than a director but that a music producer is going to have no more idea about film making and the language of filmmaking than most music composers who have little/limited experience of scoring for films.

MetalRenard said:
Also sure, most music composers at low budget level films don't understand film making but not all of them. It's not fair to make a generalisation like that.
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I said "vast majority", you said "most", how is it that I'm being unfair generalising but you are not?

MetalRenard said:
And yes, composers do have a unique relationship with directors because they are responsible for an entire facet of the film whereas most people deal with much smaller aspects.
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Most crew deal with smaller aspects but by no means all and some people deal with even bigger "entire facets", so how is the composer unique?

MetalRenard said:
On top of that it's important for directors and composers to have an understanding about the goals of each scene and the over all approach to the film to make sure the director's vision is respected.
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In this respect how is the relationship between director and composer different to the relationship between the director and the DP, the lead actor/s, the picture editor, the sound designer, the screen writer, et al?

MetalRenard said:
Because music is not just a technique it takes a lot of close collaboration while in most other cases the director can offload responsibilities to someone else.
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This is not true. Directors work in much closer collaboration with the picture editor than they do with the composer and the same is true with the collaboration between Director and DP, actors and even Sound Designer. So again, why are you and the OP saying the relationship between director and composer is unique, what is unique?

G
 
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AudioPostExpert said:
I don't agree with you about audio post; at the lo/no budget level the vast majority of those who offer audio post are virtually always primarily music composers or student/graduate music recording/mixing engineers whose focus is/has been the music biz and again know little or nothing about film making. But, as most directors at this level know little or nothing about what audio post can and should achieve, they tend not to notice what's missing!
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Agreed. :)
 
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