My friend showed me this site of a contriversal film thats kind of like f911.


just thought you might want to download and watch it in high definition.


PS.. i dont believe in this conspiracy stuff but its kind of interesting to watch


i guess it would be considered an indie film

http://100777.com/doc/30

That's quite a long movie to stream...

download it. yeah, you should have broadband. but download the high res file.

BTW. it seems creditable but things in it make no sense to me.

Im sorry to think my country (USA) has become devided to this point.

Its frightening to think that someone like Michael Moore has been proven to be lying and that he's in a large lawsuit right now.

and to think i started buying into these conspiracies for a moment.

Bush may be a bit corrupted as far as allowing illegal immagrants into this country so they can have cheaper labor but it blows me away to think that our CIA would go this far. as in killing our own citizens.

Plus in the movie it talks about how an iraqi is seen with Tim McVeigh. but where the heck is the logic in that when Tim McVeigh told reporters that he did it alone. if i was involved i would tell the news everything.

so i think this guy is just trying to make money or sell a book.

but it does seem believable and thats the power of the media.

to bad. greed is destroying America.

Sorry guys, i know this isnt a conspiracy site but this is a pretty Entertaining as far as how its pieced together. its a low budget production but im watching it more from a learning experience of film editing and how he manipulates the viewer.

I tried downloading it twice. Kept getting cut off at the 100mb mark.

Michael Moore has been proven to be lying and that he's in a large lawsuit right now

Links, please.

Btw, Viewfinder Forum (default OT) might be a better place for this thread... especially when politics are likely to be raised :)

OK.. you guys can move the thread over there. Sorry.. i wasnt sure what forum.

This was talked about on fox news and some other sites.

Just Google David Bossie sues michael moore and you'll find all kinds of sources.

Its not the first time i've heard michael bend the truth a bit to sell his story. He did a nice job on raping Charleton Hestons image. Charleton Heston had planned the visit to Flint Mi 8 months before that young girl was shot in which he tried to accuse Mr Heston of setting up a NRA ralley during an insensitive moment.

yeah, move this thread :D

Just Google David Bossie sues michael moore and you'll find all kinds of sources.

It's actually much more informative to just google 'David Bossie'. His record speaks for itself. He's a hack who's main goal in life seems to be the destruction of any moderate or left leaning thought in America. He was involved with the creation of the Willie Horton ads, the Gennifer Flowers 'scandal', the initial Whitewater investigations, etc.

Now he's decided to give Michael Moore some free publicity.

Glad you brought up the cliinton admin.

Why is it michael moore didnt talk much about clintons security advisers and how they lacked intelligence information when it came to the "Accidental" bombing of the Chinese Embasy in Yugoslavia or the Accident bombing of a bus full of bosnians when they were trying to flee the air raids or how Clinton decided to bomb a medicin factory in Sudan and killed an innocent Janitor during the Monica Lewinski hearing.

Im not saying Bush is innocent. hes guilty of making deals with big corperations and using American tax dollars to make contract deals for a post iraq war. I've known about that. He also wants to flood America with cheap labor from mexico so the average contracter or house buildier in America cant find work.

But he is obviouslly making these movies for both profit and to also give an edge for the democrats this next election.

bottom line, he didnt go after clinton as he is bush. Whatever happen to the whitewater case or whatever happened to the Vince Foster coverup?


Anyways I only wanted people to see the movie linked on here. I had no problem getting it myself though the speed was only 77kb/s. maybe its just being leeched to death since it is a popular site. so try downloading before going to bed tonight.

bottom line, he didnt go after clinton as he is bush. Whatever happen to the whitewater case or whatever happened to the Vince Foster coverup?
Umm... It seems you don't read the papers or watch the news...

Bill Clinton is no longer president. He was limited to 2 terms, & his last one expired the morning of 1/20/00. It would be pointless for Michael Moore to make a doc trying to sway an election against him after he's already left office.

Whitewater was exhaustively investigated by Congress, Ken Starr (for 7 years at a cost of $70-80 million of my tax dollars), and every major news organization in North America. None of them found any evidence of any wrong doing. Even Ken Starr said so in his final report.

And what Vince Foster coverup? His suicide was investigated by everyone & their uncle at the time, under the blinding white lights of the media. There was certainly no evidence of a cover up that I saw.

May I recommend a pair of books by David Brock? He used to be a writer for American Spectator; he was instrumental in pushing these stories, and was one of the founders of the "Arkansas Project" that focused on digging up dirt on the Clintons. Go to Amazon or Barnes & Nobel, & search for 'Blinded by the Right' and 'The Republican Noise Machine'.

I'm only a little ways through this movie, but I can tell you that this guy is just like Moore. What he's saying is the truth...but the way he words it is deceptive.

Examples (which I already knew before watching this): The Government technically DID bring terrorists into the country and DID train them....but They didn't KNOW these people had plans to do what they did...to the government, these terrorists were just immigrants who wanted to learn how to fly. Now, that is still very suspicious; but since there was no patriot act (yes I AM advocating the Patriot act), there was little to warrant an investigation of these people.


...by the way...what the HELL is wrong with the Patriot act anyway?!

I don't like Bush and I don't like 90% of what he does, but why does everyone complain about the F&^%!@ING patriot act?!?! WHO CARES?!

So the government can see what I check out at the library...okay. I don't have a problem with that. They do own the library after all. The government can also tap in on my phone calls...okay. I'm not a drug dealer (or a terrorist). I have nothing to hide...why would I care?!

People act like the government has the resources to moniter EVERYTHING. They don't!!! Even if they did..what's the big deal? People only care if they have something to hide...which means they probably should be arrested for one reason or another.

So: A. This film is interesting, but it's just another filmmaker trying to capitolize on fear, and B. The Patriot act is fine! There is nothing wrong with it for all I know.

bottom line, he didnt go after clinton as he is bush. Whatever happen to the whitewater case or whatever happened to the Vince Foster coverup?
Umm... It seems you don't read the papers or watch the news...

Bill Clinton is no longer president. He was limited to 2 terms, & his last one expired the morning of 1/20/00. It would be pointless for Michael Moore to make a doc trying to sway an election against him after he's already left office.

.


I read news sources all the time and to be honest the information in your average American news paper isn't the best place to get it. American media likes to candy coat the truths.

You're telling me the obvious here. I know clinton isnt president and I know he served 2 terms. I dont want to be rude but I dont see the relivence in that statement/rebuttal.

Michael Moore is pro liberal. The question is why didnt he make a documentary film about clinton and all the madness and conspiracies that surrounded his years in powers? Because he liked Clinton?


I agree he did some stuff on clinton in Bowling for Columbine but that was obviouslly to fill space for his movie. Damage was already done for clinton so Michael Moore just pointed some stuff out like the bombing of the Sudan medical factory. big whoop. He should have layed the Smack down on clinton but that would be counter productive for him as a fellow libatarian.


I'll check out those books when i go to Barnes and noble this weekend.

...by the way...what the HELL is wrong with the Patriot act anyway?!

.

Me personally is the fact that they feel for any reason im doing something wrong that they dont need a Warrent to hack into my home computer.

or even enter my house.

But as far as putting cameras on every street corner, I have nothing to hide and I might feel more comfortable knowing that someone is less likely to rob me.

But the Question is where will this go? Will it snowball and will my children be forced to get implants of chips one day? Or will I?

And the whole thumbprint thing sucked.


Also, We live in America. If a cop pulls you over for say swerving or something in your car he has the right to check your papers and question you. You have the right to refuse but you are place under custody of the state until your lawyer shows up. thats a hassle. So I never deny them that request. But if Im pulled over at a checkpoint I feel like its Russia. Thats a police state right there. This is America.

You might say "Well we're trying to get DUI cases off the road" and thats something i dont have a problem with BUT we dont spend this attention on other potential crimes. We dont question people walking into a store waiting to see if they're going to rob it. So the patriot act needs to be modified a bit and end any future chance of it snowballing into a police state.

Just curious what you think Thomas Jefferson might think of this?

I have no idea what Jefferson would think, and I won't speak for him...but I just think that that act is the least of our worries, yet everyone concentrates on it.

I DO see why it makes people nervous, but I really believe that that was enacted with good intentions (unlike the war with Iraq...a freakin WAR!!!).

Oh well, I suppose it's always better to be skeptical than not anyway. :)

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin.

http://www.stevenrichards.com/images/smiley_patriot.gif

Woah!

Is that a real quote?

Again...Zensteve proves that he is the King of all quotes.

I'm fascinated by the defense of the PATRIOT Act by everyone who "doesn't have anything to hide." I, too, have nothing to hide (that I know of), but I still don't appreciate the government being able to watch my every move, whether by checking my library records or placing a camera on every streetcorner. I don't think it makes me any safer, and I can't say I believe all the information that can be collected by such methods is intended to be used in Our Best Interests.

I suppose that's the real lesson to take away from Fahrenheit 9/11 and other incendiary leftist media: the government doesn't have the best interests of the American people at heart; it has its own best interests, and the interests of its most fervent (monetary) supporters, at heart.

And before anyone tries the "A camera on every streetcorner would make me feel a lot safer because I have nothing to hide" defense of the PATRIOT Act again, I pose this question: are we THAT interested in living out "1984" in order to see just how prescient Orwell actually was?

(By the way, sorry I haven't actually checked the stream for this movie yet. I may have more specific comments after I do.)

I have no idea what Jefferson would think, and I won't speak for him...but I just think that that act is the least of our worries, yet everyone concentrates on it.

I DO see why it makes people nervous, but I really believe that that was enacted with good intentions (unlike the war with Iraq...a freakin WAR!!!).

Oh well, I suppose it's always better to be skeptical than not anyway. :)

Thats a good answer. I have no real idea what Jefferson would say to anything. But based on the historical statements he, Washington and Franklin made in the past it seems they would have a Huge issue with a police state since they faught to free themselves from one. The British imposed marcial law on the colonialist and i think they got tired of not just paying taxes but answering up the their law.

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin.

http://www.stevenrichards.com/images/smiley_patriot.gif

That quote (though worded slightly different) is in the video i linked for you.


it seems the creator of this video (Alex Jones) wants Americans to fight back. I dont know if he is inciting a civil war or civil unrest but he really is all worked up.

Not the best sound editing skills. it wanes a bit.


but Entertaining none the less.

I think that a big problem in America is our two party system.

If one election, someday, the two candidates are affiliated with each other somehow...then it wouldn't realy be an election, would it?

This two party system is why Bush is president. Most people I know that voted for Bush were actually voting against Gore. (Bush and Gore had a lot of the same views, by the way)

If Gore was president, he would have continued Clinton's shady bombing campaigns (among other things)...does this make sense to y'all?

I don't think that Nader's crazy ass is the answer either, by the way.

It's like we have different administrations every 4-8 years, but are they REALLY different? Or are they just continuations of the last, with the same agendas, but different faces?

see what I mean? This is what allows the corruption to continue...we need more choices, and more importantly, better choices!!!

The system is already set up to allow for this. The American people just need to get the mentality that voting for a third/fourth party isn't wasting your vote.

...and we need to somehow get more good, or at least decent, people into politics...seriously!!!

I don't think that Nader's crazy ass is the answer either, by the way.

No, Nader lost a lot of credibility when he decided to run this year, much less when he started accepting help from the Republicans...

I say abolish the party system and let every candidate run on his or her own personal platform with a party distinction or "party ideals" to contend with. Make their campaign information available on websites for widespread public dissemination. And then set aside some of the tax dollars currently being funneled into defense spending and allow it to be used for public campaigns (in capped amounts) once the candidates have been whittled down to a manageable size.

Oh, and get rid of the electoral college, too...

The two party system isn't a beneficial system in any way.

I don't feel too strongly about this, but allow me to just explain MY understanding of why there is an electoral college:

...basically, it keeps New York, Texas, and Claifornia from choosing our presidents.

If there was no electoral college, then VERY few demographics would have any say in our leadership. The college gives the Alaskans, Montanans, farmers, etc. of this country a small chance to make a difference in the outcome. It sort of balances out the highly populated areas of the country, because, at least in my observances, people from the same area tend to think alike.

No electoral college=Californians, New Yorkers, and Texans choosing our leadership.

Do you see now how it CAN be advantageous to the nation?

I don't feel too strongly about this, but allow me to just explain MY understanding of why there is an electoral college:

...basically, it keeps New York, Texas, and Claifornia from choosing our presidents.

If there was no electoral college, then VERY few demographics would have any say in our leadership. The college gives the Alaskans, Montanans, farmers, etc. of this country a small chance to make a difference in the outcome. It sort of balances out the highly populated areas of the country, because, at least in my observances, people from the same area tend to think alike.

No electoral college=Californians, New Yorkers, and Texans choosing our leadership.

Do you see now how it CAN be advantageous to the nation?

Yeah, But you know what sucks about this. Is how Californians will know who is elected before we even close the polls.

They need to not let this information out untill all votes are counted. They said Al Gore won and people were turning away from the polls in California because they figured there was no point in voting. Then all of a sudden a reverse decision was made and I bet you anything had the announcment not been made that people in california who gave up may have in fact voted for Al Gore. Since California is a Democratic state now.

That is an EXTREMELY good point.

I forgot about that...

...but that could be solved by closing all the polls at the same "real" time (i.e. Western at 4, Mountain at 5, Central at 6, Eastern at 7)

...maybe...but didn't Gore win California in 2000? ...If so, then the electoral college would have actually helped that state. Seems like it was Gore...

Again...Zensteve proves that he is the King of all quotes.

Oh yeah?

"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy." -- Ernest Benn

"You know what's interesting about Washington? It's the kind of place where second-guessing has become second nature." -- George W. Bush

Poke

I tried downloading it twice. Kept getting cut off at the 100mb mark.

"They" must be stopping you....

This is some funny reading material (http://educate-yourself.org/nwo/nwopopcontrol.shtml).

That is an EXTREMELY good point.

I forgot about that...

...but that could be solved by closing all the polls at the same "real" time (i.e. Western at 4, Mountain at 5, Central at 6, Eastern at 7)

...maybe...but didn't Gore win California in 2000? ...If so, then the electoral college would have actually helped that state. Seems like it was Gore...

You're right he did. But i was watching something on CNN the other day when Al Gore was announced he Won because some reporter on CNN "screwed up" so all the other networks were saying the same thing.

So what happened was during this 30 or 40 minute period you had alot of people turning away from the polls. I believe it was only about 8:30 at night which meant california and arizona and nevada, oregon and so on all had another 3 and a half hours to go to the polling booths.

then it was announced that Bush won and all hell broke loose. I thought that was one of the most entertaining moments (as far as politics go) in my life.

Though I voted for bush and really felt Al Gore wouldnt have made a Good president, Im sort of Ashamed of myself and wish (Though it wouldnt have helped) I had voted Ralph Nader. I think I will this time. Everyone should vote Green this year. If All Moderate Republicans like myself and all Democrats voted green we would win. Then demand real changes on finding alternative fuel sources and tell the oil companies and the middle east to kiss our ass.

if it were only that easy.

I like the green's platforms, but Nader's ideas seem a little crack pot to me sometimes...They're either not plausable or not practical...I'm pretty sure I'm voting for Kerry (actually against the others...sad).

I'm pretty republican on most issues, but the party I agree with the most is the libertarian...they need some more politicians on their side!!!

Yeah, I rethought my statement and I agree with what you're saying about a police state. But thats what we live in.

But face it, Global Corporation is doing more policing of us then our Government can.

The problem here is Who really is our Government now, The Poeple of Washington (For those of us who are American) or City Bank?

If Paper money is no longer used and we all use plastic in the future its going to get pretty annoying when some places demand you show ID just to buy a Hamburger or candy bar.

its part of the system to know what you like so they can bombard you with product information that appeals to you most. Plus it makes a nice log of who you are and where you been.

If Paper money is no longer used and we all use plastic in the future its going to get pretty annoying when some places demand you show ID just to buy a Hamburger or candy bar.

As a person who had his credit card information stolen, I appreciate it when clerks ask to see my ID when using my credit card.

Why is it michael moore didnt talk much about clintons security advisers and how they lacked intelligence information when it came to the "Accidental" bombing of the Chinese Embasy in Yugoslavia or the Accident bombing of a bus full of bosnians when they were trying to flee the air raids or how Clinton decided to bomb a medicin factory in Sudan and killed an innocent Janitor during the Monica Lewinski hearing.


Actually, he does. Watch Bowling for Columbine.

And as for a reason that the patriot act is wrong, how about this:

People can be arrested without charges, not be allowed to consult with a lawyer, or anything else constituting due process. As the law is written now, Bush could have all registered Democrats locked up right before the election. Not that it would happen. Bu thet situation could happen TODAY and the U.S. Governemnt would stand behind it.

Imagine if Martin Luther King had been arrested because they thought he could be dangerous, given his criminal history due to his non-violent protest?

What if, instead of open debates, we just locked up "dengerous thinkers"?

That scariest part to me is that, if that happened, the majority of the country would probably stand behind it.

If Paper money is no longer used and we all use plastic in the future its going to get pretty annoying when some places demand you show ID just to buy a Hamburger or candy bar.

As a person who had his credit card information stolen, I appreciate it when clerks ask to see my ID when using my credit card.

I understand your point, but think about how thats exactly what they want you to think.


and the weird thing is, who is to say that someone in Government or perhaps a secret group within the Government doesnt start stealing everyones ID and make bogus purchases so they can put everyone in a state of fear and then everyone will demand ID checks on every sale.

This is the problem I have. We are losing our privacy more and more with different approaches.

Why is it michael moore didnt talk much about clintons security advisers and how they lacked intelligence information when it came to the "Accidental" bombing of the Chinese Embasy in Yugoslavia or the Accident bombing of a bus full of bosnians when they were trying to flee the air raids or how Clinton decided to bomb a medicin factory in Sudan and killed an innocent Janitor during the Monica Lewinski hearing.


Actually, he does. Watch Bowling for Columbine.

I did. And you're right, he does. But thats not damaging. I think he just threw it in to look fair and ballanced. He is a major supporter of the clinton/gore party.

He could do a whole series on Clinton. there are like 40 well known conspiracies (Which basically all this stuff he did on bush is.. most of it anyways).

Like Him talking about Fosters suicide, the White water scandall, Monika Lewenski and the 10 other ladies who came forth and said he fondled them while serving in the whitehouse.

I mean most guys would go to jail for a long time if a bunch of women said that he was groping them.


I think clinton would make a Good Mafia Don, because he seems to be like teflon when being accused of something.

And as for a reason that the patriot act is wrong, how about this:

People can be arrested without charges, not be allowed to consult with a lawyer, or anything else constituting due process. As the law is written now, Bush could have all registered Democrats locked up right before the election. Not that it would happen. Bu thet situation could happen TODAY and the U.S. Governemnt would stand behind it.

Imagine if Martin Luther King had been arrested because they thought he could be dangerous, given his criminal history due to his non-violent protest?

What if, instead of open debates, we just locked up "dengerous thinkers"?

That scariest part to me is that, if that happened, the majority of the country would probably stand behind it.
You know this is interesting. I was surfing the cable tv and some christian group was having a talk show and one of them said "My wife and I lived in Canada during the 1990s and that in Canada it is illegal for people to be open about their hate towards minorities or homosexuals" and said that he actually saw 2 ministers being arrested during a ralley for quoting from the bible.

Now I dont live in Canada and I dont know how much of the truth this guy was spilling out. Perhaps the minister said "All faggots should die now" that would probably violate a law in the US as well. but to say "God hates fags, Homosexuals are unnatural" or wishing death on people without intent to do harm is not illegal and is protected by the free speech ammendment.

But, if there is at least some truths that canada doesnt have the same liberal speech laws as America, then we are surely headed that way.

wishing death on people without intent to do harm

Voodoo Lite? :lol:

LOL@voodoo lite.

hey its the badger guy.


Mushroom mushroom

I understand your point, but think about how thats exactly what they want you to think.

Ok....who specifically are you referring to when you say "they?" Who are "they" and why do "they" care that I show my ID?

I'm sorry, but I don't understand this ID paranoia. I could care less that a 17 year old making minimum wage is asking for my ID when I use a check card to buy a hamburger(it never happens anyway). Unless he's Rainman and can memorize my name and address and come to kill me, I don't see any danger or harm, or feel violated that someone is verifying that the name on my check card matches me. In fact, on the back of my credit cards, I write "See ID."

I think the only reason you should fear showing your ID is if you have a warrant on you, or you’re trying to do something illegal, or you're trying to pass off as someone else. I'm law abiding (besides speeding), so I'm not in fear of showing my ID.