View Full Version : HDV, Questions, etc [long]

07-10-2004, 07:52 PM
Greetings everyone,

I have several thoughts and a few questions so please hang in there with me ;):

I recently ran across this which was new information to me. I just wish I knew when this thing might be available.

If rumors are true the camera will have the following specs:

* 3 CCDs, each 1/3" at a native 1440x1080 resolution
* Can record 1440x1080/60i (29.97 fps) or digitally downconvert from the native resolution to 1280x720 at 59.94 fps or good ol' SD
* No real word on 24fps
* VX2100-style manual controls:
o Two neutral density filters
o A real manual focus (no "endless ring")
o Manual iris thumbwheel (seen in the picture near the front of the camera down low)
* 12X Zoom
* 4:2:0 color
* Data rate is, as expected, using all of the 25Mbps DV bandwidth
* Shipping by the end of 2005
* List price for the pro unit around $5000

This thing is looking pretty darn nice to me (screw 24p - it doesn't work at this low a level with video and 30p is a better look for video anyway. That said, why does everyone seem to cast out DV's good points in an attempt to make it look like film?)

I am also hearing rumors about 4 layel DVD's being tested (freaking 46gigs!) - Anyone know anthing about this?

Anyone know anything about the new Kinetta? Particuarily price? I'm very interested in this new camera - very. Here are the specs:

* Talk about latitude: 10-bit uncompressed 4:4:4 (!)
* 1920x1080, with up to 60 progressive frames per second! That is 33% more pixels than CineAlta!
* Can be upgraded with future higher resolution CCDs and CMOS sensors, past SuperHD to 16 megapixels!
* Low center of gravity and great ergonomics
* Color OLED viewfinder for crisp, bright, and accurate images
* Uses inexpensive PL-mount lenses
* Recording magazine is pretty amazing as it can be separated from the camera, connected with various lengths of optical cable up to over a half mile long!. At 24fps it is likely capturing 134 megabytes of video data every second! (40 times more than the data rate of DV). Features are assumed to be:
o An array of standard 2.5" hard drives for the fastest, most cost-effective, and most reliable storage possible
o Each magazine holds almost a terabyte of data using hardware-based data striping for maximum performance. It is expected that larger magazines will be available in the future.
* Outputs either dual-link HD-SDI (4:4:4) or HD-SDI (4:2:2). Can also churn out standard data files.
* A real hand-cranked speed adjustment up to the limit of the sensor (currently 60fps). 8 frames captured with every revolution.
* Two modes: Cine Mode that varies both frame rate and exposure to produce slight variations per frame, resulting in more of a cinematic look, and Ramp Mode that keeps exposure constant.
* In the audio department:
o 4 mic preamps built-in with phantom power
o 8 digital inputs, making 12 tracks total
o 24-bit, 96Khz sampling!
* No white balance, black level, or other CC since you do all that in post, anyway

Has anyone here used the single chip JVC HDV camcorder (and I can't for the life of me figure out what sort of manual capabilities - if any - this camera has)? I hear that the HD mode more than makes up for the lack of 3ccd's (ie that the picture quality is just as good...).

That said, what exactly is the difference between a High Definition camera and the various ENG cameras that usually shoot somewhere around 800 tv lines? Are not TV lines limited by pixel count? Assuming a camera has 410,000pixels per CCD that easily adds up to more than a million pixels while the JVC HDV claims it has 1.18 million pixels.... (my panasonic PV-GS70 has 42,000 pixels per CCD and only has 525 lines...)

I think that's it for now :D

07-10-2004, 07:58 PM
Oh forgot one thing:

Regarding the supposed Canon XL2: anyone have an opinion on what this may present to the indie crowd? Anyone think this thing actually exists?

07-11-2004, 01:31 PM
Looks to me like the Kinetta is just a prototype at this point. I didn't see anything on Kinetta's website to tell me otherwise. Likewise for the Arri HD prototype.

Panavision, otoh, has announced production on their Genesis HD camera for the end of the year. That camera is 1920X1080 (with the same image area as super 35!), 24P, dual SDI output, with a Panavision super 35 mount.

07-11-2004, 05:00 PM
Panavision, otoh, has announced production on their Genesis HD camera for the end of the year. That camera is 1920X1080 (with the same image area as super 35!), 24P, dual SDI output, with a Panavision super 35 mount.

Holy crap....


Regarding some of my questions - I think I found some answers and figured I would share with everyone else :).

1) My 420,000 pixel 3ccd camera only has 420,000 pixels (And not all are usable). It occured to me that all three ccd's are overlayed directly upon each other so no pixel benefit is gained.

2) The camera's that claim "700 lines" are actually "700 vertical rather than horizontal lines (ie we have 1280x720 HD and 700x525 SD). The tricky marketing people just failed to specify which direction they were going...

3) Tv lines and pixels cannot be compared in any respect. I realized how stupid this question was once I sat down and thought about it.

07-11-2004, 09:42 PM
Well Sony was showing off their new HDV camera prototype at the NAB this past April, they had a live demo going and it looks pretty cool

Here's a link on the cam.

07-12-2004, 12:52 PM
Holy crap....

And I forgot to mention the variable frame rates- it can be both over & under cranked.

Holy crap indeed!

07-13-2004, 08:46 AM
The XL2 has just been announced!