ok ill give you all a basic rundown on this format.

its basically a 16mm camera that exposes half the film with super8, when it is finished, you pull the film out, turn it around and expose the other half.

you save the cost of paying for a cartridge wich is a lot. the burn is longer so you get that extra shot (especially if you have 400 ft of it)

anybody that can process 16mm can process ds8 so you save on the huge cost of processing super8 neg. (you pay far more to process 200 ft of super8 compared to 100ft of ds8)

the cameras are proper pressure plate cameras so steadieness id there. many have interchangable lenses and can be easily synced.

if interested in this format please go to yahoogroups and join the double super8 group but if you cant find it email me and ill add you manually

bloopoid@yahoo.com

btw with the quality of stocks out there these days, the film has caught up with the format making it an alternative to HD..according to the people i spoke to from the asc...cheers!

ds8 is an alternative to HD? Or were you saying film in general?

im saying to HD since ds8 is a form of film. its better than super8 and will work out to be the same costs and eventually cheaper than super8. it lends to easier widegate conversion than super8 too. join the forum

I just may do that :)

Is the "resolution" better than super8? I honestly don't see how it could be considered an alternative to HD (image quality wise) unless you mean only that they both end up costing the same. Just curious :) !

I just may do that :)

Is the "resolution" better than super8? I honestly don't see how it could be considered an alternative to HD (image quality wise) unless you mean only that they both end up costing the same. Just curious :) !
ok, the image is better becasue it is far steadier due to the use af a proper pressure plate system. most of the cameras had removable lenses so primes can be used to greatly improve the picture. it lends to easier super duper8 conversion. using 100t vision2 would most likely surpass HD quality, and is also cheaper to do by the minute than to buy or rent HD gear

anybody that can process 16mm can process ds8 so you save on the huge cost of processing super8 neg. (you pay far more to process 200 ft of super8 compared to 100ft of ds8)


Not true. Double 8 has to be split down the middle, ie: 16mm film made into two 8mm strips. I don't know of any labs that do this anymore. Double 8 is a dinosaur.

PS. Most double 8 cameras suck. None were of the professional grade, unlike super-8.

Not true. Double 8 has to be split down the middle, ie: 16mm film made into two 8mm strips. I don't know of any labs that do this anymore. Double 8 is a dinosaur.

PS. Most double 8 cameras suck. None were of the professional grade, unlike super-8.






you are mistaken in your thinking. double and double super8 are totally different. double 8 is crap. double super8 had great cameras, unless you think bolex, pathe, canon scoopic are crap. slitting the middle is a no brainer. i have devices for such cutting. they sell for 10 bucks. i know somebody selling a professional unit for 100. it would cost 300 to make again..this is all in aussie dollars

It wouldn't work with a regular 16mm camera because the whole frame would be exposed, not half, unless you had the gate changed and the lens repostitioned.

Not true. Double 8 has to be split down the middle, ie: 16mm film made into two 8mm strips. I don't know of any labs that do this anymore. Double 8 is a dinosaur.

PS. Most double 8 cameras suck. None were of the professional grade, unlike super-8.

I wouldn't say DS8 is really any cheaper than regular Super8... From what I've seen, it's basically the same give or take...

I will say that the images I've seen from a DS8 Canon (looks like the Scoopic) and the Bolex H8 DS8 are truly outstanding... No jitter whatsover like you can get with the plastic cartridges...

Double Super8 a dinosaur? LOL. Isn't Super8 just as much of a dinosaur? Only Beaulieu still makes Super8 cameras... Expensive ones at that! REALLY EXPENSIVE! So, most of us would have to opt for a dinosaur Super8 camera in great condition wouldn't we?

By the way, somebody in Europe invented a metal pressure plate that fits onto a Super8 cartridge... I bought one several years ago and it works great... It's expensive, but worth it if you want to shoot Super8 from the cartridge...

The thing I friggin' HATE about DS8 is loading the camera... Even with a great image, I will take the cartridge any day of the week over the DS8.

METAL PRESSURE PLATE FOR SUPER8 CARTRIDGE (http://www.super8.nl/images/rent/aandrukplaat_totaal.jpg)

filmy

It wouldn't work with a regular 16mm camera because the whole frame would be exposed, not half, unless you had the gate changed and the lens repostitioned.


i think i must have not been clear. all of the cameras i listed are available in double super8 off the shelf. they took the 16mm versions at the factory and designed them to be double super8, not double 8 so no you dont have to modify anything

Oh OK, I know what you are talking about now, as in the Scoopic DS8, same as Scoopic, but Double S8.

I thought you were talking about Double 8. With DS8, regular 16mm film wouldn't work, with the size difference in sprocket holes, so how are you getting film? I'm not real familiar with DS8. Thanks for the info!

:)

I wouldn't say DS8 is really any cheaper than regular Super8... From what I've seen, it's basically the same give or take...

I will say that the images I've seen from a DS8 Canon (looks like the Scoopic) and the Bolex H8 DS8 are truly outstanding... No jitter whatsover like you can get with the plastic cartridges...

Double Super8 a dinosaur? LOL. Isn't Super8 just as much of a dinosaur? Only Beaulieu still makes Super8 cameras... Expensive ones at that! REALLY EXPENSIVE! So, most of us would have to opt for a dinosaur Super8 camera in great condition wouldn't we?

By the way, somebody in Europe invented a metal pressure plate that fits onto a Super8 cartridge... I bought one several years ago and it works great... It's expensive, but worth it if you want to shoot Super8 from the cartridge...

The thing I friggin' HATE about DS8 is loading the camera... Even with a great image, I will take the cartridge any day of the week over the DS8.

METAL PRESSURE PLATE FOR SUPER8 CARTRIDGE (http://www.super8.nl/images/rent/aandrukplaat_totaal.jpg)

filmy



ok i know people find loading film a bitch but you get used to it, it becomes instinctual. ive taught total idiots to do it.

as for cheaper, you go see what it costs to process 200 ft worth of super8 film vs the same stock with a 100ft roll of ds8. its a huge diff

Interesting stuff.

I still don't understand the reason for comparing DS8 to HD though... I appreciate the fact that you no longer have jitter but HD certainly doesn't have any jitter and has, I am guessing, a better "resolution" (I know it's not a very good comparison. I suppose I mean more "resolving power"). Shooting film is certainly great. No doubt about that. I just wonder why it can be declared to be a viable alternative to HD...

EDIT: The last sentence was in reference to DS8 not film in general :)

I have a 16mm Bolex that was converted to shoot double super8.

But it's not as easy as buying a roll of 16mm and loading it up.

Since the sprocket holes are smaller standard 16mm film wouldn't work. So you need to run double Super8 film.

Kodak stopped making super8 perforated 16mm film in the early '80's.

I have heard of - though have never seen or used - double8 which is exactly as francis describes. But the exposed and slit film has the larger sprocket holes, making it useless on super8 editors and projectors.

However, transferring to DV would still be fine so I guess I'm just arguing semantics.

The feature I shot on that old Bolex sure looked good. Too bad I was such a terrible director back then...

ok to start with, im not comparing ds8 to hd. the only reason video took over film for the most part was cost and opracticality, mind you for dramatic peices film still dominates.

what im saying is if you want to have that film feel and cant do 16mm then ds8 is an attractive alternative. it will also have the ability to compete and improve over those subjective ways to compare image quality, feel. ds8 is a damn site cheaper to use that HD too.

as for the stock, they made a big batch in 2002. it looks like people think the stock is not available. wel, there are people selling whats left but kodak is willing to make an order of it if i can get 50 cans of it. if already got 25 of them sold and looking for those who want some ds8 film.


so yes, if you want the film, its there

I have a 16mm Bolex that was converted to shoot double super8.

But it's not as easy as buying a roll of 16mm and loading it up.

Since the sprocket holes are smaller standard 16mm film wouldn't work. So you need to run double Super8 film.

Kodak stopped making super8 perforated 16mm film in the early '80's.

I have heard of - though have never seen or used - double8 which is exactly as francis describes. But the exposed and slit film has the larger sprocket holes, making it useless on super8 editors and projectors.

However, transferring to DV would still be fine so I guess I'm just arguing semantics.

The feature I shot on that old Bolex sure looked good. Too bad I was such a terrible director back then...


id love to look at the feature just to check it out. if you dont want your camera i think i know somebody who wants one quick if i can get the stock happening fast enough. otherwise you may want some yourself. it appears that 100t neg will be the stock of choice.

oh yeah, once again i have a yahoo group for ds8. the collective of information and people wanting to a film order. go to yahoo groups and search for double super8 or email me and ill add you manually.

bloopoid@yahoo.com

DS8 looks like a great format for a beginner to learn on. Ill keep my eyes open for a DS8 camera, or perhaps convert a bolex. I have a thought about making my own filmstock too...

I sent an email over to jkcamera, about DS8 conversions. The email I got back says that he will convert bolex H8 rex 3 and rex 4 cameras to Ds8 for $445 plus return shipping.

Double 8 is a dinosaur.

PS. Most double 8 cameras suck. None were of the professional grade, unlike super-8.

The old double 8 may be a dinosaur,but there were some nice cameras made.Beaulieu and Bolex both made some decent double 8mm cameras and I have an old Yaschica that's not too bad (reflex viewing,backwind knob).The Bolex H8 is basically a full size 16mm camera modified for 8mm.There are some double8mm enthusiasts out there who swear by it.They argue the pressure plate issue and the fact that if it's all going to telecine,what's the main difference in image?Also a Bolex H8 can be easily converted to DS8.

I've got some standard 8 (double 8) footage from the early 60's that's made for an awesome transfer.

The old double 8 may be a dinosaur,but there were some nice cameras made.Beaulieu and Bolex both made some decent double 8mm cameras and I have an old Yaschica that's not too bad (reflex viewing,backwind knob).The Bolex H8 is basically a full size 16mm camera modified for 8mm.There are some double8mm enthusiasts out there who swear by it.They argue the pressure plate issue and the fact that if it's all going to telecine,what's the main difference in image?Also a Bolex H8 can be easily converted to DS8.

I've got some standard 8 (double 8) footage from the early 60's that's made for an awesome transfer.
I was actually talking about Double 8mm (regular), not Double S8, I think the nicer cameras were made for DS8, like the Scoopic.