I removed the old link. Here's the new one:

HERE'S THE FINAL CUT!!!! (http://loganlproductions.com/videos/collegelife.WMV)

Let me know what you think!!

DL'ing it now. Want me to recompress, Logan? 20mb a minute is kinda... big. Even for broadband.

(But then again, everything is big in Texas, right?) :P

Edit:

A/V files shifted to Logan's server... in theory.

Do what you can, man. I would greatly appreciate it...although it is a very adio-visual film, so as long as it can stay decent quality (decent is a relative term) :)

I'm actually testing it right now (I'm downloading it from my own site), and it still isn't done, so...yeah...it might be too big, hehe...

awesome man, I really liked it, and cheers to Zen for the extra compression i might have to get you to make my films web friendly once I get my site up and going ;)

once again, good work Logan

Logan, good job!

I like the creativity. The tee-shirt and whiteboard for opening credits was great. The very first shot (I don't want to create a "spoiler" by describing it) seemed a little out of place. Shouldn't that have happened after the party but before going to bed?

The musical scoring was really good - it complemented the action.

Some minor criticisms - the short dialogue during the party scene should have been boosted, it got lost. Whether that's due to compression (I watched the 18MB file) or not, I don't know.

Also, take a look at places to trim scenes. I noticed one candidate - the parking/running to the building scene could have had the tail end trimmed to keep up the pace.

The final scene had some fierce backlight, making the actor's face one big shadow. If you're in the mood to experiment, see if you can play with the brightness and contrast levels to correct it.

Other than that, great job!

Some minor criticisms - the short dialogue during the party scene should have been boosted, it got lost. Whether that's due to compression (I watched the 18MB file) or not, I don't know.

Also, take a look at places to trim scenes. I noticed one candidate - the parking/running to the building scene could have had the tail end trimmed to keep up the pace.

The final scene had some fierce backlight, making the actor's face one big shadow. If you're in the mood to experiment, see if you can play with the brightness and contrast levels to correct it.

Other than that, great job!

Thanks for the compliments.

I agree about the cutting of the parking lot. The final final cut will be different there as well as when he walks out the door; I'm going to cut the time so he instantly realizes he forgot his books.

I put the very first shot there just for shock value....kind of some sick humor for the youngin's. If anyone else feels that it's unnecessary/ out of place: let me know...that's me, by the way...I wanted to do a cameo, and what better cameo than that?

I made the dialogue as good as I could. I didn't have much to work with. I wanted it to seem more like a real party, but didn't have the time and I thought it would look better than it did...Daniel (the actor) liked it, though...so maybe it's alright.

I like the end sequence where Daniel's face is dark...when uncompressed, it looks much better.

Thankyou so much for the criticizm, SPaulovich!!

Oh...I misunderstood what you meant by "parking lot". I wasn't planning on recutting the school parking lot...but if more people mention that, I may consider it.

Zensteve...what'd you think?

Yes, pretty good Logan. :yes:

I don't think you were taking advantage of the manual white-balance settings. Purple porcelain bathroom? tsk tsk. :lol:

Nice opening shots, from the titles dropping down to camera swooping up... dorm-door credits on whiteboard (and shirt) good too.

The cuts with the "partiers" are kinda jumpy... maybe distract viewers from it being so obvious by doing those white flashes you see in edited single-camera interviews. (Or some cutaways to foxy co-eds. Rar! )

Music was okay for the most part... though it did seem odd having a techno-beat while the main guy was freshening up in the bathroom the next day. (white balance, again?)

Like the running to car/driving off cuts. While similar to the jump cuts above, no need to cover these ones up... implies speed.

Awesome parking job, btw.

End shot (that swivel) from the face to the door of the building.. liked that a lot. Mr P. already mentioned that long dark shot of shadows.

I think the only thing really missing from the story was the reason why it was so important to get up on time. It's easy enough to see why at the end, and it makes perfect sense. (Been there, done that :lol: )... but while you can see there is a sense of urgency to his haste in the morning, the viewer is left wondering what for.

That's not a big deal, really, as it wraps up fairly quickly. It's just a bit more complete with "goal" to root for as it unfolds.

________

Is good little short, Logan

(Now get to finish DON-2) http://www.stevenrichards.com/images/smiley_keke.gif

Thanks Zen!

About the bathroom: I made it purple in post (I also made the "party" scene blueish...it's hard to simulate night time AND indoors AND a party...I tried...I went for simulating blacklights)...and the next day, when it's yellow...well...that's actually how it was and I was going to fix it, but I kinda liked it. It looks like I did it in post, but the light was just yellow in there.

That's a good point about why he's in a hurry. I originally planned to have a shot of Daniel (or "Steve") print out a paper for his class, but forgot, haha. Then once I remembered that idea...it just kinda was too late (not really...but we'd already shot everything and I'm lazy).

By the way, I can't thank you enough for helping me out with the compression of the file. That good deed will bring you closer to Nirvana. Get it? ZENsteve...ZEN Buddhism....eh? Forget it.

Logan, you may not want to hear this, but ... I think you might have a future as a goat. That's right, Goat made a film that pretty much followed the same narrative (guy wakes up late, forgets books, gets to class to find out it is cancelled) when he was in film school. I let him tell you about it when he next posts.

Overall, I liked it except for a couple of things already mentioned (the parking/running into the building shot should have been chopped up like the running to the car/car pulling out shot; and the final shot of the student with no face). The music was well done, and the opening titles were cool.

Good Job!

Poke

That sucks. I knew my plot idea wasn't very creative, but I didn't expect it to already have been made. Oh well. Whatayagonnado?

Don't feel bad. Goat's a very funny guy. Take it as a sign of "Great Minds Think Alike".

Poke

Logan, you may not want to hear this, but ... I think you might have a future as a goat. That's right, Goat made a film that pretty much followed the same narrative (guy wakes up late, forgets books, gets to class to find out it is cancelled) when he was in film school. I let him tell you about it when he next posts.

Yeah, but yours is better though. We had to shoot like a 2 minute narrative without sound and edit it tape to tape. It's almost exactly like yours. And then the next semester, one of my teachers said "No films about bad roommates or being late for class. Those are way over done and they are usually really bad."....and that's when my dreams ended...........

How did you do the opening door shot? Was is just a tilt up on a tripod? Because it looks really smooth and robotic.

Good stuff Logan. I see you're a fan of the jump cut. Very Godard of you ;)

How did you do the opening door shot? Was is just a tilt up on a tripod? Because it looks really smooth and robotic.

Yeah. I used my usual LOGAN L Productions tag then, since it ends with a white screen, I taped a white moniter in total darkness with the exposure locked (all just on a tripod) and zoomed out, tilted up, etc.. edited those two pieces of footage together to make the first half.

For the door shot, I needed to start with total blackness (since that's what the TV shot ends with), so I just held a black notebook in front of the lense, which was facing straight down...just tilted the camera up using a tripod and then zoomed in...that's it. Of course, I had to tilt and zoom a few times to get it to look so smooth.

I like that sequence, and really wanted to explore my DPing/editing skills with this piece...that's why the story's so lame. Plus, I was expecting to use someone elses camera, so I wrote a concept that would be simple to film...

...my next film will have a much more creative story and actual characters...

...This is my third real film, about 6th if you include crappy home movies like Little Elm...I'm slowly learning that most films are not as amazing as the director invisions them in their head. It's a series of compromises...my new goal is to create a short that is as good as I invision it, OR better than I invision it.

Has anyone seen that documentary, "empire of Dreams"? It made me realize that even Star Wars, one of my favorite movies of all time, was pretty much a huge compromise and wasn't what Lucas invisioned...(that's probably explains the "Special Editions" and the new Special Special Special Editions that are coming out on DVD)...

Thanks Indie...I'm a fan of the jump cut, but only where it belongs...not every movie should be fast paced like this, but...yeah..

Hey Goat...post yours if you can. I want to see how similar it is...It'd be funny to see how much alike they are.

Actually, I need to find it...I'm not so sure I have it anymore. It was the very first thing I did for an intro class, so it wasn't a big deal.

.(that's probably explains the "Special Editions" and the new Special Special Special Editions that are coming out on DVD)...

No... I'm sorry. Nothing can explain some of the new changes he made. Justify this (http://www.ZenWeasel.com/temp/sw_02.jpg) one. http://www.stevenrichards.com/images/smiley_mono.gif

just saw this... being a dialupper sucks, big time. yeah liked the camera work, kinda. not too much of a story there but entertaining either way. Music was ok. But the camera work is just nice and creative flows pretty well. top stuff mate.

No... I'm sorry. Nothing can explain some of the new changes he made. Justify this (http://www.ZenWeasel.com/temp/sw_02.jpg) one. http://www.stevenrichards.com/images/smiley_mono.gifThat's HILARIOUS!!! HAHA!!

Yeah man...I never said I liked the changes...actually, I hated them (except in Empire, they didn't seem so bad)....my point was that George was trying to make the movie he originally envisioned. He was seeking the fullfilment of a perfect movie.

...Sadly, he just made those classics look like video games. Supposedly the rererererecut editions for DVD are better????I don't trust him????but I DO think they will be a little better. I hope.

just saw this... being a dialupper sucks, big time. yeah liked the camera work, kinda. not too much of a story there but entertaining either way. Music was ok. But the camera work is just nice and creative flows pretty well. top stuff mate.

Thanks, man.

Was confused what the additional characters at the start added and also what they were doing/talking about (aside from being drunk). I liked the parallel parking part the best. Overall, I prefer "OU Uncovered", seemed more thought-out than "College Life". Also it seems your shots have better color and framing than in OU and with the money-eating film, or maybe that's the mescalin kicking in...

Seriously, it was good though, I stayed until the end.

Has anyone seen that documentary, "empire of Dreams"? It made me realize that even Star Wars, one of my favorite movies of all time, was pretty much a huge compromise and wasn't what Lucas invisioned...(that's probably explains the "Special Editions" and the new Special Special Special Editions that are coming out on DVD)...

I assume you saw it on A&E the other night ... I watched it as well. Very good, very comprehensive. I especially liked how they went into Lucas' battles with the DGA and the WGA; those are little known facts.

Poke

Nice job, I laughed so hard! I just finished college so I know the feeling. Almost everything in that flick happened to me. This is great! The only thing I would change was at the end when the camera rolls around to reveal the note. You might get more punch to your punch-line if you show him run across the lawn and then show a quick shot of face reaction then cut to the door. Or you could use the roll shot but roll it around a little faster. Just an idea. I really like this one! :clap:

I like this site. It's pretty funny. It says all you need to know about short films. Your film was OK. I thought you lingered too long on too many shots. As mentioned in another post, I couldn't here any of the dialog at the begining.

http://filmmaker.com/DUMPS.html

It is a very specific list of common mistakes and trends which we've seen in crappy student films again and again at screening after screening.

The ones that apply to youe film: (A few apply to my first film also)

- Bad Audio, Synthesizer (the "porn" soundtrack)

- The One Joke Film

- The "Walk away from the Camera"

- Shooting into Mirrors

I really need to fix the audio. The music's too loud and the dialogue is too quiet. Thanks guys.

Dudebro: yeah, I need to put these newfound production values toward something more well written.

Poke: Yeah. Saw it on A&E. I liked it A LOT. I sort of wish it dealt with some negative things that happened...like people's reactions to Lucas' newer movies. That would heve made the doc WAY more interesting. I want to see George's reactions to all the bitching.

http://filmmaker.com/DUMPS.html

I'll say this - those that can't do criticize relentlessly those who can.

Sure, there are things that seem tired after viewing them numerous times, but that doesn't mean they don't serve a purpose. So many of the "shots" they list as student film no-nos are classic shots that are still used effectively today.

Poke

That site has some good points, but I think the zoom in dolly out is a great tool and hard to do. same with camera in the trashcan, etc.

I think: You can't rely on cool editing/camera work, but you still gotta keep every shot interesting. This stuff may be "cliche", but when there are millions of films made every year, some stuff is going to be used over and over. Plus, filmmakers notice this stuff, but average people usually think it adds to the films.

filmmakers notice this stuff, but average people usually think it adds to the films.


I guess it depends on who your audience is. Most (obviously not all) short films are made for to be "calling cards" to get other work. When this is the case other filmmakers are the ones that are looking at it.

Just to clear any confussion, I wasn't "ragging" on your short. I just found that site after doing my first film and laughed at the things on that list that I did without relizing how cliche they were. I posted it to be entertaining AND informative. There were a things i liked about your short and things I didn't.

okay, the person from the dumps thing really gets to me, he/she's acting as if their word is final and if we go against it, our film will be utter shit. Where does he/she get the right to do that? i hate it when people mouth off and say that kinda stuff. The hitchcock zoom, though it can be used a bit too much sometimes, he/she's basically saying that no matter how interesting your way of using it may be, you should never use merely because it has been used by others. And that Kung Fu crack really set me off, fair enough, i've never seen it, but that's not my point, i'm pissed that he/she is saying that just because the dream sequence has been used badly before, that it is now and forever will be horrible and therefore never touched with even a 10 foot pole.

from what i gather, they're trying to say that we shouldn't use our imaginations but rather follow their guidelines and thusly make a thousand films which are more or less the same thing, which he/she can then use as examples on his list.

god, that list just really got to me... i need to go cool off...

okay, the person from the dumps thing really gets to me, he/she's acting as if their word is final and if we go against it, our film will be utter shit.


What i think they are trying to say is that most student films suck (something I agree with) and that most of those sucky student films use a lot of the devices listed.
When making a student film the goal is to "stand out" from the rest. By using these cliches you're just going to look like everyone else.
I've seen a lot of bad student films and almost all of them have used stuff listed on that list.

It doesn't say that there is no place in cinema for this stuff (hell Tarantino uses most of them), it just says don't use them for the sake of using them. Use them when they are called for.

I've seen a lot of bad student films and almost all of them have used stuff listed on that list.

One thing I didn't like about that list is how it excuses Zooming, but everything else is bad. I've seen a lot of bad student films as well, and the ones that are the worst are the ones that zoom in and out of everything like it's a home movie. I don't see why zooming get's a pass just because you have good zooms in film. That arguement could be made for every technique on the list.

I appreciate that list and what tron was saying...it's true...I stand behind some of my stuff, but things like the plot, I really agree with. I need to stand back and look at my next script. I need to be more original; more creative. I'm sort of dissapointed in myself actually...but I'll learn in time. I do like my own camera work in this film...so I at least can know that I'm getting better in SOME ways...

...can't thank y'all enough for the critiques!! The final cut will be much better...it won't have new footage or anything, but it will be better edited. Thanks again.

What about fun? Experimenting and Learning? Isn't that what it's all about? I think some people need to lighten up. Enjoy yourself, there’s no right or wrong way to be creative. If it works for your story then use it. Who cares about some stupid list made by who?

Peace,
Toxzy :grrr:

What about fun? Experimenting and Learning? Isn't that what it's all about? I think some people need to lighten up. Enjoy yourself, there’s no right or wrong way to be creative. If it works for your story then use it. Who cares about some stupid list made by who?

Peace,
Toxzy :grrr:

damn straight! i was getting worked up about that list but bugger it! i'm doing this for the enjoyment i get out of it, not because i want to make things that fit in with others ideals of filmmaking.

well said Chris

I do what I do for several reasons...I like the satisfaction of having made a great film...that means different things to different people. To me it simply means that I like it, but sometimes others can see faults in my art that I can't because I work so closely with it...I don't let critics get to me...if they have a point, I listen...if they are just ranting and obviously making little/no sense...then who cares what they think.

Good words from Christopher.

Filmmaking isn't about "do and don't" lists, it's about visually telling a story. To do this there are many tools at your disposal, some work for YOUR story, some don't. You learn this over time with experience.

No... I'm sorry. Nothing can explain some of the new changes he made. Justify this (http://www.ZenWeasel.com/temp/sw_02.jpg) one. http://www.stevenrichards.com/images/smiley_mono.gif

What about this (http://www.michalak.org/f13/sw/imgs/jason.jpg) one off the new DVDs???

Poke

Here's the "Final" cut: CLICK HERE. (http://loganlproductions.com/videos/collegelife.WMV)

As always, I will continue to tweak this movie until I die, but this is what I am submitting to festivals right now. I have corrected the sound, changed some music and how it's used, etc. It's VERY similar to the first version I exhibited here, but if you would still like to watch the final cut, then let me know what you think! Thanks!

By the way, it's Windows Media Video and 12MB (Quicktime sucks, and yet it's what everyone has...sorry!)

Well, I still wish you'd been able to get some spoken dialogue in about needing to get to class. The overlayed explanation is okay... just not as good.

The rapid cuts you do from the time he wakes up work a lot better now.

Quicktime sucks

I'd like to hear a little about why you think so.

I think quicktime sucks because with Windows media, I can ALWAYS get excellent quality files and they are still small files. Quicktime is just harder to accomplish this with.

Of course, when I say "Quicktime Sucks", I'm just meaning that Windows is better in my opinion...and it sucks that quicktime is more widespread.

I think quicktime sucks because with Windows media, I can ALWAYS get excellent quality files and they are still small files. Quicktime is just harder to accomplish this with.

I've always experience just the opposite.

Well, I have a PC first of all...I don't know if you do, but maybe that's why Windows Media is so much better for me.

It could also be that I use Windows Movie Maker to compress my files. This program, while a shitty editor, compresses awesomely...just check out the final cut (JUST 12MB) (http://loganlproductions.com/videos/collegelife.WMV) to see the quality picture AND great sound.

When ZenSteve compressed my quicktime files a while back, the 18MB version was WAY inferior in picture and completely retarded audiowise...it sounded like the whole movie took place in a small room and the mic was muffled. With the new Windows file I have up that is actually SMALLER, the picture and sound are great and ideal for viewing.

I can also view Windows fullscreen on my computer and quicktime can go ALMOST fullscreen, but there is still a tool bar at the top, along with silver boarders. Now, if you tell me "Logan, you're not using Quicktime right!" Well, then that just means that Windows Media Player is more user friendly.

P.S. Let me know what you think of the final cut!!

Hi Logan... I just watched your 'final cut' although I haven't seen the original so I can' t compare. I reckon the picture quality is good and your camera work and editing all feels pretty tight. The dialogue at the start was a bit soft for me or even seemed a bit out of sync but that might just be my computer! The parking was my favorite bit. Overall good job in the filming department but thought the script could be a bit more interesting. Oh and I like the opening credits on the t-shirt and door etc.

Uhhhhh .. the only thing I noticed different from the first version I watched and the Final Cut was the Text on Screen "LATE FOR CLASS" when the alarm went off (which was unnecessary). Everything else seemed the same to me.

Poke

Thanks guys.

Poke: The intro music build up was a different sound, I tightened the editing, and at the end (when the credits roll), the music blares instead of starting of slowly and then building up....minor stuff. I also fixed the audio so that all songs were the same volume and did some ghetto foley.

I don't know why, but the "Late for class" thing does something for me...just something to look at I guess...(and, of course, it explains why Steve is in such a hurry)...

Drummergirl: I agree with everything you said. The dialogue is in sync in my computer, though.

Poke: The intro music build up was a different sound, I tightened the editing, and at the end (when the credits roll), the music blares instead of starting of slowly and then building up....minor stuff. I also fixed the audio so that all songs were the same volume and did some ghetto foley.

Okay, I was thinking you added a scene with a CGI Jabba the Hut or something.

I don't know why, but the "Late for class" thing does something for me...just something to look at I guess...(and, of course, it explains why Steve is in such a hurry)...

I don't think it needs explaining, BUT it is your film and sometimes little quirks like that can make a film succeed where it might have failed without said quirk.

Poke